Modern WisdomHow To Work Out What You Want To Want From Life | Kyle Eschenroeder | Modern Wisdom Podcast 189
CHAPTERS
- 0:00 – 2:16
Why this conversation now: reassessing values and desires during COVID
Chris introduces Kyle and the core question from Kyle’s essay: “What do you want to want?” Kyle frames the pandemic as a forcing function that makes many people reevaluate default values and desires more consciously.
- 2:16 – 3:44
Why “what you want to want” matters: avoiding regret and the ‘spectacle’ life
Kyle argues that default desires often steer people toward lives they didn’t deliberately choose, setting them up for regret. He uses literary and philosophical references to show how seductive misaligned desire can be.
- 3:44 – 5:37
Memetic desire and chasing the wrong thing: Girard, Thiel, and Proust
Kyle explains memetic desire—wanting what others want—and how it can hijack life choices. He illustrates the trap with Proust’s painful realization of pursuing someone who “wasn’t even my type.”
- 5:37 – 11:54
Comfort traps, distrust, and the ‘path of least resistance’ that desires create
Kyle adds that social distrust and modern comfort can make people afraid to desire anything ambitious or meaningful. He introduces the idea that desires carve a ‘path of least resistance,’ making small shifts in desire compound into big life changes.
- 11:54 – 18:51
What should we want? Self-reliance, engagement, and ‘cheap dopamine’ as the modern devil
Chris and Kyle pivot from ‘why’ to ‘what’—what desires are worth cultivating—while emphasizing the difficulty and long time horizon of rewiring desire. Kyle offers heuristics: aim for nourishment in the long run and beware ‘cheap dopamine.’
- 18:51 – 21:18
Kyle’s four-part framework for desire redesign (and why inversion helps)
Kyle outlines the four major desire-shifts from the essay, built largely through inversion—starting from what feels unhelpful and flipping toward what’s more life-giving. Chris highlights how common these ‘default wants’ are.
- 21:18 – 30:29
Easy life vs. meaningful struggle: stress reappraisal, purpose, and better memories
Kyle makes the case that avoiding struggle can shorten life and reduce meaning, while embracing challenge changes both psychology and physiology. They connect struggle to purpose, post-traumatic growth, and why hard seasons become our best stories.
- 30:29 – 42:00
Wanting to be somebody vs. doing something: the addiction and fragility of fame
They examine attention as a valuable modern currency while warning that fame-for-fame creates dependence on public opinion. Kyle argues impact-first creates a sturdier foundation; Chris adds firsthand lessons from reality TV notoriety.
- 42:00 – 45:20
Social media incentives: playing the game without becoming the game
Chris and Kyle discuss how modern platforms reward shallow signals, tempting creators to optimize for visibility rather than substance. The key distinction is intentionality: using attention tactically to support the work vs. craving it for identity.
- 45:20 – 52:25
Extreme wealth vs. a frugal heart: money as abstract happiness and gasoline for the trip
Kyle argues that chasing extreme wealth often substitutes for concrete fulfillment and can distort morality. He reframes money as a means—like gas on a road trip—and advocates cultivating enjoyment of low-cost, high-meaning experiences.
- 52:25 – 57:39
Lockdown as a frugality amplifier: learning to see beauty in small things
Chris shares how reduced novelty during lockdown increased his appreciation for ordinary details (trees leafing, garden changes). Kyle echoes the ‘leaf’ attention practice and links sustained attention to discovering richness in the mundane.
- 57:39 – 1:02:30
Extraordinary vs. ordinary: ‘respect your experience’ and the trap of specialness
Kyle argues that craving extraordinariness can disrespect ordinary life and distort how we value ourselves and others. Letting go of specialness frees authenticity and creativity, and paradoxically increases the chance of doing unique work.
- 1:02:30 – 1:10:16
Not mediocrity: acceptance as the gateway to change (Rogers)
They address the common objection that embracing the ordinary equals settling. Kyle clarifies it’s about starting from respect and acceptance, then striving from a stable foundation; Chris connects it to achievement without self-worth inflation/deflation.
- 1:10:16 – 1:24:22
What Kyle would revise today: more emphasis on nourishment + uncovering ‘true’ desires via shadow work
Kyle reflects on changes since writing the essay, shifting tone from ‘struggle’ toward what’s nourishing and sustainable, especially with age. He introduces practical methods to discover hidden desires: hatred-as-mirror and tracking faint ‘whims’ (veilities).
- 1:24:22 – 1:34:56
Making yourself want better things: community design, journaling, and internal scorecards
Kyle closes with leverage points for sustaining change: choose communities that reinforce the desires you want, reflect regularly with a written record, and use internal metrics over external validation. Chris adds podcasts as ‘portable peer groups’ and a childhood-interest prompt for rediscovering authentic wants.
