Trauma Expert: GENERATIONS of PAIN Lives In Your Body. Do THIS to Break Free! | Dr Mariel Buqué

Dr. Mariel Buqué 0:00 Show up as your more healed self. Let people see how you walk and move as a more healed version of yourself. Let them see how you're modeling how you show up differently, and how you no longer feed the cycles, you break them.

Lewis Howes 0:15 Joining us today is licensed trauma psychologist and Columbia University professor, Dr Mariel Buqué. How far back are these traumas linked to?

Dr. Mariel Buqué 0:24 They say it's a- an approximate seven generations.

Lewis Howes 0:27 Seven? So all the trauma's from like 300 years ago then-

Dr. Mariel Buqué 0:30 Yeah

Lewis Howes 0:30 ... are passed down to me.

Dr. Mariel Buqué 0:32 It's said that it's about 255 direct histories, including your own living in you.

Lewis Howes 0:37 Oh my gosh.

Dr. Mariel Buqué 0:38 When it's doubly hard to actually get through something, the reward will be double. There is hope about abundance-

Lewis Howes 0:46 Mm-hmm

Dr. Mariel Buqué 0:46 ... on the other side of healing. Just do the work.

Lewis Howes 0:48 Yes.

Dr. Mariel Buqué 0:49 And trust that there will be abundance on the other side. There will be a steady version of you that is-

Lewis Howes 0:55 Mm-hmm

Dr. Mariel Buqué 0:55 ... meeting you on the other side.

Lewis Howes 0:57 If we don't learn to heal our inner child as adults, what will happen to us?

Dr. Mariel Buqué 1:02 Well, we can actually...

Lewis Howes 1:06 First thing I wanna ask you is about healing trauma without medication and without medicine. 'Cause I think a lot of people when they think about trauma, especially emotional or mental health trauma, they think about what, I might... I'm broken and I need some medication to fix me, to heal me. And I love the work that you do, 'cause you really break down these different types of strategies on healing trauma without medicine or medication. Can you share a few of these key ways to do this, um, if people are just getting started and they feel a sense of overwhelm, stress, and trauma in their body?

Dr. Mariel Buqué 1:44 Yeah, absolutely. You know, whenever we're talking about trauma, it's gonna be critical for us to first start with the body. So the very first place where we need to go to is our nervous system, because that's where trauma is primarily situated. So when we do any of the practices that are gonna help settle our nervous system and help us feel more grounded, that's already gonna be the best start that we have toward healing trauma. Then we can actually get into the digging work. What happened to you? What happened before you?

Lewis Howes 2:16 Hmm.

Dr. Mariel Buqué 2:16 What happened around you? What happened that actually left an imprint in your soul that made it so that you experience this tenderness that we call trauma?

Lewis Howes 2:25 Really?

Dr. Mariel Buqué 2:26 Yeah.

Lewis Howes 2:26 So we should be thinking about body and the nervous system first, not what happened to you at seven years old.

Dr. Mariel Buqué 2:32 No.

Lewis Howes 2:32 You know? What did your parents say to you that hurt you? We shouldn't be asking those questions first.

Dr. Mariel Buqué 2:37 That's correct. You know, whenever we're actually, uh, approaching a therapy session, typically you sit down and the therapist asks you, "Well, what happened? Tell me why you're here."

Lewis Howes 2:46 Right, right, right.

Dr. Mariel Buqué 2:47 Right? And so you start spewing like your entire story. But very often people actually feel traumatized or re-traumatized or triggered by their own stories and their own trauma narrative.

Lewis Howes 2:58 Oh. It causes a heightened nervous system response-

Dr. Mariel Buqué 3:02 Exactly

Lewis Howes 3:02 ... when you tell the story.

Dr. Mariel Buqué 3:03 Yes, because it feels like you're going back there again, because you're telling all the little details of-

Lewis Howes 3:08 Hmm

Dr. Mariel Buqué 3:08 ... everything that happened, and trying to get this person, this therapist or a friend or whomever you're, you're recounting to, trying to get them to understand what happened. But your body's also remembering in that moment. And very often what tends to happen is that people then engage in avoidance strategies, like they no longer wanna touch the, the trauma narrative or their own story, or they drop out of therapy because they no longer wanna actually engage in the conversation that felt so incredibly disregulating.

Lewis Howes 3:36 Wow.

Dr. Mariel Buqué 3:36 So-

Lewis Howes 3:37 They're re-traumatizing themselves when they talk about the experience in the first time, I guess, right?

Dr. Mariel Buqué 3:43 Yeah, because most people don't know that when they approach their own trauma narrative that it can actually like spur up those emotions in them and cause their nervous system to go into that fight, flight, freeze, or fawn.

Lewis Howes 3:56 Wow.

Dr. Mariel Buqué 3:56 Most people are n- are not aware of the fact that just by telling my story, this can happen to me. But if we're actually training folks to engage in their body in a way that helps them to feel more safe, then it allows them to then be able to tell their trauma narrative in a way that actually, um, in a way where they don't actually need to run away from themselves.

Lewis Howes 4:19 So when we're thinking about, uh, a way to heal initially, and we know that we've had some stress, or maybe we're reactive in certain situations, or maybe we feel tightness or, or just not our fullest highest self, and we know that there's been some trauma, but we're not sure how to talk about it or how to heal it, what is something we should be thinking about with our bodies to start this process?

Dr. Mariel Buqué 4:44 Well, the first thing is that we have to befriend our bodies. We have to actually engage in a relationship with our bodies and, and, and really tune in. Most of us don't actually take the moments throughout the day to say, "How's my body feeling right now? Where do I feel the tension? Where am I experiencing in my body this external situation?" Right? And if we can actually train ourselves to just do body scans-

Lewis Howes 5:09 Hmm

Dr. Mariel Buqué 5:09 ... for starters, right? There's so many things that we can do, but for starters just scanning how we feel in our bodies from head to toe, and just getting a sense of how our body is taking in our environments, that's already a really good setup for understanding ourselves better-

Lewis Howes 5:25 Hmm

Dr. Mariel Buqué 5:25 ... and understanding ourselves when we're juxtaposing ourselves with what's happening outside-

Lewis Howes 5:30 Uh

Dr. Mariel Buqué 5:30 ... of ourselves.

Lewis Howes 5:31 So if someone has experienced a level of trauma, but they have no clue if they've actually got a lot of trauma, a little trauma, or somewhere in between, how can they do a trauma assessment within their body scan to know, "Oh, this is actually a big thing that I need to address right away," or, "This is more minor, but I still need to address it"? How can they

Lewis Howes 5:53 scan?

Dr. Mariel Buqué 5:54 Well, you know, it's actually much simpler than what one might imagine, because people can actually just remember, right? Remember what they actually do remember. And then simultaneously- Try and gauge what's happening in their bodies as they're remembering.

Lewis Howes 6:09 Mm.

Dr. Mariel Buqué 6:10 Because-

Lewis Howes 6:10 As they're thinking of the story and the scenario.

Dr. Mariel Buqué 6:12 Exactly.

Lewis Howes 6:13 Are you feeling tightness in your chest or your throat? Are you clenching up? Are you sweating?

Dr. Mariel Buqué 6:18 Yeah.

Lewis Howes 6:18 Right? It's like, what are these symptoms?

Dr. Mariel Buqué 6:19 Yeah. And typically, some of those symptoms correlate with how the nervous system is actually internalizing the story.

Lewis Howes 6:26 Mm.

Dr. Mariel Buqué 6:27 We typically get a knot in our stomach, for example, right? But that's really our nervous system actually shutting down specific functions of the gastrointestinal tract-

Lewis Howes 6:35 Really?

Dr. Mariel Buqué 6:36 ... because we d- actually don't need that for survival in a moment where we're in survival mode. And so our ner-

Lewis Howes 6:42 So if we feel a knot in our stomach, it's almost like we're in fight or flight mode.

Dr. Mariel Buqué 6:45 Exactly.

Lewis Howes 6:46 Just thinking about are we... You know, thinking about a story for 30 seconds or a couple of minutes from something that happened 10, 20, 30 years ago.

Dr. Mariel Buqué 6:54 Mm-hmm.

Lewis Howes 6:55 That's fascinating. So something that happened that long ago can continue to harm and hurt you decades in the future until we learn to heal it.

Dr. Mariel Buqué 7:05 Exactly. It continues to live in the body. It can metabolize in the body then as chronic illness when it goes on unaddressed. And of course, one of the, the biggest risks and repercussions of it going on unaddressed, many times because we just don't know that it's there or that it's something that needs to be addressed, but what can happen is also the possibility of transmission into the next generation. So there's a lot of consequence.

Lewis Howes 7:29 Yes. And that transmission is really you leaving a legacy. You know, do you wanna leave a legacy of peaceful, harmonious, emotional wellbeing, you know, humans, uh, as children, or kids that carry your stress responses-

Dr. Mariel Buqué 7:45 Right

Lewis Howes 7:45 ... and kinda your nervous system responses, right?

Dr. Mariel Buqué 7:47 Yeah, yeah. I always ask parents, like, "Look at your little one and look into their eyes, and think for a moment, do I want them to hurt the way that I have hurt?"

Lewis Howes 7:57 Mm.

Dr. Mariel Buqué 7:58 And that usually is enough for a parent to say, "You know what? Actually, I want to break this cycle because I don't want their little heart to then absorb the kinds of traumas that I've absorbed."

Lewis Howes 8:09 Oh, man.

Dr. Mariel Buqué 8:09 And for them to then be a- the adult that has to then be in search of their emotions or in search of healing because they now have an inner child wound as an adult.

Lewis Howes 8:20 What's the greatest gift a parent can give their child?

Dr. Mariel Buqué 8:23 Oh. The gift of understanding their emotions and understanding how to self-affirm. Because when we can actually know how, what our emotions even are, and what I mean by that is that we have emotions and that they're body centered, right? Like, that we have a really concrete understanding of the full spectrum of our emotions and how they can manifest in our bodies, and then how we can actually do something to validate ourselves through the emotional process. I think that's a beautiful gift that parents can give their children. And when parents do that for themselves and their children, it's a beautiful generational gift.

Lewis Howes 9:02 Yeah, it's beautiful. So the first thing I'm hearing you say is kind of the ways to start healing, is to first do an assessment of the stories and the memories that hurt you and see how the body reacts or responds.

Dr. Mariel Buqué 9:14 Right.

Lewis Howes 9:16 What would be the next step after that? We notice a, a tightness in our stomach, a clenching in our throat, a pain in our chest. What would be the next step to starting that healing process?

Dr. Mariel Buqué 9:25 Step two is relaxation.

Lewis Howes 9:27 Mm.

Dr. Mariel Buqué 9:27 Step two is actually going into any kind of practice you choose, right? But it can be breathwork, it can be meditation, it can be Tai Chi, it can be yoga, it can be so many, that can actually help your body to release some of that tension.

Lewis Howes 9:44 Interesting.

Dr. Mariel Buqué 9:44 And so what we're doing in that very moment is that we're, of course, recognizing that there's a pain that has been there, that has been emotional, that has now a physical manifestation, and that we're also integrating a relaxation, a body relaxation practice to help release that tension, help absolve that tension-

Lewis Howes 10:04 Mm

Dr. Mariel Buqué 10:04 ... from the body.

