Modern WisdomNavigating The Dating Market In 2020 | Amanda Kuda | Modern Wisdom Podcast 196
EVERY SPOKEN WORD
150 min read · 30,168 words- 0:00 – 6:02
Dating sober: why alcohol-free dates reveal real compatibility
- AKAmanda Kuda
I want everyone to do a really solid inventory of everyone they've ever dated. It's so important and it's a step that many people don't do. I really literally need you to go through every single person you've had a significant relationship with, and I want you to write down the qualities they had that are a yes for you and the qualities they had that are a no for you. You can get a picture of, what are the red flags, the nos that keep coming up? When you see that pattern, then you have to do the really hard work of looking at yourself and saying, "Okay, what was the crazy in me that attracted that crazy five times?"
- CWChris Williamson
(wind blowing) I'm joined by Amanda Kuda. Amanda, welcome to the show.
- AKAmanda Kuda
Hey there. How's it going?
- CWChris Williamson
Very good to have you here. What are we saying about the combination of blue blocking glasses and mustache at the moment?
- AKAmanda Kuda
Um, the, they're great. It's good. I like the look. Definitely it's good.
- CWChris Williamson
That's how you-
- AKAmanda Kuda
What kind of blue blockers are this? (laughs)
- CWChris Williamson
That's how I want to start a podcast. I want to start a podcast with bare-faced lies-
- AKAmanda Kuda
Yeah.
- CWChris Williamson
... that are also compliments-
- AKAmanda Kuda
Yeah.
- CWChris Williamson
... at the same time.
- AKAmanda Kuda
Mm-hmm. It's a compliment, but I'm like, "How would I respond if I saw you in the real world and didn't know you?"
- CWChris Williamson
(laughs)
- AKAmanda Kuda
You're just some guy out on the street and I'm passing you and you have the whole, this look going on.
- CWChris Williamson
I think I look great.
- AKAmanda Kuda
Yeah.
- CWChris Williamson
Someone, someone said that it was a little bit of a Freddie Mercury sort of thing going on with the mustache-
- AKAmanda Kuda
Yes.
- CWChris Williamson
... and the glasses.
- AKAmanda Kuda
Uh-huh.
- CWChris Williamson
Uh, I thought a bit cooler than that. I thought like Oasis maybe, but it doesn't-
- AKAmanda Kuda
Yeah.
- CWChris Williamson
... you know, it doesn't matter. Uh, they're Raw Optics. So Matt Maruca, the guy from Raw Optics-
- AKAmanda Kuda
Okay. Yeah.
- CWChris Williamson
... will be on soon. CEO and creator of the Light Diet. So-
- AKAmanda Kuda
Yeah.
- CWChris Williamson
... um, in podcast land-
- AKAmanda Kuda
I love him. He's nice.
- CWChris Williamson
Yeah, in podcast land, that may have come out before this or after this, so, you know, just, it's like pick and mix. Listeners don't know-
- 6:02 – 12:57
Alcohol, emotional regulation, and the hidden mindset behind drinking on dates
- AKAmanda Kuda
Yeah. No, absolutely. And I think, I've even dug a little deeper into that more recently and, and, uh, you know, I work with women who also are either wanting to quit drinking or they have already quit drinking, and so we have this conversation a lot. And one of the big things is, "Well, how, you know, how do I go into a date and be confident? What isn't that going to limit my, the dating pool?" And all of those things. And yes, but it's going to limit your dating pool to a smaller, more attractive group of people in the end. And what that, one of the things that I really dug into is, okay, what is this, like this subliminal message you're sending to your, your subconscious when you go out on a date and you have to drink? And okay, so if you're going, if you're going on a date, what are some reasons you might want to drink, Chris? What do you think-
- CWChris Williamson
So-
- AKAmanda Kuda
... is adding to the experience?
- CWChris Williamson
Being honest-
- AKAmanda Kuda
Or-
- CWChris Williamson
... um, it's been so long since I drank regularly and even longer-
- AKAmanda Kuda
Mm-hmm.
- CWChris Williamson
... since I dated like I can't remember... If you held a gun to my head right now and said, "When was the last time you went on a date?" I couldn't tell you. Um-
- AKAmanda Kuda
Yeah.
- CWChris Williamson
... but thinking right, right back, it would have been, uh, a combination of, "I don't know if this girl or date is going to be sufficiently interesting for me to keep energy high."
- AKAmanda Kuda
Mm-hmm. Right.
- CWChris Williamson
Um, "I don't know if I have sufficient confidence. I don't know if I can get-
- AKAmanda Kuda
Mm-hmm.
- CWChris Williamson
"... over my approach anxiety." Um, sometimes I might have used a date as pre-drinks to a night out when I might have been going out with my buddies as like a, a-
- AKAmanda Kuda
(laughs)
- CWChris Williamson
... pull the rip cord, like-
- AKAmanda Kuda
Your warm up.
- CWChris Williamson
... this is, this, this date's going badly, uh, right, um, "Sorry, I, see you later on. That was great." And then I'll sneak off to a club or whatever. Um-
- AKAmanda Kuda
Sure.
- CWChris Williamson
... so yeah, most of those, but I think a, a good amount of it would be improved confidence, um-
- AKAmanda Kuda
Mm-hmm.
- CWChris Williamson
... getting over approach anxiety, stuff like that.
- AKAmanda Kuda
Mm-hmm. For sure. And the most common answers are exactly that, you know, you want to, um, be more, be able to f- speak more freely, you wanna have more confidence, you wanna feel, um, looser, you wanna feel sexier, whatever those things are. You know, for men and women they're probably a little bit different. But if you look at the reverse, the antithesis of that, that is saying, "I don't feel my self-worth is good enough that I could possibly reach that feeling of feeling confident, sexy, engaging, um, interesting on my own. I do not feel confident enough in that, so therefore, I need something to help me get there." And if I look at it in that perspective, I don't want to date someone who has that, like, hidden mindset that they do not feel confident enough that they can have a conversation with me without, and be interesting and be interested without a substance. That just doesn't bode well for our relationship, in my mind.
- CWChris Williamson
I agree completely. Uh, this, this is a red pill that I'm actually having to do a little bit of work to get myself back to the realization.
- AKAmanda Kuda
Mm-hmm.
- CWChris Williamson
It's like, um, uh, learning that your sleep quality's better when your phone's outside of your room.
- AKAmanda Kuda
Mm-hmm.
- CWChris Williamson
And then remembering what it used to be like when you had your phone still in your bedroom, and you're like, "Oh my god-
- AKAmanda Kuda
Yeah.
