"This Is Why You FEEL LOST & UNHAPPY In Life" - Fix This TODAY! | Andrew Huberman

1. 0:00 – 12:19

   How the Body and Mind Are Connected

   1. AHDr. Andrew Huberman0:00

      The old narrative 10 years ago was that if you're feeling depressed, just smile. Well, if that worked-

   2. SPSpeaker0:06

      [laughs] Right

   3. AHDr. Andrew Huberman0:08

      ... we would have a lot less depression than we see out there.

   4. SPSpeaker0:10

      Right. I think you gotta have a dream. The School of Greatness. Really? [laughs] Please welcome Lewis Howes. Welcome back, everyone, to The School of Greatness Podcast. I'm super excited about our guest today, Andrew Huberman in the house. Good to see you, my friend.

   5. AHDr. Andrew Huberman0:23

      Hey, great to be here. Thanks.

   6. SPSpeaker0:24

      Very excited. You are a neuroscientist, professor of neurobiology and ophthalmology, which is the hardest word to say, at Stanford. Uh, you run a lab, Huberman Lab, which is primarily studying brain states such as fear, courage, anxiety, calm, and how we can better move in and out of certain things. My first question, I've been super excited about this interview happening because I'm fascinated by how we think, how we feel, our emotions, how everything is connected in our body and our brains, and I'm curious, how much does the body control the mind and the mind control the body? Are they very connected, or is the mind in complete control?

   7. AHDr. Andrew Huberman1:01

      That's a great question. The short answer is the body has a huge and profound influence on our mind. And the reason is that we often talk about the brain, and we think the brain, the brain, the brain. The brain is important, but the brain and the spinal cord, which is, makes up what we call the central nervous system, are extensively connected with the body, and the body is extensively connected with the brain and spinal cord.

   8. SPSpeaker1:28

      So the spinal cord is connected to the brain-

   9. AHDr. Andrew Huberman1:30

      That's right

   10. SPSpeaker1:30

       ... in the back. It comes up the neck-

   11. AHDr. Andrew Huberman1:31

       That's right

   12. SPSpeaker1:31

       ... and it's, the actual nerves are connected inside of your brain.

   13. AHDr. Andrew Huberman1:35

       That's right.

   14. SPSpeaker1:35

       And go all the way down to lower back?

   15. AHDr. Andrew Huberman1:37

       Yeah. Yeah, so basically we are a big tube, uh, or our nervous system is a big tube. So your brain obviously is the thing that's shaped like, more or less like this, and then the spinal cord extends off the back, and all that is housed in skull except for two pieces of the brain, uh, which are the eyes, which are the, actually two pieces of the brain that are outside the skull.

   16. SPSpeaker1:57

       The eyes are a part of the brain.

   17. AHDr. Andrew Huberman1:58

       They are absolutely a part of the brain. They are central nervous system. So it's eyes, brain, and spinal cord make up-

   18. SPSpeaker2:05

       They're all connected.

   19. AHDr. Andrew Huberman2:05

       They're all connected.

   20. SPSpeaker2:06

       So if, if you took that out of the body, let's say-

   21. AHDr. Andrew Huberman2:09

       Yeah

   22. SPSpeaker2:09

       ... they would all be connected in some way.

   23. AHDr. Andrew Huberman2:11

       That's right. They're contiguous, as we say. They're just one unit.

   24. SPSpeaker2:14

       They're one piece.

   25. AHDr. Andrew Huberman2:14

       That's right. And when, sometimes I get challenged, people say, "The eyes aren't part of the brain." Well, then that means that the spinal cord is part of the brain, too, and I, I wanna be really clear. This is not semantics. There is a genetic program that ensures that early in development during the first trimester when we were all in our mothers' bellies, the retinas, the neural retinas and eyes were deliberately pushed out of the skull. And the reason you have those eyes outside your skull is so that you can evaluate things at a great distance from you, right? Because otherwise everything would have to be in contact with you. Other animals do this mainly using smell. We are very visually driven. So a lot of our genome is devoted to vision and understanding what's going on at a distance from us, and that's afforded us a huge evolutionary advantage.

   26. SPSpeaker3:01

       To survive.

   27. AHDr. Andrew Huberman3:01

       To survive because the, the more that I can anticipate events at a distance, the more that I could coordinate with my environment like daytime and nighttime, but also when objects are coming at me or things I wanna chase and kill or, um, you know, you think about mating behavior and hunter-gatherer behavior, all of that, evaluating faces and face, facial expressions without actually having to come into contact with people afforded a huge evolutionary advantage. But I wanna make sure that I answer your question thoroughly.

   28. SPSpeaker3:29

       Mm-hmm.

   29. AHDr. Andrew Huberman3:29

       The nervous system includes the brain, which we now know includes the eyes as well, the spinal cord, and then what's called the peripheral nervous system, all the connections with the body. And every organ in our body, our heart, our diaphragm, our lungs, our spleen, our liver, all of it is, is, as we say, innervated. It receives-

   30. SPSpeaker3:45

       Connected
2. 12:19 – 19:41

   Depression, Baselines and Taking Responsibility

   1. SPSpeaker12:19

      With, with, with feelings, I wanna talk about feelings and emotions for a second. Can a person make it so they never get depressed, they never react to, um, their perception, their, people's actions towards them, where they never get to a state of, "Ah, I don't feel good. I'm feeling more depressed. I'm in a, a dark place now. I'm stuck in this place." Is there a way that we could ever defend ourselves against negative stressors and negative emotions, or are we just, are they, do we need them as well to have contrast in life?

   2. AHDr. Andrew Huberman12:52

      Yeah. Well, there's sort of two views on this. Um, I'll reveal mine after I, um, sort of r- uh, explain the two views. One is that s- these states, uh, I guess I'm, I'm automatically calling things like depression a state of mind-

   3. SPSpeaker13:04

      State of body. Is it-

   4. AHDr. Andrew Huberman13:05

      So when I say a state of mind, I mean brain and body

   5. SPSpeaker13:07

      'Cause your body is really feeling, it's like the brain is connected to the body.

   6. AHDr. Andrew Huberman13:12

      Right

   7. SPSpeaker13:12

      And so if you're saying internally a thought of like, "I'm depressed, I don't feel good," or, "I'm sad," or, "I'm lonely," or, "I'm not good enough," the body's gonna react. Is that what I'm understanding?

   8. AHDr. Andrew Huberman13:22

      Absolutely

   9. SPSpeaker13:22

      Like, the body's going to manifest what the mind is telling you.

   10. AHDr. Andrew Huberman13:26

       Absolutely

   11. SPSpeaker13:26

       The thought, the idea. You're gonna be like, "I'm sad. I'm not good enough," and you're gonna shrink.

   12. AHDr. Andrew Huberman13:30

       Right

   13. SPSpeaker13:31

       Is that right?

   14. AHDr. Andrew Huberman13:31

       That's right. I mean, there are really two forms of depression. Um, and sometimes they're intermixed, but one is anxiety associated depression, and you, you, if you've ever experienced it or for anyone that's experienced it, they feel agitation in their body, and their mind races, but in their body. So the body is recruited. There are also depressive states that people feel very fatigued and exhausted. It's, and overwhelmed, and they also experience that in their body. The, the idea of getting out of bed in the morning is hard, um, motivating to exercise, doing the sorts of things that we know are powerful for pushing back on depression.