Lewis Howes 10:05 If we never release it, what happens?

Dr. Mariel Buqué 10:08 It becomes disease.

Lewis Howes 10:09 Wow. So emotional memories turn into physical pain and eventually disease-

Dr. Mariel Buqué 10:16 Yeah

Lewis Howes 10:16 ... in some way.

Dr. Mariel Buqué 10:17 Many of the metabolic conditions that we know about, diabetes for example, um, cardiac conditions, a lot of those can be mapped back to stressors in life. And there's a lot of studies that have been done around even autoimmune conditions being very deeply connected to stressors and to trauma. And more, more recently, there's some studies that also have some correlates to certain cancers. So when we start thinking about what the body is telling us, the body when it's in that state of disease, it's telling us, "I don't feel well because I'm not being taken care of emotionally." And that, you know, it is usually, like, the clue for us to say, "Oh, I need to slow down," when we needed to slow down probably 15, 20 years ago.

Lewis Howes 11:05 [laughs] Right, right, right.

Dr. Mariel Buqué 11:07 Mm-hmm.

Lewis Howes 11:07 So once we, you know, recall the memories, and I guess really reflect, uh, on where we're feeling this pain or reaction in our bodies, the third thing I'm hearing you say is to relax through some type of therapeutic process. Breathwork, meditation, yoga, some type of relaxation process to release it, right?

Dr. Mariel Buqué 11:28 Mm-hmm.

Lewis Howes 11:29 What would be the next

Lewis Howes 11:30 thing? Because a lotta times most people just numb or disassociate the pain, right? We don't truly feel the pain 'cause it's too painful, and so we'll find ways to numb, distract, disassociate, block the memories, um, to not feel that pain. And that can be just as harmful, right? Just to, to numb, block, or disassociate.

Dr. Mariel Buqué 11:51 It can. You know, they're protective factors. They're-

Lewis Howes 11:54 Yes

Dr. Mariel Buqué 11:54 ... they're ways that we protect ourselves from the pain that we truly feel and, and especially the depths of our pain. Some of us just don't want to understand how deeply hurt we have been.

Lewis Howes 12:05 How wrong we've been, you know.

Dr. Mariel Buqué 12:06 How wrong we've been, um.

Lewis Howes 12:07 How unfair, unjust, un- you know, hurtful these things are.

Dr. Mariel Buqué 12:11 Yeah. And, and, you know, like, in, in order to self-preserve, in order to make it through another day, the mind and the body- They're just brilliant, brilliant, like, machines.

Lewis Howes 12:23 Mm.

Dr. Mariel Buqué 12:23 They have mechanized a way to actually protect us from ourselves.

Lewis Howes 12:26 Wow.

Dr. Mariel Buqué 12:27 And so they basically, like, structured all these coping mechanisms that, albeit harmful or maladaptive or not helpful or not connecting when we're talking about relationships, right, um, they can, you know, still help keep you safe for another day. But the alternative to that is to then learn coping skills that actually can be adaptive, connecting, and that can actually be the better recipe for not only your ability to stay within healthy relationships with other people, but also for you to experience, uh, the type of sustainable and, and, uh, long-term mental and physical wellness.

Lewis Howes 13:11 Mm. What's the next step after that, once we start applying some of these self-therapeutic experiences? You know, it might be 10 minutes of breathwork or some type of release. How do we get to a place of truly healing that wound or that memory, you know? And how long does it take of us doing this over and over again? Do we eventually need to process in other ways, through talk therapy or more intensified therapies? What, what's the solution to absolute healing, and is that even a thing?

Dr. Mariel Buqué 13:45 Well, there isn't really a 100%, you know, type of healing that truly exists. I mean, I think that anything that leans in the direction of perfectionism is a myth, including healing, right?

Lewis Howes 13:56 Uh-huh.

Dr. Mariel Buqué 13:57 However, there are ways in which we can live a life that is filled with ease and peace more often than not, and a life in which, if triggers were ever to present themselves, that they would be just subtle-

Lewis Howes 14:10 Yeah

Dr. Mariel Buqué 14:10 ... and tolerable.

Lewis Howes 14:11 Yeah.

Dr. Mariel Buqué 14:12 And that we can have the actual tools, the, the sense of empowerment and agency over our own bodies and minds to actually release that process and move into the next thing that life has-

Lewis Howes 14:24 Right

Dr. Mariel Buqué 14:24 ... you know, for us, rather than being stuck and frozen, which is what tends to happen with trauma.

Lewis Howes 14:28 Sure.

Dr. Mariel Buqué 14:29 But the, the next step really is, you know, I, the, the way that I work is that I integrate a lot of these nervous system restoration practices for a long period of time with folks. And I, I've done it myself and with my family and with kind of everyone and in the book. Um, but this actually is the lengthier part of the work.

Lewis Howes 14:47 Mm.

Dr. Mariel Buqué 14:48 The actual grounding.

Lewis Howes 14:49 This can take months or years.

Dr. Mariel Buqué 14:51 It can take months.

Lewis Howes 14:51 Right? Yeah.

Dr. Mariel Buqué 14:52 It can. It can. And you know, sometimes I, I actually like to give it a bit of context, like, for people who feel like, well, let's say, you know, that I want to do this work, but how much am I gonna have to do in order to really-

Lewis Howes 15:07 Might be a lot. [laughs] It might be a lot. I mean-

Dr. Mariel Buqué 15:10 Yeah. And that's okay

Lewis Howes 15:10 ... and it might feel exhausting.

Dr. Mariel Buqué 15:11 Mm-hmm.

Lewis Howes 15:11 And it might feel overwhelming, and it might feel emotional, and it might feel, you know, like it's all-consuming at times.

Dr. Mariel Buqué 15:19 Yeah. Yeah. All of the above.

Lewis Howes 15:21 Yeah.

Dr. Mariel Buqué 15:21 And, and that's actually, I would even go as far as saying maybe not might, but it will, right?

Lewis Howes 15:28 Mm. Yeah.

Dr. Mariel Buqué 15:28 That's the thing.

Lewis Howes 15:29 For a period of time.

Dr. Mariel Buqué 15:30 Yeah, for a period of time, and it is survivable.

Lewis Howes 15:32 Mm.

Dr. Mariel Buqué 15:33 And if you have the tools to actually help you to settle once things feel like they're getting really heavy, then it's gonna make the experience more tolerable.

Lewis Howes 15:42 Right.

Dr. Mariel Buqué 15:43 And you're not gonna feel like you're thrown into the abyss of your, like, deepest, darkest emotions and have no way out, you're like in a black hole.

Lewis Howes 15:49 Yeah, and there's this, I don't know who's originally said this type of quote or this kind of phrase, but you'll hear people say, you know, "What happened to you is not your fault, but it is your responsibility to overcome it, to heal it, to process it, to, you know, realize what it was and not let it consume your life."

Dr. Mariel Buqué 16:07 Yes.

Lewis Howes 16:08 And I think what you mentioned about, like, higher self, like learning about our nervous systems so we can work with it to become our best, highest self as most often as f- as possible, right?

Dr. Mariel Buqué 16:22 Mm-hmm.

Lewis Howes 16:22 Which means having peace and harmony inside of us as frequent as possible, 'cause that is our true nature, peace and harmony. And I think that's what it comes down to, what are you willing to do to create peace and harmony to actualize your highest self as frequently as you can?

Dr. Mariel Buqué 16:38 Mm-hmm.

Lewis Howes 16:38 It's not about perfection. You're not gonna be this zen person all the time. But that's a beautiful life, living in peace and harmony. Living in suffering and pain and agony and numbing yourself is not a beautiful life. It's a survival mechanism which is useful for a period of time, but not for all of time. And so we just gotta be aware of that.

Dr. Mariel Buqué 16:57 Yeah.

Lewis Howes 16:57 And, and it's gonna take doing some intense, painful work for a period of time for hopefully a lifetime of freedom afterwards.

Dr. Mariel Buqué 17:06 Exactly. Yeah. And like, you know, I, I like to always, like, help people understand that if you're, let's say that the work needs to take a period of two years. Let's just say that. You need to focus. You need to do nervous system restoration practices each and every day for a period of two years. You need to do journaling and some of the digging work and do talk therapy, and you need to, you know, engage in, in, you know, connections with people that help you feel at home.

Lewis Howes 17:34 Mm.

Dr. Mariel Buqué 17:35 All of that needs to be a part of your process. Those two years, when you take into consideration the 40 that you've already lived-

Lewis Howes 17:43 [laughs]

Dr. Mariel Buqué 17:44 ... that have felt awful-

Lewis Howes 17:46 Yeah

Dr. Mariel Buqué 17:46 ... those two years feel like they're really worth it. If you wanna live the next 40-

Lewis Howes 17:51 Mm-hmm

Dr. Mariel Buqué 17:51 ... feeling more abundant, more peaceful, more grounded, more like you know yourself, your true core self, and more like that core self that is now burgeoning from within you, is a reflection of your higher self.

Lewis Howes 18:02 Yes. And I'm just a big believer that flow and abundance does not come to those who are constantly in suffering or holding onto pain.

Dr. Mariel Buqué 18:11 Yes.

Lewis Howes 18:11 It comes to those that have peace, who have clarity, who are relaxed, in a more relaxed state.

Dr. Mariel Buqué 18:17 Yeah.

Lewis Howes 18:17 And that may seem like a nice thing to say, but if you're in your 30s and 40s and you got three kids and you've got, you know, responsibilities and job and you're overstressed- And you're thinking, "I don't have two years of my life, let alone 30 minutes a day to go to the gym.

Lewis Howes 18:33 How can I do this work when I have so much responsibilities, when I've got, you know, a partner that I'm in a relationship with, I've got kids, I've got bills, I've got all these different weights on top of me. Doing this type of work seems like impossible." What do you say to someone like that?

Dr. Mariel Buqué 18:50 It isn't. It actually is really doable because the work requires for you to bake it into your life.

Lewis Howes 18:56 Mm.

Dr. Mariel Buqué 18:56 It's not work that is a task apart from the rest of your life.

Lewis Howes 19:01 It is your life.

Dr. Mariel Buqué 19:01 It is your life.

Lewis Howes 19:02 Yeah.

Dr. Mariel Buqué 19:03 And, you know, the work can actually... The way that I like to structure the work is to make it very accessible, and the reason why I like to make it accessible to anyone is because I want people to do the work.

Lewis Howes 19:15 Yeah, mm-hmm.

Dr. Mariel Buqué 19:16 And I wanna make it as easy as possible. I've gotten that statement so many times. "Well, you know, I'm a mother of three and, you know, they're all really young, and how am, how am I gonna find the time?" I always tell people, "Listen, you have 1,440 minutes in the day. If you take five of those minutes and do a breathwork practice, you're already ahead of the game."

Lewis Howes 19:36 Wow.

Dr. Mariel Buqué 19:37 And if you do that for an entire year, 365 days, what we know, what neuroscience is telling us is that it takes an approximate 3 to 400 repetitions of a nervous system restoration practice for our body memory to start shifting.

Lewis Howes 19:52 Really?

Dr. Mariel Buqué 19:53 So if you take those 365 days, that year of those five minutes, you're already doing work-

Lewis Howes 19:59 Hmm

Dr. Mariel Buqué 19:59 ... that is gonna be monumentally effective in you feeling more settled and like your nervous system is actually, uh, experiencing a lot of ease and calm that it wasn't experiencing before you did

Dr. Mariel Buqué 20:15 the year.