- CWChris Williamson
... I actually used to do that." And it's like, I, I-
- 12:57 – 18:11
The ex-inventory exercise: mapping patterns, red flags, and your ‘common denominator’
- AKAmanda Kuda
Okay. So the first tip that I, I want to give everyone, especially if you find that you continued to date kind of the same type of person throughout your history, um, I want everyone to do a really solid inventory of everyone they've ever dated. And that sounds a little time-consuming, but it's so important and it's a step that many people don't do. So let me detail what that is, and maybe, maybe you've done it, or maybe some people listening have done it, but I guarantee that the bulk of people haven't. So when you do an inventory, I want you to go through, and just make like a simple sheet of paper, fold it in half and put on one side like yes and one side no. And I really literally need you to go through every single person you've had a significant relationship with and I want you to write down the qualities they had that are a yes for you and the qualities they had that are a no for you. And what you can do from this landscape is you can get a picture of number one, what are the red flags, the nos that keep coming up? And I would guarantee if you, you're thinking about it right now, I guarantee you could spot between like two or three people what some of the same kind of nos are or what some of the same, ooh, like those aren't so great qualities are. And when you see that pattern, then you have to do the really hard work of looking at yourself and saying, "Okay, what was, what was the crazy in me that attracted that crazy five times?" Like, "What is the world trying to tell me?"
- CWChris Williamson
(laughs)
- AKAmanda Kuda
"What do I need to look at that I keep getting that same scenario?" Because it's not the guy or the girl, it's me. I'm the common denominator, right?
- CWChris Williamson
So I'm trying to think about the yeses and the good things. What's interesting for me as I'm trying to do it in my head is many of the things which I have that are common attract- attractors amongst the girls that I've dated also come with some malignant side effects, which are probably-
- AKAmanda Kuda
Okay.
- CWChris Williamson
... linked to the nos as well.
- AKAmanda Kuda
Yeah. Yeah.
- CWChris Williamson
Um, so for instance, I tend to go for girls who are more type A quite driven. Great.
- AKAmanda Kuda
Mm-hmm.
- CWChris Williamson
Like, that's good. It means that we're growth-minded. It means that they're always-
- AKAmanda Kuda
Mm-hmm.
- CWChris Williamson
... going to be prepared to do things together. Uh-
- AKAmanda Kuda
Yeah.
- CWChris Williamson
... on the no side of that, it makes them incredibly disagreeable. And because I'm quite high in disagreeableness, that means that we end up clashing. So-
- AKAmanda Kuda
Okay.
- CWChris Williamson
... you need, it's, I think a lot of these are going to kind of come as pairs, right, with some of them. And it's going to be, okay, can I try and find someone who has part of the yes, but maybe doesn't have all of the no?
- AKAmanda Kuda
Sure, sure. I, no, that's a really important distinguishing factor. But you also, you can get someone who is high in argument, like arguability, and also just knows how to alchemize an argument to where it's you and them against the fight, against this other thing versus you against them. And that's a big difference between someone who maybe is just at the next level of, of the type, that type of person you've been dating, right?
- CWChris Williamson
Mm-hmm. Yeah.
- AKAmanda Kuda
And you can only see that and see the pattern once you really get clear on, okay, here are all the lovely things about Janet. Here are all the things about Janet that annoyed the shit out of me and that I don't really want to attract in another partner, and how can I work through those things that are annoying as shit about all of my partners and ask myself, "Why am I so argumentative? Is there something that is in me that has to be right or I'm trying to prove myself?" Or, um, you know, I have like this little shadow in my past that someone em- embarrassed me for being wrong and that I can work through that and be a better partner myself. And then I can stop attracting, you know, this type of specific person. And it's been really enlightening for me. Like, my, my specific pattern on the no, well, it's, you, you need to do this exercise in a couple of ways. It's yeses and nos, and then it's also additional qualities. So some people when they make a list of what their partner looks like, it's like, you know, tall, blond hair, blue eyes, whatever. They're going for physical things. And of course, I'm gonna encourage you to go more for, um, "I'm attracted to this person," right? Not like, "This person has to look like this for me to be attracted to them." Can't you just write down, "I'm attracted to this person," and, or, "They're physically attractive to me," and that be enough? And that can evolve in whatever way it is and the, and, and how that person comes to you. But what this does is it gives you this really clear list of who you're looking for and allows you to go back and look at are there any stuck points here? Because let's say you're talking about, I don't know who ... Sorry, sorry for all the Janets out there 'cause I'm just gonna like go down the rabbit hole and dog on you.
- CWChris Williamson
Oh, it's, we- we've already said this before that if your name is Janet, Karen, or Sharon, right now the internet is a terrible place to be.
- AKAmanda Kuda
They hate you. It sucks.
- CWChris Williamson
I, I, I watched, I watched a video the other day that was called the Karenpocalypse.
- AKAmanda Kuda
Mm-hmm.
- CWChris Williamson
Which was about all of these sort of mid-50s women, mostly American, who've been like re-released into the wild and they're just going crazy, screaming at people.
- AKAmanda Kuda
Too much.
- CWChris Williamson
And like, it's always in a supermarket car park against the security.
- AKAmanda Kuda
Mm-hmm. Yes.
- CWChris Williamson
Uh, and then Ben Shapiro last week tweeted, "Facts don't Karen about your feelings." (laughs) That guy kills me.
- AKAmanda Kuda
Oh my God. Oh, that's so good. Yeah, also-
- CWChris Williamson
So Janet.
- 18:11 – 24:09
Untangling unresolved attachments: romanticizing, resentment, and closure work
- AKAmanda Kuda
So it also allows you to go back and see if you have any unresolved feelings with any of these people. So maybe you look at Janet and you still feel a little lust or a l- a little bit of like, "Oh, what if that could work out again?" Or you look at Janet and you're like, "Janet's a cold hard bitch. Like, I can't ... I don't ever want to think about her again." And those are both kind of like personal red flags to me because it says that I'm still either romanticizing something about this person or I haven't let something go because anyone who I feel like I have to-... talk crap about basically in my life, there's some- there's another thing there that I need to look ab- look at. If I can't look at a person with pure appreciation and say, you know, "Steve is in- was in my life to teach me this lesson and yeah, he did also some crummy things, but I can look past those," then I, then I still have something to look at there. There's still something that's agitating me about that relationship. And just getting all of these things down on a list, reminiscing and deciding, okay, do I have, you know, am I romanticizing this person? Am I making them too perfect? Am I, um, am I making them, you know, kind of more of a double character in my life? And how can I come to a neutral? And how can I take all of the things I liked about that person and say, "Hey, perhaps all of these people were brought to me to show me that these characteristics exist in individual people, and that, could I just imagine for just one moment that they could all be found in one single individual and, and that that's a possibility for me?" And when I go out on a date that I say, "You know what, this is what I've said that I want. I'm not gonna stay on this track, I'm not gonna keep going out with this person unless they meet this list that I have." And, and really just pulling confidence that that could actually exist, because so often we're told, no it doesn't.
- CWChris Williamson
Mm. Yeah, I've got a-
- AKAmanda Kuda
Yeah.