   15. SPSpeaker14:07

       Mm-hmm

   16. AHDr. Andrew Huberman14:08

       So the body is recruited. I think most people would say that depressive states are bad when they bring down the baseline on life. I, just to, as a brief aside, anytime there's a question about mental health or addiction or trauma or anything, o- one could look at it and make up some argument of, "Well, evolutionarily this makes sense. We all get depressed." Right? But we have to be fair to the person experiencing it, of course, and have sensitivity that some behaviors will keep the baseline of our life steady, meaning job, relationships, et cetera, will continue as they are. Other activities will tend to improve the baseline on our life, job activities, relationship, et cetera, will, will improve. And then there's some things like heroin, which does very quickly, we can predict that very quickly the baseline on life is gonna creep down regardless of who that person is. Right?

   17. SPSpeaker15:01

       Mm-hmm.

   18. AHDr. Andrew Huberman15:01

       So people say, "Can you get addicted to water?" Well, maybe, but I have to drink a lot of water before the baseline on my life starts to go down.

   19. SPSpeaker15:08

       Oh, sure. It feels uncomfortable.

   20. AHDr. Andrew Huberman15:10

       That's right

   21. SPSpeaker15:10

       You're just like, "Man, I'm so bloated all the time." [laughs]

   22. AHDr. Andrew Huberman15:11

       Exactly. So we tend to throw around things like addiction and depression a little loosely. So-

   23. SPSpeaker15:15

       Yeah

   24. AHDr. Andrew Huberman15:15

       ... I, I think that it's fair to say that depression is wired into us as a possible state that we can all fall into, but that it's very important, in my opinion, that humans have tools to remove themselves from that state-

   25. SPSpeaker15:29

       Mm-hmm

   26. AHDr. Andrew Huberman15:29

       ... of course, to avoid, you know, tragedies like suicide, but also because when the baseline on someone's life s- goes down far enough, they find it increasingly hard to do the sorts of things that are gonna get them out of depression. So you or I could say-

   27. SPSpeaker15:44

       So they stay in that state of depression-

   28. AHDr. Andrew Huberman15:46

       That's right

   29. SPSpeaker15:46

       ... because, "Ah, it's too hard to go work out. It's too hard to change my habit-

   30. AHDr. Andrew Huberman15:49

       Right
3. 19:41 – 22:00

   Why You Can't Think Your Way Out of an Emotional State

   1. AHDr. Andrew Huberman19:41

      Right. It's, right. So a specific tool.

   2. SPSpeaker19:42

      Go outside for a walk.

   3. AHDr. Andrew Huberman19:43

      A specific tool.

   4. SPSpeaker19:44

      Yeah.

   5. AHDr. Andrew Huberman19:44

      Right? And when it comes to depression and emotions, I mean, the... It's very hard to talk oneself out of an emotional state. It's just very challenging.

   6. SPSpeaker19:53

      Very hard.

   7. AHDr. Andrew Huberman19:53

      That's right. [laughs]

   8. SPSpeaker19:54

      It's like when I talk to my girlfriend and she's just, like, she's not happy about something, and she gets on a tangent, I'm like, there's nothing I can say to calm her down. There's nothing I can say to s- to someone who's emotional-

   9. AHDr. Andrew Huberman20:04

      Mm-hmm

   10. SPSpeaker20:04

       ... about an idea in the moment-

   11. AHDr. Andrew Huberman20:05

       Mm-hmm

   12. SPSpeaker20:05

       ... until I'm like, "Okay, let's talk later."

   13. AHDr. Andrew Huberman20:08

       Mm-hmm.

   14. SPSpeaker20:08

       Otherwise, me trying to tell them to relax, no, that's not what you're thinking-

   15. AHDr. Andrew Huberman20:11

       It's counterproductive

   16. SPSpeaker20:12

       ... that's not what... You know, "It's not the truth, that's not what you're thinking," or whatever, it's counterproductive, right?

   17. AHDr. Andrew Huberman20:16

       Yeah.

   18. SPSpeaker20:16

       Makes them [laughs] more emotional.

   19. AHDr. Andrew Huberman20:18

       Well, that's because these states, like these emotional states-

   20. SPSpeaker20:21

       Ah

   21. AHDr. Andrew Huberman20:21

       ... of mind, they, they recruit the whole nervous system. So we are actually-

   22. SPSpeaker20:26

       Wow

   23. AHDr. Andrew Huberman20:27

       ... a different host-

   24. SPSpeaker20:27

       Your whole body is out of control.

   25. AHDr. Andrew Huberman20:30

       Your mind, your body. L- like, for instance, if you're angry, upset, or stressed, your pupils dilate. This is subconscious.

   26. SPSpeaker20:36

       [laughs]

   27. AHDr. Andrew Huberman20:37

       As a consequence, as a consequence of that, you view the world in paner- in a, kinda like portrait mode, not panoramic, excuse me. Portrait mode on your phone, where the thing that's upsetting you is in sharper focus and everything else is blurry. So you actually see the world differently. In addition to that, the timing, uh, the, your perception of time, excuse me, is now faster, so that things outside you seem to be moving more slowly in comparison to how you feel inside. You've experienced this if you were ever in line at the airport or something and it's taking a long time and you're about to miss your flight, seems like the person in front of you is moving very slowly.

   28. SPSpeaker21:11

       They're taking forever, yeah.

   29. AHDr. Andrew Huberman21:12

       Yeah, but time is time. It's, you know, it's moving at the same rate regardless. When you're very calm, or let's say you're, you're fatigued. Let's say you're exhausted. You didn't sleep well the night before. Things in front of you are gonna seem like they're moving really fast. They're saying, "Take off your shoes," putting them on the conveyor belt, and it's kind of overwhelming.

   30. SPSpeaker21:27

       Like, "Slow down, here."
4. 22:00 – 27:33

   Breathing Tools: The Physiological Sigh

   1. AHDr. Andrew Huberman22:00

      So there are two ways that you can shift your brain state quickly. You mentioned one already, which is respiration or breathing. And the reason is there's a direct connection from the brain to an organ in our body called the diaphragm, which is skeletal muscle. The diaphragm is designed to move the lungs up and down, bring in more oxygen, expel more oxygen, and it's unlike other organs, like the heart or the spleen or the liver, because it's actually made up of what's called striated muscle, just like a bicep, tricep, or quadricep. It can be voluntarily controlled. You can't voluntarily control your heart directly right now. Like, you can't say, "Speed up," and speed it up.

   2. SPSpeaker22:35

      Or slow down.

   3. AHDr. Andrew Huberman22:35

      Or slow it down.

   4. SPSpeaker22:36

      But you can slow down your breathing-

   5. AHDr. Andrew Huberman22:37

      You can d-

   6. SPSpeaker22:37

      ... and you can slow down the way you think about things, I'm assuming. Or sl- or change your thought to something else to help you be more relaxed.