Lewis Howes 20:15 And how, how much is our partners in an intimate relationship picking up on our nervous system wounds, and also our kids picking up just by watching and observing us and being around us? How much do others pick up our pain?

Dr. Mariel Buqué 20:31 It's almost instantaneous, and e- especially the people that are closest to us, but especially children, because children are very, very keen on picking up on non-verbal cues. We actually, when we're like infants, w- that's the way that we understand whether or not the world is safe or not. We actually see the facial expression of an adult that's our caregiver, and if the facial expression is one that mirrors safety, calm, and ease, then w- what we interpret that as is the world is safe, I can be calm. If the adult feels preoccupied, angry, right, like babies pick up on that, and their nervous system is also picking up on that. And so it, it's important for us to actually be more attuned to the ways in which other people also pick up our energy and, and, and perhaps that can offer more motivation for people to actually do the nervous system practices that can actually be helpful for them-

Lewis Howes 21:28 Yeah

Dr. Mariel Buqué 21:28 ... and their families.

Lewis Howes 21:29 If, if a, you know, a parent is watching or listening to this right now and they're thinking, "Wow, my kids are 5 or 12 or 16, and I'm just starting to realize that maybe I was too reactive based on, uh, you know, my nervous system wounds or for many years, or maybe we shouldn't have yelled at each other as parents, you know, in front of our kids. Or we shouldn't have been so reactive in situations that we were explosive when we didn't need to be." And they're starting to realize, oh, okay, this could have some long-term effects on kids, and they've been living that way for a decade with their kids growing up, what can they instantly tell themselves right now about how they've shown up, and what are some actions they can take to start breaking the cycle for themselves and their kids who still have developing minds, who maybe aren't as comfortable talking about emotions yet 'cause they're younger still. How can they start shifting that without thinking, "I've ruined my kids' lives"?

Dr. Mariel Buqué 22:29 Mm-hmm. You know, it- it's important for parents, for anyone really, to understand if I didn't know better, I couldn't do better.

Lewis Howes 22:37 Mm-hmm.

Dr. Mariel Buqué 22:37 So if you didn't know that what you were struggling with was intergenerational trauma because you were exhibiting toxic relationship behaviors that were reflected in your childhood home and you absorbed those as the norm, as a status quo-

Lewis Howes 22:52 Mm-hmm

Dr. Mariel Buqué 22:53 ... then you wouldn't know to actually disrupt those and not pass those on or not, you know, exhibit those in your home.

Dr. Mariel Buqué 22:58 However, it's important that if you now do know better, that you take action.

Lewis Howes 23:04 Mm.

Dr. Mariel Buqué 23:04 That you decide, "Okay, I know that there's a different way, and I understand that the way that I've been behaving is unhealthy."

Lewis Howes 23:11 Yes.

Dr. Mariel Buqué 23:11 "Let me shift." That is already a step in the right direction. When it comes to children, it's important to understand that children can also engage in the healing process.

Lewis Howes 23:22 They can?

Dr. Mariel Buqué 23:23 Yeah. I mean, there's a lot of age-appropriate ways in which we can integrate the work with children. Children can meditate. Children can do breathwork. Children can talk about their emotions. Children can, you know, do dance parties with their parents that actually help them to release some of the-

Lewis Howes 23:38 Hmm

Dr. Mariel Buqué 23:38 ... stress and tension of the day. And all of that can be a large part of what families can do together to actually do some collective healing and engage in age-appropriate types of practices that can help their children not only absorb the healing in the moment, but also understand for the long term, for the entirety of their lives, that they can do something that can help them to heal.

Lewis Howes 24:03 Mm-hmm. That's cool. Yeah, dance par- party and drawing classes together. Just different things. Acting, go, you know, going for a walk out in, out in nature.

Dr. Mariel Buqué 24:12 Yeah.

Lewis Howes 24:13 That's beautiful. What are some... You mentioned these nervous system restoration practices. What are the couple other examples you have for that where we can start healing the nervous system?

Dr. Mariel Buqué 24:23 The, the m- practice that I tend to int- integrate into my work the most is humming

Lewis Howes 24:29 Humming

Dr. Mariel Buqué 24:30 ... humming.

Lewis Howes 24:30 Mm.

Dr. Mariel Buqué 24:30 Yeah. [laughs] Hum-

Lewis Howes 24:32 It's so calming

Dr. Mariel Buqué 24:33 It is very calming, and most people don't know you actually have this tool that you can use whenever-

Lewis Howes 24:40 Mm

Dr. Mariel Buqué 24:40 ... and it can actually help you feel calmer.

Lewis Howes 24:42 Well, humming, I mean, there's so many, you know, there's now science that's backing all this-

Dr. Mariel Buqué 24:47 Mm

Lewis Howes 24:47 ... but this has been the, you know, ancient spiritual leaders have been om-ing and humming for, for thousands of years.

Dr. Mariel Buqué 24:55 Yes.

Lewis Howes 24:56 Uh, because of the... You know, I, I think om is like God, right? It's like you're connecting yourself to God and you're speaking, like source, creator.

Dr. Mariel Buqué 25:05 Mm-hmm.

Lewis Howes 25:06 Breathing it.

Dr. Mariel Buqué 25:07 Yes.

Lewis Howes 25:07 And there's chemicals involved, there's dopamine involved, and it's calming, like this feeling in your heart is starting to like get into a better rhythm, right?

Dr. Mariel Buqué 25:16 Yes.

Lewis Howes 25:16 So there's all these benefits to this.

Dr. Mariel Buqué 25:17 Yes. And when we think about it from, you know, just integrating the nervous system perspective into that as well,

Dr. Mariel Buqué 25:24 there is, you know, like we have like different branches of the nervous system, and the branch that actually helps us to feel relaxed and calm is the ventral vagal nerve, which is what tends to be stimulated when we om.

Lewis Howes 25:38 When we om.

Dr. Mariel Buqué 25:38 Yes.

Lewis Howes 25:39 Interesting.

Dr. Mariel Buqué 25:39 And so, and so, or when we hum, right? Like, typically, like if I'm doing work with a family and, or with a child, you know, sometimes I'll pick a song that they like, and we'll hum the song instead of singing it.

Lewis Howes 25:51 Mm.

Dr. Mariel Buqué 25:52 And that already is an age-appropriate practice that we can do that integrates the practice that we understand is gonna be restorative to their nervous system. But we're not necessarily like shoving mental health-

Lewis Howes 26:02 Right

Dr. Mariel Buqué 26:02 ... you know, down their throat.

Lewis Howes 26:03 Right, right. [laughs] Just therapy talk all day. Yeah.

Dr. Mariel Buqué 26:05 Right. Right. But we're, we're doing something that can be very health promoting. Now eventually, you know, people catch on and they say, "That made me feel relaxed. That made me feel more at ease, especially when I had all these like floating thoughts that just wouldn't go away." And so when these children are then older, they have the tools, and that's what I want for us. I want for us to be able to be the generation of cycle breakers that can build the tools for ourselves and for the next generation. And even if we want to, maybe like pass some of that back. My parents are 65 and 71, and I do this stuff with them.

Lewis Howes 26:38 Mm.

Dr. Mariel Buqué 26:39 And they're open and willing, and they're Dominican parents, like-

Lewis Howes 26:41 Wow

Dr. Mariel Buqué 26:41 ... which I would've [laughs] never thought would-

Lewis Howes 26:43 Sure

Dr. Mariel Buqué 26:43 ... you know, like do anything that was related to mental health, period. But they're so willing right now after a couple years of talking-

Lewis Howes 26:51 [laughs] Yeah, yeah, yeah

Dr. Mariel Buqué 26:51 ... talking it through. And it's beautiful to see how they have never really had any kind of like foundational orientation around how they can feel more settled, and now they do, and that in their old age they can actually feel more at ease in their own bodies. It's beautiful.

Lewis Howes 27:07 If someone's in a, in a marriage, um, and they realize they wanna break the cycle, and they're willing to do the work themselves, but maybe their partner isn't as open yet,

Lewis Howes 27:19 and they're, they're realizing like, "Oh, this person, you know, I wanna do this work, I'm healing, but this person's still in a nervous system reactive state and unwilling to break their own cycle," what can they do if they're the only one trying to grow and their, their partner is not?

Dr. Mariel Buqué 27:36 That's a really tough situation. And you know, we have to empathize with anyone that is in any kind of environment, particularly a home environment in which they have to go back to the source of their pain, right?

Lewis Howes 27:49 Sure.

Dr. Mariel Buqué 27:50 Or, or back to a place where their safety is compromised in any way, their, their sense of psychological safety, I mean. And so, you know, w- what I tend to help people reorganize in terms of like their own thinking around this is like show up as your more healed self. Let people see how you walk and move as a more healed version of yourself. Model for them, whether it's your kids, it's your parents, it's your partner, it's friends, right? Like anyone. Let them see how you're modeling how you show up differently and how you no longer feed the cycles, but you break them.

Lewis Howes 28:29 Mm.

Dr. Mariel Buqué 28:30 And then see who is willing to join you in that process.

Lewis Howes 28:34 Right. And there may be, you know, months of resistance and challenge where you've gotta keep showing up as a healed person, or in the process while someone's reactive or crossing your boundaries, you've gotta keep creating those boundaries-

Dr. Mariel Buqué 28:47 Mm-hmm

Lewis Howes 28:47 ... which is a challenging thing to do.

Dr. Mariel Buqué 28:49 It's one of the biggest, uh, barriers to people being able to continue their cycle breaking process, which is going i- into the spaces that where people have not actually done the work, and them feeling like, "What am I even doing this for?"

Lewis Howes 29:03 Right.

Dr. Mariel Buqué 29:03 Like, I may as well just like, you know-

Lewis Howes 29:04 Let it go and just-

Dr. Mariel Buqué 29:05 Let it go

Lewis Howes 29:06 ... play their game.

Dr. Mariel Buqué 29:07 Right.

Lewis Howes 29:07 It's so challenging.

Dr. Mariel Buqué 29:08 It is very challenging. And it's, you know, a process that also is gonna require that they, in essence, like just, um, tolerate the distress, which is why distress tolerance skills are so important when it comes to trauma-based work. Because we have to train the mind and body to tolerate the guilt, tolerate the guilt of being the one that's doing the work and leaving others behind, right?

Lewis Howes 29:34 Mm.

Dr. Mariel Buqué 29:34 Like that, that sometimes tends to be like how people feel about their healing. And so when we're, when we're able to reorganize the body and how it's actually internalizing that emotion, it helps them to sit with whatever guilt may still be lingering in a more settled way and not just throw in the towel.

Lewis Howes 29:54 What do you think of all the different traumas that you've worked on at your clinic and worked on with individuals, all the different types of traumas, abandonment, abuse, neglect, uh, all these different things, bullying, you know, being cheated on, all these different things, what one is the hardest trauma to overcome that you've seen or takes the longest for people to psychologically wrap their heads around the wounds that they've received? You know, grieve, forgive, own, move on, process. Which one is typically the hardest to overcome?

Dr. Mariel Buqué 30:33 What I have seen has been the hardest and what I have seen, like, people struggle with the most and has taken the most time has been abuse. Childhood abuse specifically.