- CWChris Williamson
... something that I really, I've been thinking about a lot recently that I wanna get onto to do with that. Before that, one of the things I've realized that I've done in the past is, um-
- AKAmanda Kuda
Mm-hmm.
- CWChris Williamson
... had a relationship or whatever with a girl for a while, and then it's ended either my side, her side, mutual, whatever it might be.
- AKAmanda Kuda
Mm-hmm.
- CWChris Williamson
Um, but if I've had unresolved attraction towards her, I've then tried the next few girls that I've ended up dating or the ones that I've been putting groundwork in with, I'm like, they look ... they kind of seem an awful lot, little bit like the one from before a little bit.
- AKAmanda Kuda
Uh-huh.
- CWChris Williamson
And then when you look at them, you're like, am I, am I, am I like just trying to recreate this girl?
- AKAmanda Kuda
Yeah.
- CWChris Williamson
Am I trying to find the thing I h- especially if it's unrequited, right? Especially if it's the sort of thing-
- AKAmanda Kuda
Mm-hmm.
- CWChris Williamson
... where it was finished by the other person. You're like, yeah, I'm gonna f- I'm gonna find her but better. It's like, mm-
- AKAmanda Kuda
Better.
- CWChris Williamson
Yeah. Um, so that's one thing. Second thing that I'm thinking about is when you talk about, uh, putting stuff down on paper, first off, it's the most effective way to actually become conscious of your thought processes, right?
- AKAmanda Kuda
Always.
- CWChris Williamson
It's the reason why morning pages is such a big thing from Julia Cameron.
- AKAmanda Kuda
Mm-hmm.
- CWChris Williamson
It's the reason why, uh, morning gratitude and, uh, an evening cool down routine are, are important as well. #sixminutediary, everyone knows what I'm on about. Um, but-
- AKAmanda Kuda
Mm-hmm.
- CWChris Williamson
... it brings up some pretty ugly stuff, because if you've never done it before, you realize just how big the size of the septic tank is that-
- AKAmanda Kuda
Yep.
- CWChris Williamson
... all of your feelings have been swimming around in, festering. There's this weird like oily film on the top of it and you gotta even get through-
- AKAmanda Kuda
Yeah.
- CWChris Williamson
... the oily film before you can even get to like-
- AKAmanda Kuda
Get rid of it.
- CWChris Williamson
And there's lumps in it, yeah, there's lumps at the bottom. Then at the bottom, there's like sludge and you kind of got to get a shovel out. And, uh, it's very uncomfortable is my point. Like self-introspective work is one of the most uncomfortable things in the world and the saddest part about it is that it never finishes.
- AKAmanda Kuda
Mm-mm.
- CWChris Williamson
Like you never stop doing self-inquiry.
- 24:09 – 31:24
Cord-cutting meditation and expanding beyond rigid ‘type’ fantasies
- AKAmanda Kuda
For sure, yeah. Okay. So many things to cover here. Let me wrap, let me wrap back around to the start of your comments. Oh, yeah, slam that down. Um, the, the first part is, you know, re-attracting the same type of person because you're trying to find a quality that you, that you lost, that you felt was like just unrequited in another person. And I have a couple of things there. So one of my mentors, um, Gabby Bernstein, she says, "Show up for what's up or it'll keep coming up." And it's just a reminder that you gotta clean up your side of the street to stop, you know, stop attracting those things that are undesirable or that are repetitive patterns, but also-... sometimes you just have to, I'm gonna get a little, like, woo-woo here. I don't, I, I'm a meditator, I know you are as well. But, like, a really specific thing you can do in that s- in that situation is do some sort of a cord-cutting meditation where you just sit and you, you envision the two of you going your separate ways peacefully. And you could, like, you know, partner that with some sort of affirmation, like, "I am willing to r- release this person and the hold that they have over me in my heart, and just help me to release this, like, burden or this, like, tie I have to this person." Because it's not productive for you or for them to, to have this, like, emotional bond left. And you don't have to call them and say, "Hey, I'm over you."
- CWChris Williamson
Mm-hmm.
- AKAmanda Kuda
You can e can do that work within yourself to release it, right? You don't have to have any contact with that person. And it feels so freeing when you're no longer chasing that quality or that person in someone else. Like, it's just this weight off of your, your shoulders. Um, so, so there's that. I would just definitely recommend for anyone who's going through that similar situation where you're kind of stuck or hung up on someone or some, a characteristic that someone had that you can't seem to replicate anywhere, to do some sort of, like, cord-cutting meditation. You can just Google it and find one that you'll be guided through and it'll be great. Um, okay, the next, the next thing. You also mentioned, you know, having high, like, just too high of standards, I guess. And I, I get it, like I do. Like, you start to make this list of, of who is your fantasy, like, prince or princess charming, you know, whatever, whatever that looks like in your world. And it starts to become a little unrealistic, and yes, you do, you may have to make some compromises of, you know, "Okay, so the person doesn't have to look exactly like this." Or maybe you start to get more broad, because here's the thing. Our little, like, creative minds are not as creative as the possibility in the world. So what I think right now that I want, I could be completely ... I, that could just be s- part of some, like, weird, elaborate Hallmark fantasy that I-
- CWChris Williamson
It's so much.
- AKAmanda Kuda
... that I've created, right? And there could be-
- CWChris Williamson
So, so much.
- AKAmanda Kuda
Yeah, there could be something way better out there, but I put myself in this little box of, "This is exactly the person who I wanna have." So you also have to, like, give the universe and, like, the powers that be some sort of creative, you know, uh, creative license here as well.
- CWChris Williamson
Yeah. Uh, the number of times that friends that I know have quite prescriptive ideas about the sort of person that they want, "I always want a girl who goes to the, who's, like, in fitness," or, "I want a, a guy who's real tall and dark and handsome," or whatever it is. And it's the, the female artist or the, the dude that's actually, like, a low-key guitar player that's only 5'10", like, that comes in, and they're the ones that absolutely annihilate them because they completely break down all of the preconceptions that they had. Um, you're ... I think almost one of the reasons that we like to keep going for people that are similar and almost it's a, a failing of the what's your type question mentality-
- AKAmanda Kuda
Yeah.
- CWChris Williamson
... is that you know what you're in for. You would much sooner be unhappy in a familiar way than risk being incredibly happy with something that's new, because the coping mechanisms that you need to deal with the breakup of the new thing require an awful lot more learning. You're like, "I, I, I don't know how I'll deal with the breakup with the artist girl. Like, I was great-"
- AKAmanda Kuda
Yes.
- CWChris Williamson
"... dealing with the breakup with the fitness girl, like, because I, I did it five times. Like, she-"
- AKAmanda Kuda
Yeah.