   7. AHDr. Andrew Huberman22:44

      That's right. So one of the reasons why breathing is such a powerful tool for shifting one's state is that, A, it's always available for voluntary control. It's just right there. You can d- I can decide right now to do three inhales. [inhales] Or I can just go back to breathing reflexively. I can just do that at any moment. So the, the neural archit- you know, real estate which is in the brainstem that controls breathing is in a unique position because it's at the kind of boundary between conscious control and unconscious control. I can't do that for my digestion. I can't do that for-

   8. SPSpeaker23:17

      Wow

   9. AHDr. Andrew Huberman23:17

      ... most e- most everything that happens internally. The other thing is that breathing controls our level of alertness very dramatically. So the faster you breathe, generally, the more alert you are. The slower you breathe, the more calm you're gonna be.

   10. SPSpeaker23:30

       The faster you breathe meaning shorter, quick breaths, or [quick inhales]

   11. AHDr. Andrew Huberman23:34

       Either way. So, um, so we're just to take a brief, um, adventure through the, the neuroscience of breathing and how it relates to brain states and, and there's some fun tools in here, so forgive me for this tangent. But you have two brain areas that are responsible for breathing. One is called, for the aficionados, the prebotzinger complex. It was discovered by Jack Feldman at UCLA. It's named after a bottle of wine, so now you w- people won't forget it.

   12. SPSpeaker23:57

       [laughs]

   13. AHDr. Andrew Huberman23:58

       And it controls rhythmic breathing. So inhale, exhale, inhale, exhale. It's just rhythmic breathing. There's another brain area that controls breathing, which is near what's called the parafacial nucleus, which involves breathing any time there are double inhales or double exhales or triple inhales. And you say, "Well, why would you have this second brain area for breathing?" Well, it turns out when you're speaking- Or crying or coughing, you need to coordinate your breathing with your speaking, and that means sometimes you need to take multiple inhales or multiple exhales, and this is all happening very, very fast, so you don't notice. But there's a very important discovery that was made a few years ago by Jack's lab and by a guy named Mark Krasnow at Stanford, who discovered there's a set of neurons in your brain stem, my brain stem, everybody's brain stem, and every animal, every mammal's brain stem. It's a very small number of neurons that controls a specific pattern of breathing, which are called physiological sighs. So these are not just sighs where you go [exhales] and exhale. These are sighs that involve doing two inhales and then an extended exhale.

   14. SPSpeaker24:57

       We all do this.

   15. AHDr. Andrew Huberman24:58

       You do this during sleep, anytime carbon dioxide levels in your bloodstream get too high, in order to get more oxygen into your system. People also do this if they've been crying or sobbing. They'll do this [inhales] and then they'll exhale. So what's happening with these physiological sighs and why is this powerful? So your lungs are two big bags of air, but they actually are made up of a ton of little sacks of air called the alveoli of the lungs.

   16. SPSpeaker25:24

       Hmm.

   17. AHDr. Andrew Huberman25:24

       When we are exercising or when we are sleeping or anytime we're doing anything, these l- these little sacks of air eventually start to collapse. And what happens is carbon dioxide builds up in our system and we experience that as stress. We actually feel the impulse to breathe because carbon dioxide levels get too high. There are neurons that sense carbon dioxide. And then, without realizing it, you do a double inhale and then exhale. Typically, the inhales are done through the nose and the exhale is done through the mouth. So it looks like [inhales and exhales] . And why the second inhale? Well, if you've ever, um, tried to blow up a balloon for a kid at a kid's party or you're just blowing up a balloon, you sometimes blow into that empty balloon, it doesn't work-

   18. SPSpeaker26:02

       It doesn't go anywhere. Stop

   19. AHDr. Andrew Huberman26:03

       ... so what do you do? You do two in... You do two. You go [blows air] and then it pops open. So these double inhales pop open the alveoli of the lungs.

   20. SPSpeaker26:10

       Huh.

   21. AHDr. Andrew Huberman26:10

       They don't explode them, but they pop them open, which pulls carbon dioxide out of the bloodstream, brings oxygen, and then you offload carbon dioxide.

   22. SPSpeaker26:18

       [laughs]

   23. AHDr. Andrew Huberman26:18

       So if you watch a dog right before it takes a nap or something, it often will do these. Now, what's cool about these physiological sighs is, from work in our lab and w- that's still ongoing, I just want to say it's still ongoing, but work in other labs as well, f- double inhales followed by an extended exhale are the fastest way that I'm aware of to bring the mind and the body into a more relaxed-

   24. SPSpeaker26:39

       No way

   25. AHDr. Andrew Huberman26:39

       ... state.

   26. SPSpeaker26:40

       Really?

   27. AHDr. Andrew Huberman26:40

       Yeah. It, it only-

   28. SPSpeaker26:41

       The fastest way

   29. AHDr. Andrew Huberman26:42

       ... the fastest way.

   30. SPSpeaker26:42

       If I'm stressed, I'm overwhelmed, just do a [inhales] three or two?
5. 27:33 – 37:33

   Stress, Adrenaline, Cortisol and the Immune System

   1. AHDr. Andrew Huberman27:33

      But I think for anyone that experiences anxiety from time to time, which is everybody, knowing that you can consciously take control over these neurons that control the ratio of carbon dioxide and oxygen in your lungs, et cetera, even if you don't remember any of that, it's just two inhales through the nose [inhales] . What you're trying to do is maximally inflate those little sacks in your lungs [inhales] and then exhale long through the mouth, 'cause you're blowing off carbon dioxide.

   2. SPSpeaker27:57

      I heard you do a... Does it matter the cadence? 'Cause you did a long, deep breath and then a shorter-

   3. AHDr. Andrew Huberman28:02

      Not so much.

   4. SPSpeaker28:03

      That's just your style.

   5. AHDr. Andrew Huberman28:04

      Yeah, you're just trying to fill those lo- those as big as you can. [exhales] So the advice that we hear of take a deep breath-

   6. SPSpeaker28:10

      Yeah

   7. AHDr. Andrew Huberman28:10

      ... or just exhale is sort of right, but it doesn't capture-

   8. SPSpeaker28:14

      Huh

   9. AHDr. Andrew Huberman28:14

      ... the, the, this neural circuit. So a lot of what my lab is focused on, 'cause there's so many great labs and people doing great stuff in the breathwork community, Patrick McKeown, Brian Mackenzie, there, there are all these incredible people doing this work, Wim Hof-

   10. SPSpeaker28:25

       Yeah

   11. AHDr. Andrew Huberman28:25

       ... but my lab's been mainly focused on what is the neural machinery that controls these brain body states? And the reason these physiological sighs work is partially 'cause you offload carbon dioxide, you re-inflate the lungs, so when the body has oxygen, it's happy. When it ha- doesn't have oxygen, it gets stressed. But the other reason is the most direct and fastest connection between the brain and body for controlling your state of mind is what's called the phrenic nerve, P-H-R-E-N-I-C. The phrenic nerve connects these neurons that I'm referring to in these two brain centers that control breathing with the diaphragm.

   12. SPSpeaker29:00

       Huh.