Lewis Howes 30:42 Them experiencing childhood abuse?

Dr. Mariel Buqué 30:44 Them experiencing it, yeah. From a trusted adult, someone who either cared for them or someone who was proximal to them, and the experience of feeling almost kind of like their entire life formation was around that experience also being a part of it.

Lewis Howes 31:03 Right.

Dr. Mariel Buqué 31:04 And then ha- having to extract that from all the layers of how it became a part of them is, is something that can be really, really hard. But also there's people that can live really abundant lives once they-

Lewis Howes 31:17 Mm-hmm

Dr. Mariel Buqué 31:17 ... start doing the work in that direction.

Lewis Howes 31:20 Yes.

Dr. Mariel Buqué 31:20 Usually wherever we feel the biggest triggers, that's where the work is.

Lewis Howes 31:24 Yeah. Well-

Dr. Mariel Buqué 31:24 And so when we can centralize the work there in that trig- triggered space, right, it makes it so that, um, we can experience probably the, the better part of our healing.

Lewis Howes 31:34 Mm-hmm. I guess in storytelling mythology, there's, there's heroes and there's villains, and they have a similar backstory. They've both been abused or abandoned or something happened to them, right? And the villain uses that pain to hurt others, and the hero, uh, you know, works with that pain, transforms it into making sure that others don't have that pain ever again, right? And I probably had both of those in my life of, like, I've used the pain to try to be angry at others and, like, dominate and win in sports, and then I've found transformation and been like, "I don't want anyone to feel this pain ever again." And so I think we have a decision at different times of life of, like, how we're gonna use this trauma or this memory or this, this experience for us. You know, are we gonna live it to harm others or to help others and be in service? And I think it's really tricky, speaking from ex- uh, experience, as an adult mind trying to understand, you know, your 5, 7, 12, 15-year-old self who was sexually abused, childhood mind that's still stored inside of you. It's hard to reflect back and recall all those moments, and then think about how you carried that trauma until the adult mind is reflecting on it.

Dr. Mariel Buqué 32:53 Mm-hmm.

Lewis Howes 32:53 Process however many years that is and all the decisions you've made your entire life, why you've been reactive, relationships you've gotten in, challenges you might have, good that might come from it, too, and then learn how to heal that time. It's like, it's kind of a mind... You know, it's a, it's a mind mess. You know, it's, it's tricky. And so I think you're, you know, you're probably right in that that's probably a painful one to overcome. I know there's lots of different traumas, but that one's definitely painful. But I know from experience that there is incredible peace and love on the other side if you're willing to do the work.

Dr. Mariel Buqué 33:33 Mm-hmm.

Lewis Howes 33:34 Took me a couple years to really kinda feel like I could speak about it without having a nervous system response anymore.

Dr. Mariel Buqué 33:41 Yeah, yeah.

Lewis Howes 33:42 But I think also when you realize you can overcome something like that, it gives you a lot of confidence, a lot of poise, a lot of power, a lot of peace, and knowing, "Okay, if I can take on this as a 5, 7, 10-year-old, what can I take on as an adult with these tools that you're providing?" So I think it's a great, you know, it's a great thing that you're sharing these tools, because a lot of adults don't have them still, and I'm still learning as many tools as possible.

Dr. Mariel Buqué 34:08 Yeah.

Lewis Howes 34:10 But why is that so challenging for adult minds to understand sexual abuse or some type of abuse as a child? Why is it hard for adult minds to understand that and overcome it?

Dr. Mariel Buqué 34:25 Well, because there's been a, a really pervasive intrusion. You know, like a, a person feels like they are accessible to people. Like, they, like, people can hurt them, right? You know, they're vulnerable, and they remain stuck in that vulnerability.

Lewis Howes 34:40 Yes.

Dr. Mariel Buqué 34:41 And so the, the challenge in our adult lives is in the fact that that vulnerability just got carried on, and we, we still feel raw and open and vulnerable and, like, tender to the touch, and people can actually hurt us easily. And so that's why very often, like, people also develop the coping mechanisms to try and protect themselves.

Lewis Howes 35:03 Mm-hmm.

Dr. Mariel Buqué 35:03 S- Because they don't wanna land in a similar situation-

Lewis Howes 35:07 Right

Dr. Mariel Buqué 35:07 ... where they're, you know, then, then there's yet another intrusion, and how will they then survive that, right?

Lewis Howes 35:12 Mm-hmm.

Dr. Mariel Buqué 35:13 And so it, you know, it, it's, it makes it... I always say, you know, when, when it's doubly hard to actually get through something, the reward will be double.

Lewis Howes 35:24 Right. Even more. It'll be even e- exponential, right? I think so.

Dr. Mariel Buqué 35:28 And I think your, your story, you know, which I know y- you've spent many years now sharing, and I, I think that it offers a, a beautiful moment for all of us to also reflect upon the fact that there is hope about abundance-

Lewis Howes 35:43 Mm-hmm

Dr. Mariel Buqué 35:43 ... on the other side of healing. Because most of us think, like, "When will this ever end? Will I ever heal?" And we kinda get stuck in that narrative-

Lewis Howes 35:50 Yes

Dr. Mariel Buqué 35:51 ... rather than in the narrative of just do the work-

Lewis Howes 35:54 Yes

Dr. Mariel Buqué 35:54 ... and trust that there will be abundance on the other side. There will be-

Lewis Howes 35:58 Mm

Dr. Mariel Buqué 35:58 ... a steady version of you that is-

Lewis Howes 36:01 Mm-hmm

Dr. Mariel Buqué 36:01 ... meeting you on the other side.

Lewis Howes 36:02 Yeah. I, I started the healing journey 10 years ago with this, with the sexual abuse that I experienced as a kid, and I thought that I had a- healed a lot of it, but I still kept... And I did in certain areas, but I still kept entering relationships that proved otherwise [laughs] a- and allowing myself to be kind of cross certain boundaries that I, I didn't want to, right? Um, 'cause I didn't have the skills or the courage to be able to stand for the inner child inside of me and what he really needed. ... during certain relationships. And so it wasn't until about three years ago when I kind of revisited it again through intimacy. Like, I was able to heal in some areas, but not every area. And that's when it took even more work. It was, like, an extra couple years. So, you know, I feel like healing is a journey. It doesn't, like, mean, "Okay, I've done six months of intensive work. Now I'm good." Like, new things might come up in a couple years that you have to readdress. And, uh, at least that's what's happened for me. But it... But not thinking you've got it all figured out, I think, is something we need to, to have in mind. Be like, "Okay, I don't know all the answers. Even if I feel better, I'm gonna keep working and processing." If we don't learn to heal our inner child as adults, what will happen to

Lewis Howes 37:20 us?

Dr. Mariel Buqué 37:20 Well, we can actually develop the same type of inner child wound in our children.

Lewis Howes 37:27 Ooh.

Dr. Mariel Buqué 37:28 Yeah.

Lewis Howes 37:29 So they don't have to experience the wound. We're just passing it on, right?

Dr. Mariel Buqué 37:32 Mm-hmm. Yeah. And, and, you know, that comes up. Of course, you know, we're talking about intergenerational trauma having some biological, you know, connections, right? Like, so there's already a family that perhaps is already, from a nervous system perspective, from perhaps an epigenetic perspective, already having tenderness and vulnerabilities-

Lewis Howes 37:54 Hmm

Dr. Mariel Buqué 37:54 ... that are emotional. And then you have, you know, the, the possibility of there being, like, misattunement between a caregiver and their child. The caregiver may be so preoccupied with their own stress and trauma that they miss the social cues that their child is telling them, "I need you." And that sense of emotional abandonment, you know, can surface. Or a- an inability to really relate to and connect with others, which is kind of like the, the general foundation of, like, attachment and attachment styles, right? A lot of those things can start to surface as a result of those initial imprints of, of the relationships that are primary to us, which are with our caregivers or individuals that are, in essence, taking care of us, in the school system, any of the individuals that have proximity. And then, you know, it, it, it's gonna be really important for us to also understand that whenever we're talking about, like, not wanting that to carry on to the next generation, not wanting that tender little soul in front of us to then experience the pain that we-

Lewis Howes 38:54 Ugh

Dr. Mariel Buqué 38:54 ... have carried for so long, we have to talk about how we can also heal our own wounds. We need to re-parent ourselves while we're also parenting others.

Lewis Howes 39:04 Right.

Dr. Mariel Buqué 39:04 So it's an intergenerational re-parenting.

Lewis Howes 39:06 Something just came up for me as you were saying this, because I think a lot of... I'm not a parent yet, but I f- I s- I get the sense and the feeling that a lot of parents in America today are very protective of their kids. You know, I, I see this. Maybe it's not everywhere, but I see a lot of that happening. They're more worried about, you know, who they're hanging out with. I hear a lot of parents say, "I'm never gonna let my kid do sleepovers anymore. You know, I, I'm taking him out of p- public school because it doesn't feel safe," or whatever it is, right? They're just more protective, as opposed to allowing their children to kind of fumble and learn along the way. And I'm, I'm curious in your perspective from what you've experienced and what you've seen with your clients, your patients. Is it worse to allow our children to be, you know, free in the world and be vulnerable to potential harm, or is it worse to over-protect them and pass on our own traumas and wounds because we keep them so close to our wounded self?

Dr. Mariel Buqué 40:08 Hmm. You know, I would say that it is important for us to actually allow them to have some connection to the world that isn't necessarily over-protected by us. However, it is gonna be really critical for us to, as parents or parents to be, to also vet the environments that they're a part of.

Lewis Howes 40:34 Mm-hmm.

Dr. Mariel Buqué 40:34 We need to vet the people that are their babysitters, and ask them questions that are taboo, that are uncomfortable-

Lewis Howes 40:41 Hmm

Dr. Mariel Buqué 40:41 ... that are likely to actually protect our children.

Lewis Howes 40:44 Right.

Dr. Mariel Buqué 40:44 You know?

Lewis Howes 40:45 Be uncomfortable with your questioning.

Dr. Mariel Buqué 40:46 Be uncomfortable with your questioning so that you, you don't have to live a life of discomfort because you didn't ask the question-

Lewis Howes 40:52 Some regret, yeah

Dr. Mariel Buqué 40:52 ... and properly vet the person.

Lewis Howes 40:53 Right.

Dr. Mariel Buqué 40:54 And then something would've happened that could've been avoidable. Not always, right? We can't say that-

Lewis Howes 40:59 Mm-hmm

Dr. Mariel Buqué 40:59 ... you know, it's, the onus is on parents. The onus is really on people who, um, you know, just aren't protective of the children that they're connected to. But beyond that vetting process, right, which is a vetting process that is permissive because you're also allowing the child to be in the world and explore-

Lewis Howes 41:19 Mm-hmm

Dr. Mariel Buqué 41:19 ... and understand and enjoy the world and fumble and pick themselves back up. And what we know about that process is that that also builds resiliency, right?

Lewis Howes 41:27 Mm-hmm.

Dr. Mariel Buqué 41:27 And so we need that process in our lives in order to actually be resilient adults. But it's also gonna be critical, as I see it, specifically as cycle-breaking parents, for, for us to then transition into also being advocates on behalf of our children. We need to also, when whatever way is possible, advocate for the systems that they're a part of for them to keep them safe.