- CWChris Williamson
"... was easy, but this one's got charcoal on her hands and she wears a beret and we used to go in art galleries together." And you're like, "Oh. Okay." So I think, again, a lot of that, like, this is, again, what we were saying, like, self-inquiry. It's just this never fucking ending vortex (laughs) of, like, playing pass the parcel when you think, "Yeah, yeah, yeah, I got it. There's my biases gone." And you're like, "Nah. Mate, no, you're so wrong."
- AKAmanda Kuda
No, for sure. It's always, it's always another ... You're, I'm always learning something every person I date. I'm like, "Wow, I didn't know that I wanted that," or, "I didn't, I didn't know that that bothered me," and it's just this ever-evolution. But that's another thing. Like, always anytime you date someone, add back to that list of, of qualifications because you'll always get something new that you're like, "Whoa, I really dig that about, you know, this person and how they did that or how they got on in the world." And, like, keep adding onto that list, my friends, because it just, unless you have this, like, long list of things that you know you like and you know that you're not that into, you're gonna go into the next situation and then you'll start to like, "Oh, well, but, eh, eh, eh," or you'll forget, you know, there was this one little thing that was kind of a deal breaker and it's just so good to have that, to have that standing. But, um, in, in context of dating today, you know, I think that looking at that from the dating app perspective is really interesting because then you're just given, like, this visual portfolio of someone, and you start to really rely on, "What is my type? Who is that person?" And I think that it's really convoluted the dating game in a really shit way.
- CWChris Williamson
Do you use-
- AKAmanda Kuda
But-
- CWChris Williamson
Have you, have you been a, a online dater? I mean, I, it's so weird when people ask that question, but I felt compelled to ... I don't know why I even asked it. Like, who that's single hasn't used Tinder? Like-
- AKAmanda Kuda
For sure.
- CWChris Williamson
You've, you know, you've seen-
- AKAmanda Kuda
Also, is Tinder all you use there in the UK? Do you guys not have anything, like, higher caliber like Bumble or something?
- CWChris Williamson
Um-
- AKAmanda Kuda
Or do people just not use that?
- CWChris Williamson
So I was seeing a girl about two and a half years ago.
- AKAmanda Kuda
Mm-hmm.
- CWChris Williamson
And someone made a fake profile of me on Bumble.
- AKAmanda Kuda
Okay.
- CWChris Williamson
She was adamant, absolutely adamant that it was actually me. And my response-
- AKAmanda Kuda
Trying to play the system.
- CWChris Williamson
Well, m- yeah, and, and I was like, "Look, I'm, I'm telling you, I'm telling you that it's not." Um, sent her a, like, swipe down from the top of my applications. I was like, "Look, if I type in B-U-M, nothing comes up," which was fortunate 'cause it could've been like, "Amanda Great Bum 2019", or something like that.
- 31:24 – 36:44
Dating apps with intention: schedule it, don’t dopamine-scroll it
- AKAmanda Kuda
You know, I would say it's probably Bumble right now, just they're, they're the hot one. But you know, the, the brand of Tinder is definitely more hook-up culture, so that's not one I even play with. But I think that no matter where you're using dating apps, I, I used to ... I went into it with a really bad attitude for the longest time. And you know what? When you go into something with a bad attitude, damn straight you're gonna get bad results. So, I would love to share some tricks that I use to kind of like game the system-
- CWChris Williamson
Yes.
- AKAmanda Kuda
... and use all of these things more intentionally, because I guarantee if you are disciplined enough to put some of these things into practice that you will get much better results off of whatever app you're using, even if it's Tinder.
- CWChris Williamson
I want, I want Tinder discipline or Bumble discipline. That's what, that's what we're here for.
- AKAmanda Kuda
Okay, got it. So, all right. So in terms of ... I wanna talk about a few things. I wanna talk about your profile, I wanna talk about some rules for engaging with people, and I wanna talk about actually your rules, like some rules for using the app itself. So, the first thing is, you know, if you look at a Bumble, a Tinder, whatever, it's like a social media game, right? It's an endorphin hit the entire time. And if you let yourself treat it as that, it's ... That's all you're going to get in results. It's always going to be just another Instagram, another Facebook, another whatever, you know, game you're playing. And how many times have you sat down before you get to get on Bumble or you get to get on Tinder, how lo- how many times have you sat down and you just, like, close your eyes and meditated and said, "You know, let me think about the partner who I wanna, like, call in on this app or who I want to meet. Let me think about who that person is." Have you ever done that?
- CWChris Williamson
Have I ... No, I haven't. No. It usually ... It's, for me, it's when I'm bored, you know?
- AKAmanda Kuda
Yes. It's a time suck.
- CWChris Williamson
Or, or when I'm ... Yeah. Or when I'm somewhere new, because obviously-
- AKAmanda Kuda
Mm-hmm.
- CWChris Williamson
... I'm far, I'm far too much of a cheapskate to pay for Tinder Pro. Um, so-
- AKAmanda Kuda
For sure.
- CWChris Williamson
... like, I'll go somewhere, I'll go somewhere on holiday and use up 100 swipes a day of like trying to ... I'll be like, "Oh, this is interesting. Maybe she'll go ..." And to be fair, in my defense, it's worked out really phenomenally for meeting cool people.
- AKAmanda Kuda
Mm-hmm.
- CWChris Williamson
So I made a f- a fantastic friend that I'm still mates with two and a half years later from Iceland when I was in Iceland.
- AKAmanda Kuda
Mm-hmm.
- CWChris Williamson
Um, I managed to get backstage in front of a quarter of a million people on the Fourth of July in Nashville with Brett Eldredge this year-
- AKAmanda Kuda
Nice. Yeah.
- CWChris Williamson
... because, because of Tinder.
- AKAmanda Kuda
Okay.
- CWChris Williamson
So it's not like it's ... I g- I feel like ... And now that you've, now that you've given the hierarchy to it, I feel like I'm, I'm a, like, all seedy down here in the mud using Tinder.
- AKAmanda Kuda
Well, slot in a little bit.
- CWChris Williamson
Well, I s- uh, look, I didn't know. I th- uh, r- okay. Anyway. Um, so-
- AKAmanda Kuda
Well, here's the thing though. Like, if you're going on Tinder, if you're going on any of these to, like, make friends real quick or find a hook-up or whatever, you know, that's a different intentionality. But if you actually want to meet someone who's dateable, who you wanna spend some time with, like, wouldn't it then, you know, make more sense to sit down and say, "Okay, this is my 5 minutes, 10 minutes, 15 minutes a day I'm going to devote to looking for someone who I wanna date," rather than, "I'm watching, you know, whatever on Netflix, and let me pop this up so I can, like, scroll through or-"
- CWChris Williamson
Sweep, double screening through. Yeah. Well, I mean, in my defense-
- AKAmanda Kuda
Yeah.
- CWChris Williamson
... on, on those examples, in my defense, I was just looking for backstage tickets to Brett Eldredge.
- AKAmanda Kuda
Sure.
- CWChris Williamson
So that, that wor- that worked out fine. That was one-for-one successes.