   13. AHDr. Andrew Huberman29:00

       A lot of people get excited about the vagus nerve, and I'm not out to punish the vagus nerve or the vaganistas.

   14. SPSpeaker29:07

       [laughs]

   15. AHDr. Andrew Huberman29:08

       But the truth is the vagus nerve is a very slow system for calming the brain and body. It's called the rest and digest pathway.

   16. SPSpeaker29:14

       Mm-hmm.

   17. AHDr. Andrew Huberman29:15

       People are engaging their vagus all the time when they eat a big meal. When the stomach is distended, it sends a signal to the brain that, "Oh, I have enough food. It's time to rest-

   18. SPSpeaker29:24

       Relax

   19. AHDr. Andrew Huberman29:24

       ... and digest." But eating, first of all, if you're only using food as a way to control your stress-

   20. SPSpeaker29:31

       That's not a good habit [laughs]

   21. AHDr. Andrew Huberman29:32

       ... it's not a good habit. And-

   22. SPSpeaker29:34

       And you'll, you'll be depressed once-

   23. AHDr. Andrew Huberman29:35

       That's right. People have l- learned long ago, thousands of years ago, that the best way to suppress a cortisol response is with carbohydrates, because it blunts cortisol. But this is why people eat carbohydrate-rich foods when they're stressed.

   24. SPSpeaker29:46

       And when cortisol is spiked, what happens?

   25. AHDr. Andrew Huberman29:48

       So every morning when you wake up, there's a cortisol spike. That's a good cortisol spike.

   26. SPSpeaker29:52

       That's a rest spike, right?

   27. AHDr. Andrew Huberman29:53

       That's-

   28. SPSpeaker29:53

       It's like a-

   29. AHDr. Andrew Huberman29:54

       It's a good one. It's the one that wakes you up out of sleep and you want that early in the day.

   30. SPSpeaker29:57

       So you're not just, like, groggy all day, right?
6. 37:33 – 43:12

   Stress Inoculation and the Power of Narrative

   1. AHDr. Andrew Huberman37:33

      What they tend to do and what cold showers and ice baths and things like that do is they raise the ceiling on your stress threshold. And what I mean by that is throughout the day and throughout the year, we're confronted with different things. Right now we're confronted with a lot of things.

   2. SPSpeaker37:49

      Yeah. [laughs]

   3. AHDr. Andrew Huberman37:49

      2020 is the year of being confronted with stress of various kinds. The mind plays an important role in interpreting whether or not it's overwhelming or tolerable. So intense breathing like Tummo breathing or ice baths or cold showers or intense exercise like, you know, high-intensity interval training type stuff teaches the mind to be comfortable in these higher stress states where, in other words, it teaches people to be comfortable when they have a lot of adrenaline in their body.

   4. SPSpeaker38:17

      Mm.

   5. AHDr. Andrew Huberman38:17

      This is a, this is basically stress inoculation. But stress inoculation is not about not getting stressed. It's actually about divorcing the mind-body relationship a bit so that you're calm in the mind when your body is very amplified.

   6. SPSpeaker38:30

      Under stress.

   7. AHDr. Andrew Huberman38:30

      Yeah. So if you've ever done Tummo-type breathing or you've done a cold shower-

   8. SPSpeaker38:33

      Mm-hmm

   9. AHDr. Andrew Huberman38:33

      ... the goal is to get the adrenaline release, but then-

   10. SPSpeaker38:36

       And then calm your mind

   11. AHDr. Andrew Huberman38:37

       ... and then calm your mind.

   12. SPSpeaker38:37

       And stay in the ice, not like, "Ah, I'm exha-

   13. AHDr. Andrew Huberman38:40

       Right

   14. SPSpeaker38:40

       ... I'm freezing," but more like, "No, I can handle this."

   15. AHDr. Andrew Huberman38:42

       That's right. That's right.

   16. SPSpeaker38:44

       And, and have power over your thoughts and your mind so that you can have more control of your body.

   17. AHDr. Andrew Huberman38:49

       That's right.

   18. SPSpeaker38:49

       Obviously you're gonna feel cold.

   19. AHDr. Andrew Huberman38:51

       Right.

   20. SPSpeaker38:51

       But if you can... But the, I mean, does the mind have 100% power over what the body feels?

   21. AHDr. Andrew Huberman38:57

       No.

   22. SPSpeaker38:58

       Okay.

   23. AHDr. Andrew Huberman38:58

       But it doesn't mean that it doesn't have a significant c- control over it. But if-

   24. SPSpeaker39:02

       Say I f- say I feel cold.

   25. AHDr. Andrew Huberman39:04

       Yeah.

   26. SPSpeaker39:04

       In the ice, right?

   27. AHDr. Andrew Huberman39:05

       Right.

   28. SPSpeaker39:05

       I'm in ice. It's 30 degrees.

   29. AHDr. Andrew Huberman39:07

       Right.

   30. SPSpeaker39:08

       Can I control my mind to say, "You know what? This is actually a hot tub," and you feel warm, and you're feeling hot right now? Or is it too much physiological ba- barriers to break through that?
7. 43:12 – 52:48

   Dopamine, Effort and Growth Mindset

   1. AHDr. Andrew Huberman43:12

      But most of our dopamine release is not from achieving goals. It's actually released when we are en route to our goals, when we're in pursuit of our goals and we think we're on the right path.

   2. SPSpeaker43:24

      This is why a lot of people get depressed after they achieve a big goal-

   3. AHDr. Andrew Huberman43:27

      That's right

   4. SPSpeaker43:27

      ... because they feel like, "I'm supposed to feel something greater. I felt this thing for two minutes, and now that's it?"

   5. AHDr. Andrew Huberman43:33

      That's right. High achievers know to attach dopamine to the effort process.

   6. SPSpeaker43:38

      To the pursuit, the day-to-day tasks, the, the growth, the lessons, the losses, like everything, right?

   7. AHDr. Andrew Huberman43:43

      Well, and it can be to some wins along the way.

   8. SPSpeaker43:45

      Yeah.

   9. AHDr. Andrew Huberman43:46

      But growth mindset, which is the academic discovery and laboratory discovery of my colleague Carol Dweck at Stanford, is the hallmark of growth mindset is, is really two things. One is, "I'm not where I wanna be now, but I, but I will... I'm capable of getting there eventually." The other is to attach a sense of reward to the effort process itself. In fact-

   10. SPSpeaker44:07

       Don't reward the result. Reward the effort

   11. AHDr. Andrew Huberman44:08

       That's right. And if you look at true high performers, people that are consistently good at what they do, they don't peak and go through the po- postpartum depression and crash and come back and their life is a cycle of ups and downs, but really people who are on that upward trajectory consistently, those people attach dopamine to the effort process. And actually, Carol's, uh, one of her original studies on the discovery of growth mindset was these kids that loved doing math problems that they knew they couldn't get right. So it's like the people who love puzzles, but in this case, they knew they couldn't get it right, but they loved doing it. And it, incidentally or not so incidentally, these kids are fantastic at math when there is a right answer because they're, they feel some sense of reward from the effort process.

   12. SPSpeaker44:52

       Yeah.