Lewis Howes 41:52 Mm-hmm.

Dr. Mariel Buqué 41:52 Right? Like a- advocate for better safety in schools.

Lewis Howes 41:55 Yeah.

Dr. Mariel Buqué 41:56 Which w- you know, as we see in the, today's world, especially in the US, is, like, really compromised. And, you know, also advocate for the laws that hold people accountable when they hurt children.

Lewis Howes 42:08 Right.

Dr. Mariel Buqué 42:08 Right? And it's like all of these things that are also systemic are also gonna be a part of the process of how we parent forward-

Lewis Howes 42:16 Right

Dr. Mariel Buqué 42:16 ... in a way that's different.

Lewis Howes 42:17 Sure.

Lewis Howes 42:18 What about the epigenetic element of this? You know, this is, um, how much of trauma is genetic versus kind of emotional mirroring and then passing on through just environment, space, emotions onto another tra- uh, nervous system? Is it a genetic thing that we carry or is it more of like we're just observing it all day long in these responses?

Dr. Mariel Buqué 42:45 Well, what we know about intergenerational trauma, it is the only type of trauma that has a bit of both.

Lewis Howes 42:51 Oh.

Dr. Mariel Buqué 42:51 Right? So it actually can be found at the intersection of our biology, which is all of those, you know, kind of epigenetic factors and our nervous system and really kind of like the structure of our biology really early on, cellular memory, all of those things, and our psychology, which is in essence kind of everything that happens thereafter, right? Like, um, after we're formed, after we're born, after, you know, we're out of the womb, there's a lot of interactions that we have with people, with systems. Like, all of those interactions then actually create a certain experience, an emotional experience that can trigger a trauma response or perhaps never allow it to surface. And so it's a little bit of both.

Lewis Howes 43:35 Mm-hmm.

Dr. Mariel Buqué 43:36 You know? But the thing about coming from families that they themselves have had any kind of trauma that has been longstanding and has been held in the body and has been held in their behaviors is that typically what tends to happen is that our bodies actually reflect the trauma that we have engaged in, the trauma that our bodies are constantly trying to fight, right? Like our... When our bodies are in this nervous system, uh, alert and threat response for an extended period of time, it actually can transition the ways in which our genes actually turn on or off, which is the, the general premise of epigenetics. Whatever is happening in our environment socially is impacting the ways in which our genes are turning on or off. And so what happens at conception is that both parents actually have genetic markers or genetic messaging-

Lewis Howes 44:37 Mm

Dr. Mariel Buqué 44:37 ... that actually gets translated to-

Lewis Howes 44:39 To your offspring

Dr. Mariel Buqué 44:40 ... a baby at conception, including, of course, you know, all the physical features and things like that, but also including a lot of these other things that are a part of just the, the general emotional makeup that a child can be born into.

Lewis Howes 44:54 Wow. So if both parents don't break their g- intergenerational traumas, they're passing down two different sets of multiple layers of traumas from family history into the child.

Dr. Mariel Buqué 45:06 Yeah, and it gets a l- really, really layered and complicated because-

Lewis Howes 45:10 Oh my gosh

Dr. Mariel Buqué 45:10 ... I know. It's, it's, it's a lot.

Lewis Howes 45:12 [laughs] It's like the trauma of every-

Dr. Mariel Buqué 45:14 I know

Lewis Howes 45:14 ... one in your tree.

Dr. Mariel Buqué 45:15 Yeah.

Lewis Howes 45:15 How far back do these traumas link to? Is it, like-

Dr. Mariel Buqué 45:18 They say that-

Lewis Howes 45:18 ... the great-grandparents or...?

Dr. Mariel Buqué 45:20 They say it's a, an approximate seven generations.

Lewis Howes 45:22 Seven?

Dr. Mariel Buqué 45:23 [laughs]

Lewis Howes 45:23 Oh my gosh.

Dr. Mariel Buqué 45:24 And there's a possibility that it might be 14 based on-

Lewis Howes 45:27 What?

Dr. Mariel Buqué 45:27 ... some newer studies.

Lewis Howes 45:28 Oh my. Un-

Dr. Mariel Buqué 45:29 I know

Lewis Howes 45:29 ... un- until you break the cycle, it goes back seven to 14 generations?

Dr. Mariel Buqué 45:34 Yeah. And it's, you know, when I... [laughs]

Lewis Howes 45:36 So all the, all the traumas of my s- you know, from like 300 years ago then-

Dr. Mariel Buqué 45:42 Yeah, yeah

Lewis Howes 45:43 ... are passed down to me.

Dr. Mariel Buqué 45:45 It's said that it's about 255 direct histories, including your own living in you.

Lewis Howes 45:50 Oh my gosh.

Dr. Mariel Buqué 45:51 Which is why this, this-

Lewis Howes 45:52 Seems overwhelming. [laughs]

Dr. Mariel Buqué 45:53 I know, I know, which is why it's, it's so critical that because it is transferable messaging that is there in our bodies-

Lewis Howes 46:03 Mm

Dr. Mariel Buqué 46:04 ... it's important that we go back to the body. That's why when we do these talk therapies, they can be good for an extent, uh, of the work that needs to be done, right? But not necessarily for when we're talking about layered trauma, when we're talking about these traumas-

Lewis Howes 46:20 Mm-hmm

Dr. Mariel Buqué 46:20 ... that have been there for generations and that have these imprints and have th- these ways of coming up in ways you would never imagine, right? Sometimes a scent just completely takes you back to two generations ago.

Lewis Howes 46:32 Oh my gosh.

Dr. Mariel Buqué 46:33 And that's also s- you know, been widely studied, you know, in the ways that our senses are actually... You know, they capture memory imprints from generations past. And so all of that is a part of it. [laughs]

Lewis Howes 46:45 Do we have memory imprint? Do we have past lives that we have memory imprints-

Dr. Mariel Buqué 46:49 [laughs]

Lewis Howes 46:49 ... of like all the things we went through there too? Or is it only from our current gener- generations?

Dr. Mariel Buqué 46:55 Well-

Lewis Howes 46:55 From our past generations

Dr. Mariel Buqué 46:56 ... well, it's said that, you know, a- at least, we have at least, like seven or so possibilities of generations that can actually-

Lewis Howes 47:06 Oh my gosh

Dr. Mariel Buqué 47:06 ... um, now the studies have, have only gone as far back as two generations.

Lewis Howes 47:10 Mm-hmm.

Dr. Mariel Buqué 47:11 Um, an- and especially, I believe, in humans. But at the very least, we know that it, that there can be, like, for example, a scent that can actually be translated forward. Like, I had this one-

Lewis Howes 47:23 That's crazy

Dr. Mariel Buqué 47:23 ... this one client that I actually... Um, I f- I found that the work with this person was so, like, just... It, it felt like it, you know, all of the things that I had been learning about that were research-based were now being represented in this person. But the, the most interesting to me was the fact that he actually had a grandfather who had actually been, um, attacked at a park by some random person who had actually had coffee prior to the attack, and he survived the attack. But then he actually didn't have kids yet, but n- then he had a daughter, and that daughter actually found the smell of coffee to be repulsive.

Lewis Howes 48:02 Wow.

Dr. Mariel Buqué 48:03 And then another generation forward, my client, actually could not stand the smell of coffee.

Lewis Howes 48:08 Wow.

Dr. Mariel Buqué 48:09 And so, you know, we started digging through some of those layers and, and it, it made a lot of sense through the studies that have been done around, you know, the, the ways that these, like, um, these kinds of smells and the ways that we respond to them through the generations are there to almost protect us.

Lewis Howes 48:26 Mm-hmm.

Dr. Mariel Buqué 48:26 Because the smell of coffee is telling this generations of family, of this family-

Lewis Howes 48:31 Danger

Dr. Mariel Buqué 48:32 ... there's danger.

Lewis Howes 48:33 Yeah.

Dr. Mariel Buqué 48:33 Yeah. And so you-

Lewis Howes 48:33 It's not safe

Dr. Mariel Buqué 48:34 ... must protect yourself.

Lewis Howes 48:35 Watch out.

Dr. Mariel Buqué 48:35 Exactly.

Lewis Howes 48:35 There's something around here.

Dr. Mariel Buqué 48:36 Don't go there. There's coffee-

Lewis Howes 48:38 That is fascinating

Dr. Mariel Buqué 48:38 ... in the area. Mm-hmm.

Lewis Howes 48:40 Wow, how the body and the nervous system and the memory can transfer into different cells.

Dr. Mariel Buqué 48:45 Yeah.

Lewis Howes 48:45 That's fascinating.

Dr. Mariel Buqué 48:46 It's a forward planning, um, process that our, our bodies do in order to, to help us survive as a species.

Lewis Howes 48:53 I mean, I guess if you think about just Yeah, evolution.

Dr. Mariel Buqué 48:57 Mm-hmm.

Lewis Howes 48:57 You know, animals evolved their bodies so that they could survive the environments. So humans, I guess it makes sense that we evolve our senses so that we can survive our emotional or psychological environments as well.

Dr. Mariel Buqué 49:10 Precisely, yeah.

Lewis Howes 49:11 That is fascinating.

Dr. Mariel Buqué 49:13 Mm-hmm.

Lewis Howes 49:14 It seems like the world is, is very over-medicated right now.

Dr. Mariel Buqué 49:18 Mm-hmm.

Lewis Howes 49:19 And I'm not saying, I'm not saying there's not a need for medication in certain cases, but when it's over-medication without applying therapeutic, natural therapeutic healing remedies, I feel like that's a problem-

Dr. Mariel Buqué 49:33 Yeah

Lewis Howes 49:33 ... personally.

Dr. Mariel Buqué 49:34 Mm-hmm.

Lewis Howes 49:34 'Cause I don't feel like it's allowing your body to fully heal if you're just constantly on medication. What's your thoughts around trauma healing and medication? When should we take medication? Should we try other therapies first before applying medication? Do we need medication to heal? What's your thoughts on this?

Dr. Mariel Buqué 49:57 I'm a big proponent of, uh, the idea that medication is something that can be used on a temporary basis, and mostly when there's crisis involved.

Lewis Howes 50:09 Right. When it's too much to-

Dr. Mariel Buqué 50:11 Yeah

Lewis Howes 50:11 ... to think clearly.

Dr. Mariel Buqué 50:13 Mm-hmm.

Lewis Howes 50:13 Right?

Dr. Mariel Buqué 50:13 Yeah. Like the person is just in a place that, where they, they're not reachable. Like, we can't like-

Lewis Howes 50:19 Mm-hmm

Dr. Mariel Buqué 50:19 ... you know, pull them out of that state of dissociation or emotional shutdown in, in order to actually start doing the work.

Lewis Howes 50:25 Mm-hmm.

Dr. Mariel Buqué 50:26 Then medication can be really helpful in just getting through those moments. But you know, medication I see a, a bit of like a Band-Aid, right? Like, you know, just placing the Band-Aid on the wound so that the wound can, you know, like then start to heal.

Lewis Howes 50:39 Right.

Dr. Mariel Buqué 50:39 And then we, we rip it off and we, we allow the wound to then do what it needs to do in order to reform into the skin, right?

Lewis Howes 50:47 Mm-hmm.

Dr. Mariel Buqué 50:48 But very often, we don't, we don't take off the Band-Aid.