- AKAmanda Kuda
Yes. Yep.
- CWChris Williamson
But yeah. And again, like, I think part of the, uh, transactional nature and the easy come easy go way that these apps are done, and also with kind of, like, young hook-up culture and stuff like that as well-
- 36:44 – 39:28
Build a high-performing profile: photo rules, no filters, and clarity signals
- AKAmanda Kuda
Okay. So, oh man. S- I, I just feel so ... I need to teach people how to set up a prof- proper profile. I don't ... I ... May- I'm just looking at the men's side, of course. I only get to see men's profiles. They suck.
- CWChris Williamson
Why?
- AKAmanda Kuda
They're really bad, guys.
- CWChris Williamson
Why? What, what are the key-
- AKAmanda Kuda
Work.
- CWChris Williamson
... uh, mistakes that guys make on Tinder.
- AKAmanda Kuda
All right. So guys and girls make these as well, but I'm, I'm, and I've looked at plenty of my girlfriends' profiles who are doing this as well, so girls, like, listen up. This is something you can improve on as well. But first of all, you get six pictures, right? You have six opportunities to show someone else what you look like, and I have some pretty strong rules for myself of what I will put there, and I think the other person should have that too. So let me tell you, I'm gonna sound a little crazy, but it works, let me tell you. Um, first of all, no more than one picture where you can't see your full face. So that means sunglasses, hat, or, um, or you're far away. So you could have, you can have a picture of you with your sunglasses, but that's it. You cannot have any other picture where you're hidden, because I know, I need to know if I wanna meet you in public. Then I can pick you out in a crowded room. I had, don't have, wanna be like, "Oh, is that Chris? I can't tell because he has sunglasses on or a hat."
- CWChris Williamson
Is that, is that the equivalent for, like, dog filter, Snapchat dog filter?
- AKAmanda Kuda
No filters.
- CWChris Williamson
No filters allowed.
- AKAmanda Kuda
No filters.
- CWChris Williamson
Right, okay. Yeah.
- AKAmanda Kuda
Don't ... Yes, you cannot use any filters. Like, Jesus, please. Girls, you are the worst at this. Like, no flower crown. Just be, like, a picture of yourself, for God's sakes. Is it that hard?
- CWChris Williamson
It's a, it's that, doing the flower crown or doing, like, the dog photo is making a profile for your girlfriends to see. It's like, no, unless you're s- unless you've selected, like, I am interested in women, like-
- AKAmanda Kuda
Yes.
- CWChris Williamson
... what, what are you ... Yeah. I get it.
- AKAmanda Kuda
I feel like, and I feel like for guys, like, stop rewarding that behavior. Make that a hard left. Like don't-
- CWChris Williamson
(laughs)
- AKAmanda Kuda
... even acknowledge. It's just so frustrating. Who cares? Like, get your Snapchat fil- filters out of here. Um, so basically, five of the six pictures need to be where I can see you full-body. That means I don't want a five pictures of you and all your bros, because then I'm trying to figure out who you are. How do I know which one of you are in there, right? I'm zooming in, I'm like, "Which one is he?" Uh, they all need to be within the last year. Um, you need to have at least one that's, like, full-body and not, like, you know, you don't have to be, like, showing off your body, but to where at least I can see the rest of you. And, and so, and then also only one action shot. So great, you're an adventurer, you go on tons of vacations, but you're, like, a little blip out here in the snow in a snowsuit? That, cool. Like, I'm so glad you're an expert skier, but I can't see who you are as a person. You could tell me, "I like to ski," and I could make that picture of any person in a snowsuit a million feet away in the snow, right? I don't need your visualization help.
- CWChris Williamson
I love it. I love it.
- AKAmanda Kuda
Yeah.
- CWChris Williamson
Okay, so that's, that's how we set up our profiles. We've got-
- AKAmanda Kuda
Yeah.
- 39:28 – 42:47
Effort and signaling: education, social proof, and ‘fake having friends’
- CWChris Williamson
We've got our little rules for, for photos. Um, you listened to the episode I did with Rob Henderson, didn't you? About the-
- AKAmanda Kuda
Yeah, yep.
- CWChris Williamson
... difference in conversions. So anyone who's listening who didn't listen to this, go back and check our episode with Rob Henderson on the, uh, evolution of the dating, modern dating market. Was, like, so good. Um, and in that, he said that essentially, girls swipe right about one in eight to one in ten times.
- AKAmanda Kuda
Mm-hmm.
- CWChris Williamson
Um, and sometimes can go through entire periods, like entire batches of work on Tinder or whatever, without even swiping right once. Whereas guys tend to swipe, uh, in the opposite direction. They tend to not swipe, like, one in eight to one in ten times.
- AKAmanda Kuda
Mm-hmm. Sure.
- CWChris Williamson
And the difference in conversion for guys is if you have a bachelor's degree in your bio, you'll tend to convert at around about 20% better, and if you-
- AKAmanda Kuda
Mm-hmm.
- CWChris Williamson
... have a master's degree in your bio, you'll then convert at another 20% better as well. Which-
- AKAmanda Kuda
Right.
- CWChris Williamson
And that's like, this isn't me, right, saying that girls only go for guys who are educated or are wealthy. This i- facts don't Karen about your feelings.
- AKAmanda Kuda
(laughs)
- CWChris Williamson
Okay? I'm saying it's ******* (laughs) .
- AKAmanda Kuda
For sure. Oh my God.
- CWChris Williamson
Facts do not Karen about your feelings.
- AKAmanda Kuda
But also, I would posit that women put more effort into their profiles, right? They are putting up-
- CWChris Williamson
So much more.
- AKAmanda Kuda
... better pictures. And so I, shit, I'd m- I'd much rather go through a woman's, like, profile than men's, because I get something, like, visual to see where I-
- CWChris Williamson
You have to put in work, yeah.
- AKAmanda Kuda
Yeah. And so put in the work. I guarantee that statistic would change if the men were putting in, more work into getting pictures. And I get it. Like, it's uncomfortable to take ph- take photos. You, maybe you don't have a ton of yourself, but you have a friggin' high-caliber camera in your phone. Everyone has it. Like, ain't nobody using a flip phone anymore that has a shit camera. Like, everyone has an HD camera in their hand. Set up a self-timer, figure it, figure it out. You can take a selfie, you can take a picture of yourself. Like, those pictures can be created if you do not have them. There's no excuse.
- CWChris Williamson
I think, so I'm gonna, I'm gonna put a, um, a couple of caveats in as well, from some stuff that-
- AKAmanda Kuda
Sure.
- CWChris Williamson
... I've picked up over the years.
- AKAmanda Kuda
Yeah.
- CWChris Williamson
Um, if you are a guy, it's a fairly good idea to have at least one photo where you're in a group that has other girls in, and make the girls at least moderately attractive.
- AKAmanda Kuda
Okay.