   13. AHDr. Andrew Huberman44:52

       Now, the cool thing about dopamine is that it's very subjectively controlled. We can all learn to secrete dopamine in our brain in response to things that are in a purely subjective way. And-

   14. SPSpeaker45:07

       Our interpretation

   15. AHDr. Andrew Huberman45:08

       ... our interpretation and, but it has to be attached to reality. So, you know, one should never confuse-

   16. SPSpeaker45:15

       What is real

   17. AHDr. Andrew Huberman45:16

       ... right. So no, so if you're ef- if you're thinking about the effort you're expending. So let's say somebody right now is financially back on their heels and they're setting up a new business, for instance, and it's hard. If they can take a few moments or, or minutes each day to reflect on the fact that the effort process is allowing them to climb out of their hole potentially, that it's giving them an opportunity, that it's somehow po- they are on the right path, or they're, or if they're not in movement along that path or at least oriented on the right path, they're not lying in bed all day, back on their heels.

   18. SPSpeaker45:51

       They're taking a step forward

   19. AHDr. Andrew Huberman45:52

       They're taking a step. If they can reward that process internally, two things happen. First of all, the brain circuits that are associated with building subjective rewards and dopamine get stronger, so you get better at that process. And second, and most importantly, dopamine has an amazing ability to buffer adrenaline and buffer epinephrine. And what I mean by that is there was a study that was published in the journal Cell, excellent journal, Cell Press journal, a couple years ago showing that with repeated bouts of effort, we use and we release more and more epinephrine. It's kind of adrenaline, but in the brain.

   20. SPSpeaker46:29

       With more effort, we release-

   21. AHDr. Andrew Huberman46:30

       Every time. Every time you put in effort. So every time you ma- let, for this, let's keep it in, if I were to keep it in the business context, every time you make to write that email, every time you, let's say it's a, a person who's a craftsman or a craftswoman, every time you're working in the, in the shop and doing that, every bit of effort, you're taking a little bit of money out of this epinephrine account. You're spending epinephrine. At some point, those levels of epinephrine get high enough that you c- you feel like quitting. It feels exhausting.

   22. SPSpeaker46:58

       [laughs]

   23. AHDr. Andrew Huberman46:59

       And this was done in a beautiful study actually where, um, they control the visual environments and they have the subjects ex- exert effort. And they can control the visual environment, so sometimes the effort of, of taking steps and moving forward, this is actually kind of pushing forward in a kind of swimming motion, um, would give them the sensation that they were actually making progress, and other times it was an exercise in futility where they would just keep the, the visual world stationary and they would expend effort, and they didn't think they were going anywhere.

   24. SPSpeaker47:27

       Right. Oh.

   25. AHDr. Andrew Huberman47:27

       Epinephrine's climbing, climbing, climbing, and eventually they quit. Now, dopamine is able to push back on that epinephrine and give you, anyone, the, the feeling that you could continue and maybe even the feeling that you want to continue. And you've seen this actually, like football's a good example. Two teams play, say the Super Bowl. Both teams are max effort the entire time.

   26. SPSpeaker47:51

       Yeah.

   27. AHDr. Andrew Huberman47:52

       Max effort. The team that wins suddenly in a moment has the energy to jump all over the place, party for days.

   28. SPSpeaker48:00

       [laughs]

   29. AHDr. Andrew Huberman48:00

       They can talk. I mean, they, they, they have the energy.

   30. SPSpeaker48:02

       They're exhausted right before then.
8. 52:48 – 1:06:08

   Rewarding the Hard Part and Staying Forward

   1. AHDr. Andrew Huberman52:48

      Okay. So we've all heard the sayings, you know, how do you... You know, a journey of a thousand miles starts with a single step. Or how do you eat an elephant? One bite at a time.

   2. SPSpeaker52:56

      Mm.

   3. AHDr. Andrew Huberman52:57

      Or, you know, all, there are all these sayings and, and it, you know, goes back to the Bible and earlier.

   4. SPSpeaker53:01

      Yeah.

   5. AHDr. Andrew Huberman53:01

      Right? I mean, this is not new. These are not new sayings, but they're showing up in different forms. What's lost in those short descriptions, however, is that every step is not equivalent. If it were just that a journey of a thousand miles starts with a single step, everyone would pursue their goals.

   6. SPSpeaker53:17

      [laughs]

   7. AHDr. Andrew Huberman53:18

      Everyone would push back against adversity. Everyone... I mean, you can read the inspirational stories a- as many times as one needs, and I do think inspirational stories are a very high value. In fact, I think they're vicarious dopamine. I think they give us the sense that we could, which then orients-

   8. SPSpeaker53:34

      Hope

   9. AHDr. Andrew Huberman53:34

      ... hope, which then orients us to the world again.

   10. SPSpeaker53:37

       To start. Yeah.

   11. AHDr. Andrew Huberman53:37

       That's-

   12. SPSpeaker53:37

       So it's po- maybe it's possible for me.

   13. AHDr. Andrew Huberman53:39

       That's right. So let's say, um, let's take the example of somebody who's, um-

   14. SPSpeaker53:43

       But just to finish that, that story of it's not about just taking a single step and one step at a time. Is it because there's adversities every 10 steps you go, and so it's harder and harder?

   15. AHDr. Andrew Huberman53:55

       Yeah.

   16. SPSpeaker53:55

       So it's not just one-

   17. AHDr. Andrew Huberman53:56

       Well, it's just very non-linear.

   18. SPSpeaker53:57

       Yeah, yeah.

   19. AHDr. Andrew Huberman53:57

       You know, it's, it's some days go... You know, I know this from my scientific career. It's, you know, some days it's easy, some days it's hard. It's all over the place.

   20. SPSpeaker54:03

       Mm-hmm.

   21. AHDr. Andrew Huberman54:03

       Right? So I think the thing to remember is that dopamine is this incredibly powerful molecule that allows us to buffer the effort process. It allows us to be in effort longer, and it allows us to actually eventually enjoy the process of effort.

   22. SPSpeaker54:18

       And not think about the reward, but just say, "Oh, I'm enjoying the process."

   23. AHDr. Andrew Huberman54:21

       Right. Well, you just described the first step. The first step in learning to attach dopamine to the effort process, which is the key- ... operation in order to succeed is to be very careful about how much you focus on the end goal. Keeping the goal in mind is important for, like, a proper orientation. You have to know the ultimate destination. But if at any point we were to evaluate our progress relative to that end goal, or if we don't know what the end goal is, there's a huge gap there.

   24. SPSpeaker54:53

       Right

   25. AHDr. Andrew Huberman54:53

       And it can feel overwhelming.

   26. SPSpeaker54:54

       And depressing, and I'm not good enough.

   27. AHDr. Andrew Huberman54:56

       That's right.

   28. SPSpeaker54:57

       I should just give up. What am I doing this for?

   29. AHDr. Andrew Huberman54:59

       That's right. You know-

   30. SPSpeaker54:59

       And those thoughts will affect us
9. 1:06:08 – 1:16:47

   Neuroplasticity, Learning and Play

   1. SPSpeaker1:06:08

      Reflexive, same thing as reactive, or what's reflective?