Lewis Howes 50:51 Right.

Dr. Mariel Buqué 50:51 We just leave it there.

Lewis Howes 50:51 Or if you're always staying medicated, you're never actually able to do the work.

Dr. Mariel Buqué 50:54 Exactly. Or people are being medicated without the, what's supposed to be supplements or ancillary work, which is therapy or other kinds of modalities that can actually promote some sort of healing-

Lewis Howes 51:07 Mm-hmm

Dr. Mariel Buqué 51:07 ... and restructuring of the mind in how a person is taking in their emotional experiences so that they do some learning, and then apply different coping skills that then become default, and then they don't, they don't need the medication.

Lewis Howes 51:20 Yeah. So you never really learn to integrate the lessons.

Dr. Mariel Buqué 51:24 Yeah.

Lewis Howes 51:24 When, unless you're using medication, you're integrating at the same time, then hopefully you can get off the medication-

Dr. Mariel Buqué 51:29 Mm-hmm

Lewis Howes 51:30 ... because you're doing the work.

Dr. Mariel Buqué 51:31 Yes.

Lewis Howes 51:31 But if you're taking medication, you're not doing the work, and you're not integrating lessons into the body, you're always gonna need the medication, I guess, to disassociate or numb the pain or something, right?

Dr. Mariel Buqué 51:41 Yeah, yeah. You're gonna be reliant upon it and, you know, there's different kinds of dependencies, right? And, and s- some of the dependencies are very biological, but some are, are more psychological dependency on-

Lewis Howes 51:53 Mm-hmm

Dr. Mariel Buqué 51:53 ... medications.

Lewis Howes 51:54 Yeah.

Dr. Mariel Buqué 51:54 Like, "I need my meds," but versus, "This medication is really helping me to get through this stage of the process so that I can get into this stage of the process."

Lewis Howes 52:04 Mm, that's the way we should be thinking about it.

Dr. Mariel Buqué 52:06 Mm-hmm.

Lewis Howes 52:07 You know, something you mentioned before, you know, about peace, I'm a big believer, my philosophy on life is we should be thinking about our habits and our behaviors to support us having the most harmony and peace possible, right? So that when we're in a relaxed state, we can see wider, we can see things clearer, we can make better decisions. We feel better, more calm. We feel more abundant from a peaceful, harmonious state. But I lived most of my life not feeling peaceful. You know, I felt very anxious, very, like, driven to achieve constantly because I felt like I, it was never enough. And, um, even when I did achieve big things, I still didn't feel like it was good enough, so I had to go after the next thing. Like, I felt like I was in a state of anxiety and constantly needing to create and do more. Like, I felt very anxious. I wasn't able to sleep at night that well for most of my life until I started the healing process. And I, and I realized, and I, and I thought to myself, "Oh, what I'm doing is working 'cause I'm getting results." Like, I'm achieving as an athlete, I'm... You know, I have a, a business that's growing, whatever it might be. I'm able to get things done. But I still didn't feel good. I didn't feel enough and I didn't feel calm. And I think it wasn't until I started to realize, like, oh, I'm in constant mental breakdown, and I'm getting results, but I feel like there's no peace. That's when I started to realize I've gotta dive in and do some emotional healing, some emotional work, some psychological, um, I guess, therapies to support me in merging the m- both worlds. How can I accomplish what I want but also have peace and harmony? Knowing that it's not gonna be some perfect thing where I never have, you know, discomfort, but how can I have more peace and harmony inside of me? And I think that's the main thing that I try to talk about in, in, in life as a philosophy, and I love that you talk about this higher self, you know, nervous system. It's like, what is the h- your nervous system's highest self want? It wants to feel calm. It wants to feel relaxed.

Dr. Mariel Buqué 54:17 Yeah.

Lewis Howes 54:17 It wants to feel safe. And I think it's really important to go through your book and assess and ask yourself, "Where am I allowing myself to fall short here with my nervous system?" And if I can heal the nervous system in the body, then I'm gonna have a lot more abundance and peace in my life. Is that what I'm-

Dr. Mariel Buqué 54:41 Yeah

Lewis Howes 54:41 ... you know, picking up with, with everything that you're talking about here?

Dr. Mariel Buqué 54:44 Absolutely. What, what you're referencing in reference to the goals that you were achieving was what, in the science of behaviorism, we call

Dr. Mariel Buqué 54:52 positive reinforcement. So you're getting actually reinforced by working. You get reinforced-

Lewis Howes 54:57 Mm-hmm

Dr. Mariel Buqué 54:57 ... because you get the results, then you work more and you get the results again, right? And so the same can actually happen. We can apply the same- ... structure, theory, philosophy, method, right? We can a- apply it into the goal of peace.

Lewis Howes 55:10 Mm.

Dr. Mariel Buqué 55:11 The more that we engage in the practice of meditation, the more of the neural networks inside of our brain and neur- nervous system that are actually gonna start forming around that calm and peace. And the more that our brains, which are neuroplastic, are gonna start forming actual brain matter that is organized around peace. So we're gonna get reinforcement. It's not gonna look the same. It's not gonna be that reward that's gonna come right away and that we're gonna feel like, oh my goodness-

Lewis Howes 55:38 Mm

Dr. Mariel Buqué 55:38 ... it's all lifted. But we are gonna feel better eventually if we continue that process.

Lewis Howes 55:44 That should be the game. Not like, how do I accomplish more and achieve more, make more, but how do I consistently be in a state of peace?

Dr. Mariel Buqué 55:52 Yeah.

Lewis Howes 55:52 How, you know, when something stressful happens in the world or, or with a person around me, how am I responding? Did I respond in a way that my highest self would be proud of, or did I respond in a way that my wounded self, you know, wants to justify? And I think it's finding those different types of reward systems, right?

Dr. Mariel Buqué 56:11 Mm-hmm.

Lewis Howes 56:12 Which, which in a big city like LA, just driving anywhere you can be, like, triggered just with someone-

Dr. Mariel Buqué 56:16 Right

Lewis Howes 56:16 ... honking at you. Why are they honking at me?

Dr. Mariel Buqué 56:18 Right.

Lewis Howes 56:18 You know? So it's how can you be... How can you reward yourself every day with like, "Man, did I respond in a way my highest self would be proud of?"

Dr. Mariel Buqué 56:26 Mm-hmm.

Lewis Howes 56:27 That served my nervous system and my body.

Dr. Mariel Buqué 56:29 Mm-hmm.

Lewis Howes 56:30 That my inner child would be grateful for.

Dr. Mariel Buqué 56:33 Yeah.

Lewis Howes 56:33 Right?

Dr. Mariel Buqué 56:33 Mm-hmm. Yeah. I always say, you know, every single day presents us with an opportunity to break a cycle. All you have to do is take it. Every single day, instead of rolling down your window and screaming out at the, the person in the other car [laughs]

Lewis Howes 56:48 Yep.

Dr. Mariel Buqué 56:48 There's a choice that can be made. Every day in your relationship you have a choice to continue that same cycle and pattern and, and yell back, right? Or integrate a different version-

Lewis Howes 57:00 Mm

Dr. Mariel Buqué 57:00 ... of how you can engage in the relationship. Every day there is an opportunity-

Lewis Howes 57:05 Yeah

Dr. Mariel Buqué 57:05 ... in, in all areas of life.

Lewis Howes 57:06 And it's a dance. How do you, you know, make sure you create boundaries so you're not getting walked on, but you're not reacting like a crazy person. All these different things. So it's-

Dr. Mariel Buqué 57:13 It's a dance

Lewis Howes 57:13 ... it's a dance.

Dr. Mariel Buqué 57:14 Yeah.

Lewis Howes 57:15 Um, I wanted to ask you this question about parents, 'cause I think a lot of this starts with parents, um, and making sure we don't pass these things down to our kids. What are... In your mind, what are three toxic behaviors that parents should never have around their kids?

Dr. Mariel Buqué 57:36 Three toxic behaviors would be, uh, talking to kids about their body size is, is something that can be very-

Lewis Howes 57:47 Mm

Dr. Mariel Buqué 57:47 ... triggering to, to children, and can actually promote, um, the ways in which children see themselves, and even promote certain eating disorders.

Lewis Howes 57:55 Mm.

Dr. Mariel Buqué 57:56 So that's something that is incredibly important for parents-

Lewis Howes 57:59 Mm

Dr. Mariel Buqué 57:59 ... to just bear in mind how you're talking to your children about. Even, like, comparing body size between children or, you know, just talking to them singularly about their own body.

Lewis Howes 58:10 Even if they think it's harmless, it could be harmful.

Dr. Mariel Buqué 58:12 It could be. It could be.

Lewis Howes 58:14 You know. So be mindful of that.

Dr. Mariel Buqué 58:15 Be mindful of that and, and how it's interpreted. And if, of course, always, if you feel like maybe, "Maybe I've erred. Maybe, you know, I said-

Lewis Howes 58:24 Mm

Dr. Mariel Buqué 58:24 ... something that could be interpreted in a different way," there's always repair.

Lewis Howes 58:28 Mm.

Dr. Mariel Buqué 58:29 And that's the thing that we, we sometimes lose sight of. Like, you can always go back and say, "Listen, I wanna say that differently. Um, let me try that again." Right? There's opportunity. The... You, you know, 'cause parents tend to think, "I messed them up. That's it. It's done." Right? Not really. Actually, they have an opportunity to not only feel affirmed by you, feel seen by you, feel like they're important because you came back, um, but also have modeling around how you can do repairs.

Lewis Howes 58:56 Mm. That's good.

Dr. Mariel Buqué 58:56 It's beautiful.

Lewis Howes 58:57 Yeah.

Dr. Mariel Buqué 58:57 There's so much that can be gained there. A second thing, um, is perhaps, mm, you know, parents, uh, having relational conflict.

Lewis Howes 59:09 Mm-hmm.

Dr. Mariel Buqué 59:11 That is violent around their children.

Lewis Howes 59:14 Like screaming to, to one another with parents.

Dr. Mariel Buqué 59:16 slamming doors.

Lewis Howes 59:17 Yes.

Dr. Mariel Buqué 59:17 Throwing things. You know, um, uh, s- saying nasty things to one another.

Lewis Howes 59:23 Mm.

Dr. Mariel Buqué 59:23 Right? Uh-

Lewis Howes 59:23 How harmful is that to kids when parents speak badly to one another, when they scream, when they give the silent treatment, when they slam a door and lock themselves in another room? How harmful can that be to the children's psyche and emotional wellbeing?

Dr. Mariel Buqué 59:38 Well, children have an underdeveloped nervous system that's taking in a lot of the sense of lack of safety in their environment at that point in time.

Lewis Howes 59:46 Mm.

Dr. Mariel Buqué 59:46 So in that moment, even if the parent can't see it, there's a lot happening internally in that little body that's already... Like, their, their heart rate is increasing. Like, their pupils are becoming dilated. They're, like, probably sweating. You know, like, there's a lot happening because they're, like, ready for battle, basically.

Lewis Howes 1:00:03 Wow.