- CWChris Williamson
The reason being that you want to look like a well-rounded guy. One, you're signaling, "I am someone that other girls want to spend time with."
- AKAmanda Kuda
Mm-hmm.
- CWChris Williamson
"Not some total weird freak."
- AKAmanda Kuda
Mm-hmm.
- 42:47 – 45:19
Message like a real person: ask questions, avoid passive ‘hi’ and canned GIFs
- AKAmanda Kuda
Hm. You know, the other thing that's frustrating is just the communication factor and how unintentional some people are. And I'm sure you've had plenty of outreach on y- you know, either Tinder or Instagram where someone just says hi, right? Or they, or even worse, like a passive like where they just, like, thumbs up a photo and expect that to be enough to give a, be a conversation starter, and I know girls are just as bad as guys are.
- CWChris Williamson
Just a gif from girls is the one.... like, if I get-
- AKAmanda Kuda
Yeah.
- CWChris Williamson
... if I get another one, 'cause I don't watch Friends so I don't know who any of the characters are, but there's like some, some guy from Friends or some girl from Friends or something, this like famous Friends GIF. Like, "How are you doing?" or something that's written below it.
- AKAmanda Kuda
Oh, yeah. Yep. Uh-huh.
- CWChris Williamson
And, um, like, there is an entire internet of GIFs out there. The fact that I've received that GIF so many times that I can recall it means, like, that, that GIF-
- AKAmanda Kuda
No way.
- CWChris Williamson
... is now outlawed for the rest of time. Yeah.
- AKAmanda Kuda
Yep. Hear that one, ladies?
- CWChris Williamson
Yeah.
- AKAmanda Kuda
That's not the way to Chris's heart.
- CWChris Williamson
Yep.
- AKAmanda Kuda
Yeah, it's- it's- it's so passive. And if you wanted to meet someone organically at the grocery store, you would not exude that kind of behavior, right? You wouldn't just go up to them and like smile or randomly thumbs up. That- that would be super creepy. You would say, "Hello, how are you?" Or you'd say, "Hello. Have you tried this quinoa before?" You know, you'd ask them a question-
- CWChris Williamson
(laughs)
- AKAmanda Kuda
... that's like relevant to the situation. You wouldn't, you wouldn't just stare at them and like (laughs) like crinkly sugar in front of people.
- CWChris Williamson
Yeah. "Hello, hello. Do you know where, do you know where the feminine hygiene or the erectile dysfunction aisle is?"
- AKAmanda Kuda
(laughs) Uh, maybe not that one, but yes, something, something in that vein. Yes. Ask, could ask a question. So, same thing with a dating app, like ask a stinking question. Ask a question and not like, not something... You know, I have, I'm not gonna give away my best one because I sell that to other people, but there are some really good questions you can ask that are open-ended that get to like, "I care about you. I either read your profile, I'm ready to engage with you." But it's just s- so frustrating when you get a, "Hi. Hello." I'm not even gonna try. I'm gonna put the ball back in your court because I don't have enough, you know, confidence or time to actually start a conversation with you. So always start a conversation, ladies and gentlemen, both of you.
- CWChris Williamson
Yeah. I guess even if you, if you don't ask a question, the implication of you just alerting the other person to your existence is-
- AKAmanda Kuda
Mm-hmm.
- CWChris Williamson
... this is now a job for you to do.
- AKAmanda Kuda
Yeah. Yeah. For sure. And it's, it's just putting... It's making the other person work super hard. So like give us a- a- a... I'm gonna use the leg up. (laughs)
- CWChris Williamson
Throws a, throws a fucking bone here, yeah.
- AKAmanda Kuda
Throws a bone, yes. You got it. You got it.
- CWChris Williamson
Okay. What next?
- AKAmanda Kuda
Okay.
- CWChris Williamson
What else?
- 45:19 – 50:28
First three dates framework: walk dates, low-noise venues, and no ‘transaction’ vibes
- AKAmanda Kuda
So- so those are like the, the main rules for just like navigating the dating apps. The other things that I like to put into place... This sounds like I'm like a badass and have like all these rules, like, you're never gonna get (laughs) past this stone wall here-
- CWChris Williamson
(laughs)
- AKAmanda Kuda
... but that's not true. I'm just very, very intentional. And the other thing is when you actually are going out on dates, and I've seen so many people like really screw this up and do this a very casual way. So I'm gonna tell you, I have a three rule date, and that is nothing to do with sex. It is this, there are three dates, you have to go on three dates that are actually like meaningful dates where you get to know a person. And I actually like to look at them more as like a meetup because if I'm just meeting you for the first time, I don't know if I like wanna date you or go on a date with you if I met you on a dating app or even in the grocery store. So, can we not just look at it as we're gonna have a casual, you know, hangout where we decide can we be friends? And for me that looks like you have to be able to hear the person, so you have to be at like a coffee shop, on a patio, or on a walk. A walk date is my like top one favorite date all time. Like, can we just go on a walk, like move together and also have... That way, like silence isn't uncomfortable, it's just so much better. Like, walk dates are my jam. And so many people, especially like to go back to the alcohol conversation, it's let's meet for drinks. Okay, so let's go to a bar, a happy hour, whatever, and it just completely convolutes the situation. Not only the fact that you're drinking, but more of the factor that you're in a loud environment where you can't hear the other person, you are overstimulated by everything that's going on around you. And if I wanna know if I wanna have a long-term relationship with you, I actually wanna sit down and get to know you a little bit. And so my first three dates can never be bar, concert, movies, comedy show, anything that's like raucous around me. Like, I need to have like concentration to be able to have a conversation with a person.
- CWChris Williamson
I love it. I- I- I-
- AKAmanda Kuda
Not equal, not less.
- CWChris Williamson
... I can just see, I can just see the, uh, or hear the, uh, discomfort coming from a lot of people who think, "Well, yeah, like that's- that's all well and good, but like, you know, that's- that just sounds a bit sort of lame or boring." And it's like, okay, so what you're saying is the people you choose to date are so uninteresting that you can't bear to be around them without something else to entertain you. Well, no, no, no.
- AKAmanda Kuda
Yes.
- CWChris Williamson
It's just, no, that's- that's if you-
- AKAmanda Kuda
Yep, that's exactly what you're saying.
- CWChris Williamson
If you have, if you have a visceral response at the moment to the suggestions that Amanda's making that you shouldn't have this kind of hyper, uh, hyper-stimulated, hyper-normalized, uh, environment where there's loads of stuff going on, and if you've got, it's kind of just below your breastbone, kind of just above your stomach, if there's like a bit of a hot feeling there and you're finding yourself swallowing a lot, that is because it's triggering you. And that means that there's a little bit of something for you to work on there.