   2. AHDr. Andrew Huberman1:06:11

      Yeah, so, um, there are two modes of brain operations.

   3. SPSpeaker1:06:14

      Mm-hmm.

   4. AHDr. Andrew Huberman1:06:14

      So now this is, um, getting a little nitty-gritty, but one is deliberate, where we're in v- thinking duration, path, and outcome. What should I do? What, you know, how long should I do it, and what's the outcome?

   5. SPSpeaker1:06:26

      Deliberate.

   6. AHDr. Andrew Huberman1:06:27

      Yeah.

   7. SPSpeaker1:06:27

      Intentional.

   8. AHDr. Andrew Huberman1:06:28

      And it feels like work. This is what people need to understand.

   9. SPSpeaker1:06:30

      [laughs]

   10. AHDr. Andrew Huberman1:06:31

       The deliberate thought, deliberate action, writing the book, doing the workout you don't wanna do, whatever it is, having the conversation, it's supposed to feel hard.

   11. SPSpeaker1:06:38

       Hard.

   12. AHDr. Andrew Huberman1:06:39

       It's supposed to feel hard. But you should subjectively reward it so that you get better at, at doing that.

   13. SPSpeaker1:06:43

       Ah.

   14. AHDr. Andrew Huberman1:06:44

       So it's supposed to feel hard, because it's associated with this release of these neurochemicals that create this agitation. The mental strain you feel when you're learning something is the trigger for neuroplasticity for your brain to change. It's-

   15. SPSpeaker1:06:56

       Say that again. The mental strain you feel while doing something is the what?

   16. AHDr. Andrew Huberman1:07:01

       Is the trigger for neuroplasticity.

   17. SPSpeaker1:07:03

       Which neuroplasticity allows you to expand your mind to do more things.

   18. AHDr. Andrew Huberman1:07:07

       That's right. So neuroplasticity is a process of taking something where there's duration, path, and outcome, where I'm working hard, I'm thinking hard. Maybe it's a hard conversation, maybe it's a business plan, maybe it's a scientific career. And the goal of neuroplasticity is to make things reflexive so you don't have to think about them, right?

   19. SPSpeaker1:07:24

       For instance, I just started taking Spanish class one-on-one, and it's extremely hard.

   20. AHDr. Andrew Huberman1:07:29

       Right.

   21. SPSpeaker1:07:29

       It makes me wanna say, "Why am I doing this?"

   22. AHDr. Andrew Huberman1:07:31

       Right.

   23. SPSpeaker1:07:32

       This is gonna take me years-

   24. AHDr. Andrew Huberman1:07:33

       Mm-hmm

   25. SPSpeaker1:07:33

       ... until I'm conversational. Who knows how long till I'm fluent. You know, if it's this hard as, at like this stage, man, is it ever gonna get easier? I have those moments-

   26. AHDr. Andrew Huberman1:07:42

       Mm-hmm

   27. SPSpeaker1:07:42

       ... every time I'm doing class.

   28. AHDr. Andrew Huberman1:07:43

       Mm-hmm.

   29. SPSpeaker1:07:43

       I'm like, "This sucks."

   30. AHDr. Andrew Huberman1:07:45

       Right.
10. 1:16:47 – 1:22:42

    Serotonin, Rest and Yoga Nidra

    1. AHDr. Andrew Huberman1:16:47

       And it's so powerful because unless that dop- uh, that, excuse me, that serotonin box is checked off periodically, we cannot lean back into the dopamine outward pursuit process for very long.

    2. SPSpeaker1:16:57

       So we need serotonin-

    3. AHDr. Andrew Huberman1:16:58

       Absolutely

    4. SPSpeaker1:16:59

       ... to feel more, what? Complete? Whole?

    5. AHDr. Andrew Huberman1:17:02

       Safe.

    6. SPSpeaker1:17:03

       Safe.

    7. AHDr. Andrew Huberman1:17:03

       Once you feel... This is where people, you know, I think that the go-getters get it wrong [laughs]

    8. SPSpeaker1:17:09

       Mm.

    9. AHDr. Andrew Huberman1:17:09

       No pun intended, where getting after it and being hard-driving is really important. But, you know, we've all seen examples of this. I've seen a number of these in Silicon Valley, friends that did very well in tech get to the point where they reach that finish line, and then they don't have a whole lot or a whole lot of people to share that with, and they end up very isolated and depressed. And then they go through this whole cycle-

    10. SPSpeaker1:17:30

        Yeah

    11. AHDr. Andrew Huberman1:17:30

        ... of trying to find themselves. And, um, you need to balance serotonin and dopamine, maybe across the day, maybe across the week. You know, I think in religious practices, um, all religions really, there's a kind of Sabbath, there's a rest period, you know, for many, many or I think all of them. Um, that makes sense because there needs to be a renewal. Whether or not people have a religious practice or not, there needs to be a renewal or-

    12. SPSpeaker1:17:52

        A recovery

    13. AHDr. Andrew Huberman1:17:53

        ... a recovery to recover the immune system. You can't drive the immune system all week, all week, all week. You need to recover it.

    14. SPSpeaker1:17:58

        This is why I love sports analogies, because there's, uh, a preseason, there's a season, there's a postseason where you're really in high stress and emotion, and then there's a postseason.

    15. AHDr. Andrew Huberman1:18:08

        Yeah.

    16. SPSpeaker1:18:08

        There's an off-season-

    17. AHDr. Andrew Huberman1:18:09

        Right

    18. SPSpeaker1:18:09

        ... for a reason. You can't be in season- 10 years-

    19. AHDr. Andrew Huberman1:18:13

        Yeah

    20. SPSpeaker1:18:13

        ... you know, in a row.

    21. AHDr. Andrew Huberman1:18:14

        Yeah.

    22. SPSpeaker1:18:14

        You've got to find time to relax and have a bye week. It's like if you don't-

    23. AHDr. Andrew Huberman1:18:18

        Mm-hmm

    24. SPSpeaker1:18:18

        ... have a bye week, you're probably gonna get injured eventually.

    25. AHDr. Andrew Huberman1:18:20

        Mm-hmm.

    26. SPSpeaker1:18:20

        So it's just like trying to create that in your own life. Do you do that for yourself as well? Do you have-

    27. AHDr. Andrew Huberman1:18:24

        Definitely. I've got things I do each day, and then I've got things I do on a weekly basis. I'm less good about the annual vacation.

    28. SPSpeaker1:18:30

        [laughs]

    29. AHDr. Andrew Huberman1:18:31

        I've never done it.

    30. SPSpeaker1:18:31

        So are-
11. 1:22:42 – 1:31:52

    Behaviors First, Then Supplements and Drugs, Plus Gratitude

    1. AHDr. Andrew Huberman1:22:42

       For some people, you know, a drink is fine. I'm, I'm focused on behavioral tools.

    2. SPSpeaker1:22:46

       Mm-hmm.

    3. AHDr. Andrew Huberman1:22:46

       You know, supplements and drugs have their place and, you know, some, there are clinically depressed people that need a boost in dopamine or need a boost in serotonin. And I'm, I think even though drugs like Prozac get a bad rap, th- those drugs have also saved millions of lives. There's just an appropriate dose and context, and some people shouldn't take them, right?

