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Lewis Howes"This Is How To STOP Your Partner From CHEATING..." | Esther Perel
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Chapter summaries
Why Infidelity Needs Rethinking
Lewis Howes welcomes Esther Perel back to discuss her new book, The State of Affairs. Perel explains that roughly 80% of audiences say they've been affected by infidelity, yet the topic stays silent, shrouded in secrecy and shame.
- •Perel says about 80% of audience members worldwide raise their hand when asked if infidelity has affected them
- •Infidelity touches children, siblings, friends and the third person in the triangle
- •Perel has worked with hundreds of couples shattered by affairs and thinks we can do better
- •Understanding infidelity is not justifying it
Defining Infidelity: Secrecy, Emotion and Sexual Alchemy
Perel explains that the definition of infidelity keeps expanding and offers three elements: secrecy, emotional involvement, and sexual alchemy. She stresses that most affairs are about desire rather than sex itself.
- •Definitions now range from porn and chatting to dating apps and exes on Facebook
- •The constitutive element of infidelity is secrecy
- •Even hit-and-run affairs involve emotional involvement
- •Affairs are more about desire to be desired, seen and feel alive than about sex
Why Couples Don't Talk Until the Crisis Hits
Perel observes that most couples never discuss desire, boundaries and privacy until a crisis. She describes how love now asks one person to provide what a whole village once did, which makes infidelity a crisis of identity.
- •Most straight couples negotiate monogamy in five words: "I catch you, you're dead"
- •Conversations after a crisis happen amid pain, rage and confusion
- •One partner is now expected to supply what a community and religion once did
- •Infidelity shatters identity and trust in one's own perception
Gender Gap and the Unreliable Numbers
Perel discusses why infidelity appears to be rising, pointing to women gaining choice, independence and no-fault divorce. She notes that men and women lie about sex in different ways, so figures range from 30 to 70% depending on definition.
- •Women are closing the infidelity gender gap
- •Historically infidelity was a male privilege backed by theories of men as natural roamers
- •Men lie by inflating and women by minimizing
- •The gap between men and women is small, and the numbers vary widely with the definition
- •About 90% say lying about cheating is wrong, yet the same share say they'd lie
Raising Fidelity Early in a Relationship
Howes asks when new couples should talk about infidelity. Perel recommends weaving these questions into getting to know each other, treating monogamy as a practice and a choice rather than a dogma, and tells a story of a woman whose partner kept cheating.
- •Ask about past heartbreak, cheating and trust issues as part of normal conversation
- •Whoever you choose next is chosen in relation to the previous partner
- •Monogamy is a practice and a choice, not natural
- •Attractions to others are normal even when we choose not to act
- •A woman whose partner cheated repeatedly was advised to take care of herself
Rebuilding Trust After a Betrayal
Perel explains how trust is rebuilt depending on the length of the relationship and whether the affair was tied to relationship problems. She emphasizes remorse, guilt rather than shame, and patience with the hurt partner's repeated questions.
- •Distinguish betrayals caused by the relationship's decline from those unrelated to it
- •The most important trust is that the partner is choosing you again
- •Remorse is the first step and differs from self-focused shame
- •The wrongdoer should patiently answer repeated questions without saying "let's move on"
- •Trust is not categorical; people still trust a partner for many things
Does Infidelity End Relationships? Contempt and the Four Horsemen
Perel says an affair can be the death knell of a dying relationship or an alarm that jolts a couple awake. She names contempt as the biggest relationship killer and walks through the four destructive behaviors described in John Gottman's research.
- •An affair can end a relationship or serve as a wake-up call
- •Contempt is a form of dehumanization and the end of the rope
- •Criticism, defensiveness and stonewalling accompany it
- •People blame communication or topics, but how they handle the topic matters more
- •Too much avoidance or too much conflict marks the death of a couple
Touch, Sex and Erotic Connection
Perel distinguishes touch, which humans need, from sex, and says pleasure rather than performance is the measure. She explains how sex can be a gateway to tenderness for men raised under a masculine code.
- •People can live without sex but not without touch
- •Pleasure is the measure, not performance
- •Playfulness, curiosity and attention keep a relationship alive
- •Loss of the erotic is a loss of what sex gives access to
- •For some men sex is the only permitted route to tenderness and vulnerability
What Perel Learned: Happy Partners Stray, and Affairs Hold Longing
Perel explains why she wrote the book and shares what she learned from the research. Affairs also happen in happy relationships, and every affair involves both betrayal and longing.
- •Understanding infidelity is not condoning it, and studying betrayal teaches about trust
- •Affairs also occur in relationships where people say they love their partner
- •Infidelity needs a dual view: hurt and betrayal, and longing for connection and aliveness
- •Both what it did to the partner and what it meant to the unfaithful person matter
Bringing Your Best Self and Novelty Home
Responding to Howes's question about how to find missing things in the relationship, Perel asks people to compare who they are at home versus elsewhere. She says erotic couples keep attention on each other and seek novelty, citing Helen Fisher's work on novelty and testosterone.
- •People often bring leftovers home while presenting their best selves elsewhere
- •Some compartmentalize pleasure because home felt unsafe in childhood
- •Erotic couples don't take each other for granted
- •New experiences bring excitement, while familiar activities bring comfort
- •Appreciation keeps the partner who plans novelty motivated
Staying After Infidelity Without Shame
Perel argues that people who choose to stay after an affair are often judged, and that crisis can lead to a better relationship. She says many people don't tell friends and feel shamed, especially men.
- •Culture says to leave if you can do better, and those who stay are looked down on
- •Many people won't tell their friends because they feel judged
- •Sometimes leaving is right, but shaming those who stay is unfair
- •A crisis can bring reprioritization and greater honesty, like an illness
- •The shame of staying falls even harder on men
How to Be a Good Friend to Someone Who Was Cheated On
Perel offers guidance for friends: don't insert your own story, don't push them to leave or trash the partner, and restore their sense of self-worth. She recommends offering space, practical care and asking what they need.
- •Avoid inserting your own story and avoid trashing the partner, which can push them to defend the partner
- •Remind your friend of their value when they feel devalued
- •Don't make the decision for them, since you don't live with the consequences
- •Offer a couch, meals and distraction, and let them land
- •Ask what they need: help staying, leaving, or just presence
The State of Affairs Book and Where Should We Begin Podcast
Howes and Perel promote the book, which draws on hundreds of stories and covers jealousy, vengeance, sex and monogamy. They also describe her podcast of real, unscripted couples sessions.
- •The book is based on hundreds of stories and is relevant even to people who haven't experienced infidelity
- •One reader said it shows what to pay attention to for a thriving relationship
- •Topics include jealousy, vengeance, heartbreak, guilt and accountability
- •The podcast Where Should We Begin features anonymous couples' sessions edited into half hours
- •Perel suggests listening together with a partner
Three Truths and Definition of Greatness
Howes closes with his signature questions. Perel shares what she'd want remembered, lessons about judging people by their actions, knowing where you come from and having loved ones, and defines greatness as a full, satiated life.
- •She'd hope to be remembered by people who say she changed their lives or marriages
- •Judge people by their actions and decency, not money, education or politics
- •Always remember where you come from
- •Everybody should have loved ones
- •Greatness is a full life with fun, creativity, friends and strong relationships