- AKAmanda Kuda
Mm-hmm. A- absolutely. Yeah. It's just, you know, you have to look at have... And of course I've had my days where, you know, those were the fun days and those, that was, that was my 20s. That's great. And if you're still in your 20s, like just don't... You know, write this down, listen to this in a couple years-
- CWChris Williamson
(laughs)
- AKAmanda Kuda
... and you're, you're gonna thank me so much more.
- CWChris Williamson
Yeah. Yeah.
- AKAmanda Kuda
Come back (laughs) to this episode, pin it, flag it, do whatever.
- CWChris Williamson
Yeah.
- AKAmanda Kuda
But, so if you're twen- if you're in your 20s, just go have fun, screw around, do whatever. Um, you deserve that time. That's like your rite of passage to do all of that. But if you're in a point where you actually value your own time and you wanna have a meaningful connection with another person, you, you can't do all of these other things that just signal transaction, right? And that's exactly what any of these dates signal, is okay, I don't, I don't find you interesting or I don't have enough faith in myself to be interesting that we could go do one of these other things where we're a little less like stimulated around us. And frankly, a walking date, there's plenty to stimulate. You're- you're going to pass other people. I mean, obviously you have to live in an environment where that's, it's warm enough and whatnot, but you're, that is the ultimate stimulation. You have things all around you to talk about, people you're passing that you can comment on. It just gets your brain moving. I think that...I wish I could, like, trademark the walking date and sell it to people.
- CWChris Williamson
The walking date, the walking date's a good idea. Yeah. I like as well-
- AKAmanda Kuda
Yeah.
- CWChris Williamson
... there's, (clears throat) in... I f- I sound like someone who's just lived and breathed Neil Strauss's The Game, but the only references I have from the guys' side, there isn't an equivalent for guys of a holistic approach for dating as there is for girls. There's, there's just pick-up artistry, ev- at least if you're my age. Now there is some slightly more good stuff, and I'm going to give you my number one book, guys, for, uh, uh, dating advice at the end of this podcast-
- AKAmanda Kuda
Mm-hmm.
- CWChris Williamson
... so stick around for that. Um, uh, but there is a common held, uh, piece of advice in dating that you shouldn't sit opposite each other if you can. You should try and sit at a right angle. So you should try and sit-
- AKAmanda Kuda
Mm-hmm.
- CWChris Williamson
... adjacent because-
- AKAmanda Kuda
Yeah.
- CWChris Williamson
... it is less confrontational, it means that you're both moving in the same direction together, but the walking-
- AKAmanda Kuda
Mm-hmm.
- CWChris Williamson
... date is actually even a step up from that, right? That you're kind-
- AKAmanda Kuda
Mm-hmm.
- CWChris Williamson
... of with the person, turning to them, and then kinda going back to the front, and then turning to them and going back to the front.
- 50:28 – 52:03
Post-date reflection and showing up with generosity (without over-investing)
- AKAmanda Kuda
Yeah, it's a him. Okay, so walking date, um, you know, I think... Oh, and then really, really being clear at the end and going back and, and reviewing kind of the date that you were on and what you liked about that person and what you didn't. But even before, like let me wrap back around to before the date. I know that, um, you kind of alluded to the fact that some of your listeners, and I agree, are probably thinking, "Oh, well, that's really..." You know, "What if, what if I'm not, you know, able to talk to the person? Or what if I'm not interesting or they're boring?" And all of these things, I, you have to hold in your heart that the person that you're meeting across the table, if you're going to take a chance to meet with them, that that could be your potential partner and you have to tr- treat everyone as such. Like, that is another thing that's really helped me level up, especially on dating apps where it's really easy to say, like, "Oh, the- they could've just been really good at marketing themselves, but now, like, ugh, I have to go on this date with a stranger." And it's, and when you go into a date with that mindset, you automatically project it to the person, you're automatically held back. If you can just go in there and imagine for a second, like, "Yes, this could be my person," but not in, like, the crazy way, where you're-
- CWChris Williamson
Yeah, yeah, not the buddy boy way.
- AKAmanda Kuda
... a little crazy. But, but that you're treating them as if they could be your person. You're not, um, holding a grudge on them that you had to meet them on a dating app or holding a grudge that, um, this is awkward or whatever it is, that you're, like, really giving it your all and you want them to feel loved and appreciated on, in the conversation.
- CWChris Williamson
So that's two, uh, infrastructure-based pieces of advice that kind of link in with what-
- AKAmanda Kuda
Mm-hmm.
- CWChris Williamson
... you just said there that I've got for guys and girls.
- AKAmanda Kuda
Mm-hmm.
- 52:03 – 55:19
Escaping the app ‘gutter’: move to WhatsApp quickly and use a repeatable handoff script
- CWChris Williamson
Which is, if you open the funnel in Instagram or on a dating app, your first goal should be to get them off of that and into WhatsApp as quickly as possible. Like if you-
- AKAmanda Kuda
Yes.
- CWChris Williamson
... get past the, obviously presuming that you think they're sufficiently attractive, they're sufficiently interesting, like-
- AKAmanda Kuda
Mm-hmm.
- CWChris Williamson
... get them off that, because the platform that you are on is coloring all of the interactions. For as long as you're the Tinder girl, it d-
- AKAmanda Kuda
Mm-hmm.
- CWChris Williamson
You can be, you can be, like, th- the fittest, most interesting, Elon Musk in- incarnate in female form level of intellect girl on the planet, but for as long as you are on Tinder, you're in the gutter.
- AKAmanda Kuda
Yep. Mm-hmm.
- CWChris Williamson
Uh, so get yourself out of that as quickly as possible. Um-
- AKAmanda Kuda
For sure.
- CWChris Williamson
... and with that, like, this sounds so bad, but you need, in my opinion, you need a, you need a scalable option to be able to get yourself off that sort of a platform. So-
- AKAmanda Kuda
Mm-hmm.
- CWChris Williamson
... come up with, come up with a script, come up with a funny little joke. I've got mine.
- AKAmanda Kuda
Mm-hmm.
- CWChris Williamson
Um, I can't say it because then when I s- when I say it to, well, like, you know what I mean?
- AKAmanda Kuda
Same. Yep.
- CWChris Williamson
Uh, t- uh, see, this is the, this is the thing. There's only, there's a level of transparency that you got in this podcast, ladies and gentlemen. I always said I was gonna be truthful with you, but I didn't always say that I was going to be completely transparent.
- AKAmanda Kuda
(laughs)
- CWChris Williamson
Um, uh, but you need to just have a thing, and it's, like, just use that. Like-
- AKAmanda Kuda
Mm-hmm.
- CWChris Williamson
... if- i- if something comes up naturally and you're like, "Oh, I really think that I should tell you about the best coffee shop in this. Let me pin you the location on WhatsApp," or whatever. Like, kind of, but it's just, it seems so contrived, right? Like, just come up with a script and use that, and like, when it's like, okay, it's time to pull the pin. If they say, "Oh, uh, uh, uh, I don't really f- have WhatsApp or do whatever," everyone's got it, shut up. Uh-
- AKAmanda Kuda
Yes.