    4. SPSpeaker1:23:03

       Well, people also, what I'm hearing you say is you can, should take them when you need them, when you're unable to physically create those habits for yourself and routines for yourself. But then once you take it, you're always gonna need it until you can learn how to behaviorally change your actions.

    5. AHDr. Andrew Huberman1:23:17

       That's right.

    6. SPSpeaker1:23:17

       Right?

    7. AHDr. Andrew Huberman1:23:18

       It's like the obese person that finally, you know, if they really can't move, right? You know, maybe they do need to do some sort of surgical procedure.

    8. SPSpeaker1:23:26

       Like the gastric, yeah.

    9. AHDr. Andrew Huberman1:23:27

       Or they need to, or they need to do something that... But then once they start exercising, you, you, o- I believe you always wanna go behaviors, focus on behaviors first. Get the behaviors dialed in. Everything we've talked about today is free.

    10. SPSpeaker1:23:39

        Yeah.

    11. AHDr. Andrew Huberman1:23:39

        Everything we've talked about is, is self-directed, so it's behaviors. Then I think it, I think diet and, is very important for nutrition. I think supplementation definitely has its place. I think we are past the, the ridiculous idea of the '80s and '90s, like, "Oh, can't you get everything from what you eat?"

    12. SPSpeaker1:23:58

        Right.

    13. AHDr. Andrew Huberman1:23:59

        No one can even agree on what we're supposed to eat.

    14. SPSpeaker1:24:00

        Right.

    15. AHDr. Andrew Huberman1:24:01

        Every scientist I know who's serious about their mind and body takes supplements.

    16. SPSpeaker1:24:05

        Yeah.

    17. AHDr. Andrew Huberman1:24:06

        I don't have a supplement company, I'm gonna be very clear about this, but they all have their regime for them.

    18. SPSpeaker1:24:11

        Mm-hmm.

    19. AHDr. Andrew Huberman1:24:12

        And I think we're seeing a tide change now where supplements are no longer being thought of as this, like, niche thing that only bodybuilders and, like, people who are selling snake oil are about. There is a lot of snake oil out there, but there are also some supplements that are powerful for the sorts of things that we're talking about-

    20. SPSpeaker1:24:26

        Mm-hmm

    21. AHDr. Andrew Huberman1:24:26

        ... for sleep and all the others. We can talk about them if you like. But I think it's, um, behaviors, nutrition, supplements, and then there is a place for prescription drugs. There are people that are clinically depressed and suicidal and need help, and they need to talk to a board-certified MD and get ahold of, in some cases, the opinion of whether or not they should take these drugs. Doesn't mean they should take them forever, but, you know, we tend to jump to drugs, and that's why I think a lot-

    22. SPSpeaker1:24:51

        Yeah

    23. AHDr. Andrew Huberman1:24:51

        ... of those drugs have, they, they won't change your behaviors. You still need to change your behaviors.

    24. SPSpeaker1:24:55

        That's the easy way out to start is taking the drugs-

    25. AHDr. Andrew Huberman1:24:59

        Right

    26. SPSpeaker1:24:59

        ... but what you should be doing is the behavioral, nutrition, supplements. If you do those three things first, you should start to feel better.

    27. AHDr. Andrew Huberman1:25:05

        Oh, absolutely.

    28. SPSpeaker1:25:06

        Yeah.

    29. AHDr. Andrew Huberman1:25:06

        Sunlight in the morning, the things we've talked about. I-

    30. SPSpeaker1:25:08

        Breathing, relaxing, yeah, all these things.
12. 1:31:52 – 1:44:38

    Accelerated Learning, Nootropics and the Will to Live

    1. AHDr. Andrew Huberman1:31:52

       I am pretty confident saying that it's not gonna shorten your life.

    2. SPSpeaker1:31:56

       Mm-hmm.

    3. AHDr. Andrew Huberman1:31:56

       Remember that the dopamine system... And so dopamine and acetylcholine are the primary triggers for adult neuroplasticity. We know this because if you s- there are experiments, um, done by a guy named Mike Merzenich at UCSF, that if you stimulate the areas of the brain that release dopamine and acetylcholine, you can rapidly induce plasticity, like one trial learning.

    4. SPSpeaker1:32:17

       Oh.

    5. AHDr. Andrew Huberman1:32:17

       Like Spanish today.

    6. SPSpeaker1:32:18

       Right.

    7. AHDr. Andrew Huberman1:32:19

       Like fluent in Spanish today.

    8. SPSpeaker1:32:20

       Wow.

    9. AHDr. Andrew Huberman1:32:20

       Which is kinda scary. This is actually the basis of companies that are thinking about-

    10. SPSpeaker1:32:24

        Hmm

    11. AHDr. Andrew Huberman1:32:24

        ... inserting wires into the brain and stimulating.

    12. SPSpeaker1:32:26

        Wait, I could be, I could be fluent in Spanish today?

    13. AHDr. Andrew Huberman1:32:28

        In theory, if you stimulate enough acetylcholine and dopamine release while-

    14. SPSpeaker1:32:33

        [laughs]

    15. AHDr. Andrew Huberman1:32:33

        ... experiencing enough Spanish, you'd probably have to speak that Spanish. You'd probably have to read it.

    16. SPSpeaker1:32:38

        Wow. You could re- remember it and connect it.

    17. AHDr. Andrew Huberman1:32:40

        Yeah. It's, it's possible.

    18. SPSpeaker1:32:42

        It's like Matrix.

    19. AHDr. Andrew Huberman1:32:43

        It's possible.

    20. SPSpeaker1:32:43

        Like, "I know kung fu."

    21. AHDr. Andrew Huberman1:32:44

        Yeah. We're not quite there yet, but it's possible. It's been done in, in other forms of learning in other studies.

    22. SPSpeaker1:32:49

        Really?

    23. AHDr. Andrew Huberman1:32:50

        Yeah. Well, well-

    24. SPSpeaker1:32:50

        What's it called?

    25. AHDr. Andrew Huberman1:32:51

        Well, if you release the... Well, you'd have to actually have an electrode down in your head. I don't know that you wanna drill a hole in your skull.

    26. SPSpeaker1:32:56

        You'd put something in your head-

    27. AHDr. Andrew Huberman1:32:57

        You'd have to drill into your skull

    28. SPSpeaker1:32:58

        ... and put enough dopamine in your-

    29. AHDr. Andrew Huberman1:32:59

        You would s- remember, the dopamine comes from the neurons that are in there, so you'd be stimulating the dopamine neurons, the acetylcholine neurons, and you'd be r- probably reading a Spanish script. There are, I, I will say there are-

    30. SPSpeaker1:33:09

        Shut up. [laughs]
13. 1:44:38 – 1:53:04

    Fear, Fun and Learning Spanish

    1. SPSpeaker1:44:38

       How does someone like you, I don't wanna stereotype a scientist and a professor, but how does someone like you have fun?

    2. AHDr. Andrew Huberman1:44:44

       [laughs]

    3. SPSpeaker1:44:45

       When most scientists are more like lab rats that are just-

    4. AHDr. Andrew Huberman1:44:48

       Yeah

    5. SPSpeaker1:44:48

       ... like focused on the research and the work and getting it done, how do you incorporate play and fun in your life?