Dr. Mariel Buqué 1:00:03 Right? And the battle is truly happening right in front of them. But from a more psychological perspective, this child is probably having fantasies about how they can save their family-

Lewis Howes 1:00:14 Wow

Dr. Mariel Buqué 1:00:14 ... from this tormenting situation that they're encountering, right? And, and very often it leaves a child in the position of having fantasies of saving a, a parent that they could never save and, and, and-

Lewis Howes 1:00:28 Wow

Dr. Mariel Buqué 1:00:29 ... oftentimes living with that guilt.

Lewis Howes 1:00:31 Yeah. What is... I mean, what does that do to a child when they grow up thinking they have to rescue their parents, parent their parents, and also get into a relationship with an adult, you know, an intimate relationship, and almost feel like they have to rescue or parent them?

Dr. Mariel Buqué 1:00:47 They become codependent.

Lewis Howes 1:00:48 Really?

Dr. Mariel Buqué 1:00:48 Mm-hmm. More often than not, people, the, the saving of another person or the being the emotional blanket of another person or the person to continuously soothe that person means that you are entangled in a codependent process with that person. And it could be driven by your own fantasies of saving, right? Like, "I can save this person from their own pain. I'm... I, I've..." You know. I wanted to do it with my parents, I couldn't. I can do it with this partner. And it, it gets into really tricky territory.

Lewis Howes 1:01:21 Is it possible to save someone in a relationship? Like, if you're in this codependent relationship, are you... Is there ever been a way that you could actually rescue the person and save them from themselves?

Dr. Mariel Buqué 1:01:32 You can, I believe, save a person from themselves the, in the best way by helping them to obtain the tools to save themselves.

Lewis Howes 1:01:43 Yeah, but what if they don't want them?

Dr. Mariel Buqué 1:01:46 Then they are really the only person that can save themselves.

Lewis Howes 1:01:49 I know. And then you end up resenting them or being frustrated or being guilty that you can't save someone or something like that, right?

Dr. Mariel Buqué 1:01:56 It, it will never end.

Lewis Howes 1:01:57 Oh, man.

Dr. Mariel Buqué 1:01:58 It's a vicious cycle.

Lewis Howes 1:01:58 It's exhausting, right?

Dr. Mariel Buqué 1:01:59 Mm-hmm.

Lewis Howes 1:02:00 And then you, you have, you get married, you have kids, and you just pass down the trauma. [laughs]

Dr. Mariel Buqué 1:02:04 Yeah.

Lewis Howes 1:02:04 Man.

Dr. Mariel Buqué 1:02:04 Kids absorb all of that. They see it modeled. They s- they hear the language that's being utilized. They absorb that language. They integrate it into their being. They, they develop that language when they start forming relationships. It just becomes a cycle when it's not addressed and when people are unwilling to actually do the work.

Lewis Howes 1:02:21 Gosh. So h- I mean, how do kids, if they're, like, teenagers, after they've experienced a lot of this for 15, 18 years, how can a child do their own healing? If they're 18, 22, 25, and they're still kind of young and developing and just realizing this, how can they do this if their parents aren't willing to heal and break the cycle with them?

Dr. Mariel Buqué 1:02:42 Yeah. That's a, that's a really hard thing for a child to do given that there is this power differential-

Lewis Howes 1:02:47 Yeah

Dr. Mariel Buqué 1:02:47 ... and, and a hierarchy and a dynamic in which they are, in essence, pretty much at the mercy of, of the adult-

Lewis Howes 1:02:53 Yes

Dr. Mariel Buqué 1:02:53 ... that could also cause them harm. And I have seen it time and again that many, many children or emerging adults have also, you know, found a way to transition, even if it's in a mental way, just transition from the hold that the people in their lives have on them-

Lewis Howes 1:03:11 Wow

Dr. Mariel Buqué 1:03:12 ... and, and liberate themselves until the moment where they can actually be free as an adult that is independent of their parents. It's why a lot of people sometimes, you know, I'm not a big proponent of just cut everybody off, but some people do go no contact because they feel like there is so much that is toxic within this environment that is immobile. It's not changing.

Lewis Howes 1:03:36 Mm-hmm.

Dr. Mariel Buqué 1:03:36 It's frozen in this home. But I don't wanna be a part of that. I don't-

Lewis Howes 1:03:41 Wow

Dr. Mariel Buqué 1:03:41 ... I don't want for my heart to, to feel heavy for the rest of my life whenever I enter this home.

Lewis Howes 1:03:48 Yeah.

Dr. Mariel Buqué 1:03:48 So I have to extract myself.

Lewis Howes 1:03:50 You know, the more I started to, like, recall my past and do the healing work, you know, I left home when I was 13. I begged my parents to send me away. And most kids get sent away if they're doing something bad, and I wouldn't say I was, like, a perfect kid, uh, but I wasn't, like, a horrible kid, but I was kind of in the between. And, um, I begged them for a whole summer to send me away. And I, and as I started to recall back, like, why did I wanna leave so badly, I remember, like, I don't know, six months before that them getting into a really big fight where I felt just like this home is not safe.

Dr. Mariel Buqué 1:04:20 Mm-hmm.

Lewis Howes 1:04:21 But there was, like, you know, almost every week some type of argument or loud screaming or slamming of doors or emotional distance between them from as far as I can remember. So I know they loved me and I loved them, but I didn't feel safe with them together.

Dr. Mariel Buqué 1:04:37 Yeah.

Lewis Howes 1:04:37 And I think it was just my body and my nervous system telling me, like, "Get out." And even though I l- you know, loved going home and visiting and all these different things, I just didn't wanna be there. And, um, and I feel like it was, like, a defense or protection mechanism to, like, beg them to send me away. Like, every day for a summer I said, "Please send me to this other school." It was about a seven-hour drive away. And I think it actually, like, saved me emotionally.

Dr. Mariel Buqué 1:05:03 Mm-hmm.

Lewis Howes 1:05:04 'Cause I didn't know how to handle it emotionally, how to help them when they were going through constant breakdowns.

Dr. Mariel Buqué 1:05:10 Yes. Yeah.

Lewis Howes 1:05:10 And they eventually got divorced. They should've been divorced many years before or started healing many years before, but that was, um, challenging. And not everyone has that ability to run away-

Dr. Mariel Buqué 1:05:22 Right

Lewis Howes 1:05:22 ... or get away.

Dr. Mariel Buqué 1:05:23 Right. Yeah.

Lewis Howes 1:05:23 I feel like I really got lucky. Um, but it was, uh, it didn't feel emotionally safe.

Dr. Mariel Buqué 1:05:30 Mm-hmm.

Lewis Howes 1:05:31 And so that's why I worry about kids if they're in environments where their parents are emotionally unwell with each other. It's just like how do we manage that? Like, as kids we don't have the tools. We don't have the training. We don't have the support, if that is our support.

Dr. Mariel Buqué 1:05:47 Yeah.

Lewis Howes 1:05:47 It's a scary thing.

Dr. Mariel Buqué 1:05:48 It is scary. It's scary because, you know, you almost kind of feel imprisoned into-

Lewis Howes 1:05:52 You do

Dr. Mariel Buqué 1:05:53 ... the spaces that you're in. And, and, you know, as we know, you know, that's, uh, that can breed a lot of, um, lack of health.

Lewis Howes 1:06:01 Yeah.

Dr. Mariel Buqué 1:06:01 Whether it's physical or mental, you know, it just, it, it, it really can blossom from there. What we start seeing kids do is actually exhibiting behavior that is actually, um, destructive in some ways.

Lewis Howes 1:06:13 Right.

Dr. Mariel Buqué 1:06:13 Either self-destructive or other destructive.

Lewis Howes 1:06:16 Uh-huh.

Dr. Mariel Buqué 1:06:16 And it's a representation of them just wanting to get out of the spaces that feel unwell or psychologically damaging.

Lewis Howes 1:06:25 Wow. It's-

Dr. Mariel Buqué 1:06:25 Yeah. And so, you know, I think that's a cue for any parent that's out there that perhaps might think, you know, the kids are, they're not absorbing this.

Lewis Howes 1:06:34 Mm-hmm.

Dr. Mariel Buqué 1:06:34 They are.

Lewis Howes 1:06:34 They are.

Dr. Mariel Buqué 1:06:35 They are.

Lewis Howes 1:06:36 Kids watch everything, right?

Dr. Mariel Buqué 1:06:37 Mm-hmm.

Lewis Howes 1:06:38 They're consuming everything.

Dr. Mariel Buqué 1:06:39 Yeah.

Lewis Howes 1:06:39 They hear everything.

Dr. Mariel Buqué 1:06:40 They're sponges.

Lewis Howes 1:06:40 And they're feeling it.

Dr. Mariel Buqué 1:06:41 Yeah.

Lewis Howes 1:06:41 I remember my parents, like, screaming at each other in the kitchen, and I'd be in the living room, and I'd just be, like, in terror.

Dr. Mariel Buqué 1:06:46 Mm-hmm.

Lewis Howes 1:06:46 You know? Like, trying to watch TV to, like, block it, but it's like, "What's happening? Am I safe?"

Dr. Mariel Buqué 1:06:52 Yeah.

Lewis Howes 1:06:53 Just psychologically, you just don't know.

Dr. Mariel Buqué 1:06:55 We see- we all want safety.

Lewis Howes 1:06:56 That's it.

Dr. Mariel Buqué 1:06:56 We all seek it. We all deserve it. And it is why I believe that, you know, anybody who is willing to do the work with their kids even, or anybody who is willing to even teach, you know, skills that are holistic in schools, like, is, is helping the next generation To have, you know, maybe even better shock absorbers. Maybe their home environment isn't changing as quickly as it needs to for their own wellbeing, but they can actually hold their emotions in a different way so as to not then develop trauma symptoms as a result.

Lewis Howes 1:07:31 Right. Right.

Lewis Howes 1:07:32 And if someone has been through, you know, a breakup in a relationship and they have not yet healed from that breakup or from their entire childhood, what will happen if they don't heal going into a, a new relationship intimately?

Dr. Mariel Buqué 1:07:50 Well, the biggest risk is that they'll repeat the very same patterns that they're used to. I mean, there's this thing called repetition compulsion, which I know-

Lewis Howes 1:07:57 Yes

Dr. Mariel Buqué 1:07:58 ... you're fairly familiar with, and it is when we, in essence, repeat the patterns that just feel familiar and that are already pre-programmed inside of our minds. We go into every single relationship, and the relationships start looking the same with the same patterns, the same beginning, end, and then we go into the next relationship with the same beginning [laughs] middle end. And so it just becomes this cyclical process where we're not actually, like, doing anything different. We're just, we just have different players in our lives, right? And so whenever we can actually identify, "Oh, look. That's when I start getting into those codependent qualities."

Lewis Howes 1:08:32 Mm-hmm.

Dr. Mariel Buqué 1:08:33 "That's the, that's the in. That's my thing," right? Like, you know, I start, let's say, you know-

Lewis Howes 1:08:38 Or I s- or I feel like I need this attention-

Dr. Mariel Buqué 1:08:40 Right

Lewis Howes 1:08:40 ... or whatever it might be. Yeah.

Dr. Mariel Buqué 1:08:41 Right. Like, what it y- whatever your brand of it might be, right?

Lewis Howes 1:08:44 [laughs] Right.

Dr. Mariel Buqué 1:08:45 You know? We all have a brand.

Lewis Howes 1:08:46 Yeah.

Dr. Mariel Buqué 1:08:46 Right? Like, and tha- and that's true. Um, then people, you know, can actually start noticing their own patterns and then start cutting those patterns.

Lewis Howes 1:08:55 Mm-hmm.

Dr. Mariel Buqué 1:08:56 We start cutting at the root when we're aware we cannot heal what we cannot see.

Lewis Howes 1:08:59 Yeah.

Dr. Mariel Buqué 1:09:00 If we have something that we can actually identify as not being aligned with how we wanna live a life, then we can identify it, call it out, and then when we see that it's about to creep up, say, "Not, not anymore."

Lewis Howes 1:09:14 Not this time. Yeah.

Dr. Mariel Buqué 1:09:15 "I'm not, not going in that direction."

Lewis Howes 1:09:17 As a, you know, as a trau- trauma expert psychologist, what is the biggest challenge you face today? What's the biggest pain or problem that you face personally from your, you know, years of work and experience and education that you've learned but also teach?

Dr. Mariel Buqué 1:09:37 I still struggle personally with, uh, personally with the experience of, uh, patience.

Lewis Howes 1:09:45 Having patience?

Dr. Mariel Buqué 1:09:46 Yeah.

Lewis Howes 1:09:46 [laughs] What? In-

Dr. Mariel Buqué 1:09:47 Some people may not-

Lewis Howes 1:09:48 With family, with intimacy, with friends, like, in life?

Dr. Mariel Buqué 1:09:51 More so with family.

Lewis Howes 1:09:53 Okay.

Dr. Mariel Buqué 1:09:53 Um,

Dr. Mariel Buqué 1:09:55 I am someone who's, like, typically really fast in my thinking, fast in my acting, and, you know, I'm just, like, very, uh... I, I tend to operate on autopilot a lot.

Lewis Howes 1:10:06 Mm-hmm.

Dr. Mariel Buqué 1:10:07 But it's actually something that I've been working on for a number of years and I'm still working on really intently. And even next year I wanna work on, um, in a way that, uh, I hope can really, really make a- an impact, um, because I wanna slow my life down.

Lewis Howes 1:10:23 Mm.

Dr. Mariel Buqué 1:10:23 Like, really slow it down and really, like, do things that can actually help me to build the patience rather than, you know, just, like, tone it down, which is what I've been doing. And I think that that's also gonna help me build greater compassion, be more self-loving and other-loving, and have an opportunity to also be more mindful and attuned in the spaces that I occupy, including my space with my family.

Lewis Howes 1:10:49 Mm-hmm.

Dr. Mariel Buqué 1:10:49 So all of that, I think, is gonna burgeon out of me growing that sense of patience around [laughs] my life, which is... It's been so hard. It's been so hard.

Lewis Howes 1:11:01 It has been.

Dr. Mariel Buqué 1:11:01 It has.

Lewis Howes 1:11:01 To be patient.

Dr. Mariel Buqué 1:11:02 To be, to just be patient. To be-

Lewis Howes 1:11:04 With family.

Dr. Mariel Buqué 1:11:05 With family, with my goals.

Lewis Howes 1:11:07 Ah.

Dr. Mariel Buqué 1:11:08 Yeah.

Lewis Howes 1:11:08 Yeah.

Dr. Mariel Buqué 1:11:08 With, um... If I, if I'm in an intimate relationship, with an intimate relationship and where things are going and where they're not going, like, patience is just not... And my family will tell you. They'll, they'll say wonderful things about me. They're so kind, and then they'll say, "Well, she's not very patient."

Lewis Howes 1:11:23 Whoa.

Dr. Mariel Buqué 1:11:23 They'll always say that. So they, they know me well, right?

Lewis Howes 1:11:26 [laughs]

Dr. Mariel Buqué 1:11:26 And I know myself. And, and you know, I... It's not a quality that I l- I love.

Lewis Howes 1:11:31 Mm.

Dr. Mariel Buqué 1:11:32 Um, and I know I can do better. Like, I know it. And so-

Lewis Howes 1:11:35 Yeah

Dr. Mariel Buqué 1:11:35 ... and I want to do better, which is the key, right? Like, it's the motivation.

Lewis Howes 1:11:39 Yeah. We're very similar. My... And Martha, my fiancee, is like, "Yeah, you don't really have that much patience." I'm like, "But I told you when we started dating that I don't."

Dr. Mariel Buqué 1:11:47 [laughs]

Lewis Howes 1:11:48 And so I've told you everything good, bad, in between about me.

Dr. Mariel Buqué 1:11:51 [laughs]

Lewis Howes 1:11:51 And I said, "Hey, uh, you would accept this." Yeah.

Dr. Mariel Buqué 1:11:53 [laughs] And it's all about an evolution, right?

Lewis Howes 1:11:57 Yeah, of course.

Dr. Mariel Buqué 1:11:57 Like, I'm much more patient than I was 10 years ago.

Lewis Howes 1:11:59 Yeah, of course.

Dr. Mariel Buqué 1:12:00 Uh, and I, I desire for myself, I really desire this, to be better.

Lewis Howes 1:12:04 That's good. Yeah. I'm sure, like, when I have kids it'll force me to be patient, or I'm just gonna feel more frustration-

Dr. Mariel Buqué 1:12:11 Right

Lewis Howes 1:12:11 ... and pain-

Dr. Mariel Buqué 1:12:11 Yeah

Lewis Howes 1:12:11 ... and, like, anger. So it's either, like, I suffer or I become patient.

Dr. Mariel Buqué 1:12:15 Yeah. Yeah.

Lewis Howes 1:12:15 [laughs] It's like you suffer or be patient.

Dr. Mariel Buqué 1:12:18 Yeah. Suffering's temporary, though.

Lewis Howes 1:12:19 Exactly.

Dr. Mariel Buqué 1:12:20 Yeah.

Lewis Howes 1:12:20 It is. I'm so grateful for you and this book, Break The Cycle: A Guide To Healing Intergenerational Trauma. I want everyone to get a copy of this, give it for a friend. Um, again, I just, I just truly believe after my last, I guess, 10 years of healing journey that this is the work we should be doing to better everything else in our life, to better our careers or our professions, our relationships, our health. Everything starts with doing the inner work and healing. And I really believe that on any new chapter of life, if you're entering a new career, a new relationship, a new year of life, you should be reflecting on where do I need to heal first-

Dr. Mariel Buqué 1:13:05 Mm-hmm

Lewis Howes 1:13:05 ... before I enter this new thing.

Dr. Mariel Buqué 1:13:07 Mm-hmm.

Lewis Howes 1:13:07 Or while I'm entering this new chapter, what can I start healing in the process of entering this? And the healing will cont- It's gonna be a journey, but it's gotta be- ... something you really are attuned to. And I think when you focus on that, like you said, beautiful things will emerge. There might be some pain and sadness and grief for a short period of time, but then on the other side, there is more abundance and peace. And so I'm really excited that this book is out, Break The Cycle. I want everyone to get a copy by Dr Mariel Buqué. Make sure you check this out. Where can we get this copy, and where's the best place to connect with you?

Dr. Mariel Buqué 1:13:44 Oh, thank you for saying that. And, um, the copy of the book can be purchased wherever books are sold. It's everywhere. And also, I have it linked on my website, which is drmarielbuque.com. Uh, where I'm at, um, is usually LinkedIn, sometimes, you know, uh, Ig-

Lewis Howes 1:14:01 Are you more on LinkedIn than Instagram?

Dr. Mariel Buqué 1:14:02 I'm more on LinkedIn lately.

Lewis Howes 1:14:03 Oh, wow, okay.

Dr. Mariel Buqué 1:14:04 Yeah, I love it there. It's, uh, I- I-

Lewis Howes 1:14:05 It's just your name on LinkedIn?

Dr. Mariel Buqué 1:14:07 It's just my name.

Lewis Howes 1:14:07 Okay

Dr. Mariel Buqué 1:14:07 And I tend to learn a lot there, and it's, it's very invigorating.

Lewis Howes 1:14:12 That's good.

Dr. Mariel Buqué 1:14:12 So I love it there. Yeah.

Lewis Howes 1:14:13 I'm gonna make sure to follow you over there.

Dr. Mariel Buqué 1:14:14 Yeah. [laughs]

Lewis Howes 1:14:14 Check out your content there.

Dr. Mariel Buqué 1:14:15 Thank you.

Lewis Howes 1:14:16 Uh, Break The Cycle. Uh, Mariel, I'm very grateful for you. I wanna acknowledge you for the constant work you're doing to put yourself out there. You know, you, you worked in, in a clinic for many years, a professor for many years, but now actually being a teacher and an educator to the masses through putting in the book, by teaching content online. I really acknowledge you for bringing this healing work to us because again, I think this is, this is the, what we should all be thinking about. You know, I, I like talking about health and relationships and money and business, but if you don't have peace in those areas, y- like, it's not gonna be fulfilling and rewarding.

Dr. Mariel Buqué 1:14:55 Mm-hmm.

Lewis Howes 1:14:55 So you gotta have healing peace first so that those things can be abundant. So I'm really grateful that you're teaching this and doing this work and doing the research to dive in on how we can heal these things.

Dr. Mariel Buqué 1:15:07 Thank you.

Lewis Howes 1:15:07 And I acknowledge you for the consistency that you have in, in serving us.

Dr. Mariel Buqué 1:15:11 [laughs] Thank you.

Lewis Howes 1:15:12 Um, you're welcome. Um, I asked you this question before, but I'm gonna ask you these two final questions. Uh, this is called the three truths. So imagine you, it's your last day on Earth, and you only get to leave three lessons behind to the world. You've gotta take all of your work with you, and everything you create from now until the day you die has to go with you somewhere else. What would those three lessons that you would leave behind be?

Dr. Mariel Buqué 1:15:38 It would be if we are not careful, history can repeat itself.

Lewis Howes 1:15:44 Yes.

Dr. Mariel Buqué 1:15:44 So let's be mindful of that and cut the cord, uh, where we can. That it is important for us to be in healthy relationships with other humans-

Lewis Howes 1:15:56 Oh

Dr. Mariel Buqué 1:15:56 ... because we are relational beings. So let's continue to foster the relationships that help us feel psychologically safe, or build ones if we don't have any. And that even if our life has at any point in time felt like it has been in shambles, there's always something that awaits on the other side, um, if we are willing to not give up and just hold on to hope and, and maybe, like, take a couple points of wisdom from the people that have done it before.

Lewis Howes 1:16:31 Wow, that's beautiful. I love that. Um, final question, what's your definition of greatness?

Dr. Mariel Buqué 1:16:36 My definition of greatness... I just love this question. [laughs] Um, my definition of greatness is, um, you know, being able to get back up. I think that's, that's greatness. It's in everyday acts of just getting back up, um, really tapping into our resilience and into our internal strength, seeing it, the fact that it's really there, and then using it to keep going.

1:17:05 Trauma just pervades the environment we all live in, right? I mean, we, we experience it vicariously. We look at the news, which is now really more, y- you know, it's more marketing, right, of like a, a click on this.

Lewis Howes 1:17:17 Trauma marketing. Yeah.

Dr. Mariel Buqué 1:17:18 Right.

Lewis Howes 1:17:18 Trauma marketing.

Dr. Mariel Buqué 1:17:18 Right. It's repetitive, incessant trauma marketing. Look at what could happen to you. Look at what could happen to your kids. Look at what could happen to anybody-