    6. AHDr. Andrew Huberman1:44:54

       Well, I love doing science, 'cause to me, being a brain explorer is, like, the coolest thing.

    7. SPSpeaker1:44:58

       It is fun. Yeah.

    8. AHDr. Andrew Huberman1:44:58

       I mean, when I was a little kid, I wanted to be an astronaut.

    9. SPSpeaker1:45:00

       Oh.

    10. AHDr. Andrew Huberman1:45:00

        And then I didn't pursue that path. And but for me, the next best thing is to be a brain explorer-

    11. SPSpeaker1:45:07

        Wow

    12. AHDr. Andrew Huberman1:45:07

        ... and, you know, dig around in the brain and try and understand the brain. And um, but I enjoy, let's see, I, I mean, I'm a little bit of a sicko in the sense that I love music.

    13. SPSpeaker1:45:15

        [laughs]

    14. AHDr. Andrew Huberman1:45:16

        I love food.

    15. SPSpeaker1:45:17

        Yeah.

    16. AHDr. Andrew Huberman1:45:17

        I love to eat, I love to train, I love friendship.

    17. SPSpeaker1:45:20

        Yeah.

    18. AHDr. Andrew Huberman1:45:20

        I, I'm at this point now, and I wasn't always like this. I've definitely experienced depression. I've been there. I, I'm at the point now where maybe it's the gratitude practice, maybe it's the fact that I've been trying to get enough sleep, and I sometimes do, but I'm, I just feel so happy to be in relation to all these opportunities. And the fact that people care about neuroscience and they wanna learn, and that there's a place for me in this world to teach it-

    19. SPSpeaker1:45:44

        Mm

    20. AHDr. Andrew Huberman1:45:44

        ... you know, is just kind of like an endless source of joy. I love movies, music, friendship, training, food.

    21. SPSpeaker1:45:50

        Your dog.

    22. AHDr. Andrew Huberman1:45:51

        My dog.

    23. SPSpeaker1:45:52

        Yeah, yeah, yeah.

    24. AHDr. Andrew Huberman1:45:53

        Um, goodness, uh, art. I, you know, I, I think I've found enough things in the world that I love, that, um, you know, I feel like I have like five time, five lifetimes worth of-

    25. SPSpeaker1:46:05

        Sure

    26. AHDr. Andrew Huberman1:46:05

        ... things to, to pursue.

    27. SPSpeaker1:46:07

        What about fears? Do you have a lot of fears? And how much does fear play into, um, the body and mind connection?

    28. AHDr. Andrew Huberman1:46:15

        Well, the f- fear is huge in the body-mind connection because it can shut us down. I mean, fear can really take us to the point of, you know, from a place of feeling really great to just, it can, like, crump us all at once. And I mean, the, the things that, um... Well, I have several fears. One is, you know, I have this weird, um, history in science where my undergraduate advisor, my graduate advisor, and my postdoc advisor are all dead. They all died young. So it was like, it was suicide-

    29. SPSpeaker1:46:43

        Oh, man

    30. AHDr. Andrew Huberman1:46:43

        ... cancer, cancer. It was really rough, 'cause I was close with all of them. And so I have one major fear, which is dying without getting the information that I-
14. 1:53:04 – 1:59:44

    Three Truths, Where to Follow, and Defining Greatness

    1. SPSpeaker1:53:04

       We'll, we'll, we'll do more and talk about fear and how to overcome fear and all these different things. But this has been fascinating, and I wanna ask you a couple final questions, Andrew. One is, um, called the three truths. So imagine it's your last day on earth, and, uh, you've, you've actually accomplished all of your s- you've gotten all your work out there in the world that you wanted to create.

    2. AHDr. Andrew Huberman1:53:24

       Okay.

    3. SPSpeaker1:53:24

       Your books, your lab results, all the research you got to do, 99% of it, right?

    4. AHDr. Andrew Huberman1:53:29

       Okay.

    5. SPSpeaker1:53:29

       You're always gonna wanna do more.

    6. AHDr. Andrew Huberman1:53:30

       Uh-huh.

    7. SPSpeaker1:53:30

       But you got to do as much as you could.

    8. AHDr. Andrew Huberman1:53:32

       Okay. Yeah.

    9. SPSpeaker1:53:33

       You have books out there, lectures, everything is out in the world that you wanted to do, but it's your last day and you've gotta, for whatever reason, you've gotta take all of your work with you. So this podcast is gone, your books, your results, everything.

    10. AHDr. Andrew Huberman1:53:44

        Oh, wow.

    11. SPSpeaker1:53:45

        So it's all gone, with you to the next place.

    12. AHDr. Andrew Huberman1:53:47

        Okay.

    13. SPSpeaker1:53:47

        Wherever you go.

    14. AHDr. Andrew Huberman1:53:48

        Uh-huh.

    15. SPSpeaker1:53:48

        But you got a pen and a piece of paper, and you get to write down three things you know to be true about your entire life and the lessons you've learned that you would share with the world. And this is all we have to remember you by or your lessons. I call it the three truths.

    16. AHDr. Andrew Huberman1:54:00

        Okay.

    17. SPSpeaker1:54:01

        So what would you say are your three truths?

    18. AHDr. Andrew Huberman1:54:04

        Okay. Well, the first one I'm gonna poach from the Oracle.

    19. SPSpeaker1:54:08

        Mm-hmm.

    20. AHDr. Andrew Huberman1:54:08

        Which is know thyself.

    21. SPSpeaker1:54:10

        Mm-hmm.

    22. AHDr. Andrew Huberman1:54:11

        I do believe that through whatever exploration, whether or not it's therapy, meditation, religious, uh, exercise, all of the above, I think people should, um, explore what they're, you know, sort of how they're showing up in the world.

    23. SPSpeaker1:54:27

        Yeah.

    24. AHDr. Andrew Huberman1:54:27

        And then obviously based on today's discussion, I believe that we can make changes around that, but know thyself. Wish I had said it, but the Oracle.

    25. SPSpeaker1:54:35

        [laughs]

    26. AHDr. Andrew Huberman1:54:35

        Someone beat me to the punch. The second one is, um, it's rather Freudian, but, um, I do think there's a core set of operations about the way we work, um, that are important, is you can imagine three boxes, it's like a three box diagram, and in the first one it would say wish, then there's an arrow next to it, it would say anxiety, and then there would be an arrow, and then the last one would say defense. Typically, we have a wish It creates some anxiety in us, and then we get into some reflexive defensive behavior. For some people, that's addiction. For some people, that's, you know, rabid ambition to the point of neglecting things, whatever the defense is. And I think our job is to intervene between anxiety and defense.

    27. SPSpeaker1:55:18

        Mm-hmm.

    28. AHDr. Andrew Huberman1:55:18

        Or at least come up with defenses that serve humanity-

    29. SPSpeaker1:55:21

        Sure

    30. AHDr. Andrew Huberman1:55:21

        ... so that we're giving as opposed to destroying.

Episode duration: 1:59:44