- CWChris Williamson
... and then, so move them on. Okay, so we got-
- AKAmanda Kuda
Yeah.
- CWChris Williamson
... we got, uh, the walking date. Um.
- AKAmanda Kuda
Mm-hmm.
- CWChris Williamson
We've got the... What else do we have?
- AKAmanda Kuda
We've got be intentional-
- CWChris Williamson
Yes.
- AKAmanda Kuda
... um, with using an app when you're using it. It, have a good conversation starter, don't just be in a passive conversation. Um, we have set up your profile. You know, put some intention to it. Don't just, like, jack around and put the ne- the first five pictures on your phone or find, you know-
- 55:19 – 1:01:09
Confidence frame: ‘assume attraction,’ be the prize, and stop dating from emptiness
- CWChris Williamson
... so I got, I got a couple of things that I've come up with recently actually that have popped-
- AKAmanda Kuda
Yeah.
- CWChris Williamson
... into my head. So, um, one of them is another concept from pick-up artistry, which is called-
- AKAmanda Kuda
Mm-hmm.
- CWChris Williamson
... assume attraction.
- AKAmanda Kuda
Mm-hmm.
- CWChris Williamson
And assume attraction is exactly as it says on the tin, that you are the prize, so that's the-
- AKAmanda Kuda
Mm-hmm.
- CWChris Williamson
... subheading. Assume attraction is the concept and you are the prize-
- AKAmanda Kuda
Mm-hmm.
- CWChris Williamson
... is the subheading. What it means is that you need to go into a, a situation with, it doesn't matter how hot the other person is or how interesting or how intimidating the other person is. You know-
- AKAmanda Kuda
Mm-hmm.
- CWChris Williamson
... all of your uniqueness, uh, your quirks, all of the different life experiences that you have, that makes you incredibly unique, and this person is just Jonathan or Leanne or whatever it might be. Like, they're just a person, you are you-
- AKAmanda Kuda
Mm-hmm.
- CWChris Williamson
... you have all of these real different colorful interesting things. Even if you think that you're boring as hell, you're not because you've got 20, 30, 40, however many years of experiences behind you.
- AKAmanda Kuda
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.
- CWChris Williamson
You are the prize, and if you go into the situation with that in your mind, it will-
- AKAmanda Kuda
Yes.
- CWChris Williamson
... come across in the way that you project yourself. It will also make you a lot less, uh, worried about failure or about being rejected. So for instance, my life comes first-
- AKAmanda Kuda
Yeah.
- CWChris Williamson
... and then you will attach onto the side of that. You are the prize, and it's the equivalent... I got a friend, Alex O'Connor, been on this podcast, he is a big atheist podcaster, and he sat down with Richard Dawkins, the guy that created New Atheism, and I was like, "Dude, when you-" He's only 20 years old, this kid. He's a f-
- AKAmanda Kuda
Right.
- CWChris Williamson
... like, freak savage, crazy clever at Oxford Uni doing philosophy. And I was like, "Were you not, were you not worried? Were you not, like, nervous or whatever?" And he's like, "No, no, I wasn't nervous for Richard. Like, he's fortunate to get to sit down with me."
- AKAmanda Kuda
Yeah.
- CWChris Williamson
"Like, my podcast is the thing that, that he's here to be on. I'm not here to be on his show, he's here to be on my show." And as soon as he-
- AKAmanda Kuda
Yeah. Ha ha.
- CWChris Williamson
... he taught me that, and I was like, "Holy shit." And now every guy... Like Ben Greenfield came on here and I was like, "Ah, it's fortunate for Ben to be on my show." Ryan Holiday's just confirmed to be on this podcast, I'm like, "Ah, that's gonna be-"
- AKAmanda Kuda
Yup. Ha ha.
- CWChris Williamson
"... fun for Ryan to be on this show." You know?
- AKAmanda Kuda
Yeah.
- 1:01:09 – 1:09:35
Common dating traps, book recommendations, and the ‘fear of state change’ red pill
- AKAmanda Kuda
(laughs)
- CWChris Williamson
... I give the floor to you. So what... First up, what are the main errors you see girls making when they try and date?
- AKAmanda Kuda
I think it is being either too agreeable, like, "I just have to give everything to this person, I'll do whatever this person wants, I'm going to completely change who I am or act a different way," and just not standing in your confidence and your worth, and, and feeling like you have to change or show up in a certain way to be what that person wants or desires or needs. Um, I, you know, that, w-... it's just, it's just part of the way that we ... women are brought up. And but you can reprogram it. If you notice it, you can reprogram it. Um, and, oh, geez, what are some other ones? I think leaning too, not, leaning too far towards your masculine or your feminine side, right? Um, I think that that can be, in relationships for women, that can be something that's a little bit, um, detrimental because either you're trying to, like, stand your ground and say, "No, I'm this person. You have to s- you have to do whatever I want," and then you-
- CWChris Williamson
Mm-hmm.
- AKAmanda Kuda
... you're just a bitch.
- CWChris Williamson
Mm-hmm.
- AKAmanda Kuda
Or you are the other way and you're too agreeable to someone or you're always like ... uh, that's more of on the, in the psychology side, it's more of you're the, you're the, um ... oh, geez, I'm losing my words now. Um, you're the anxious attached person, right? You're like, you'll do whatever that other person-
- CWChris Williamson
Yeah.
- AKAmanda Kuda
... wants because you need the love from them so bad.
- CWChris Williamson
Neither of those polarities are actually that enjoyable to be around as a guy.
- AKAmanda Kuda
Oh, no.
- CWChris Williamson
I can't, I can't speak, I can't speak about what guys are like in that relation for girls, but as a guy, um, it feels like whoever it is, is playing a role. Now, that could be your true personality. You could be the 99th out of 100 agreeable person, or you could be the 99 out of 100 disagreeable person. That could be you.
- AKAmanda Kuda
Yeah.
- CWChris Williamson
But the fact that there's so little nuance-
- AKAmanda Kuda
Mm-hmm.
- CWChris Williamson
... to the way that you operate, the fact that, like, everything that I say is rebutted with, "Well, I don't agree with that. I don't think that that's right." Uh, or like a scathing comment or, you know, like, it ... whatever it is, if it's just ... If I can ask you a question, this is the-
- AKAmanda Kuda
Mm-hmm.
- CWChris Williamson
This is the fucking heuristic. I've worked it out. Um, this is the heuristic to use. If I can ask you a question and I can predict your answer before you answer it-
- AKAmanda Kuda
Hmm.
- CWChris Williamson
... that's it.
- AKAmanda Kuda
Yeah.
- CWChris Williamson
And think about, think about some of the people that you've spoken to recently if you're single. Uh, obviously, if you're not single, like, get off this, get off this podcast. Like, your partner will find out.
- AKAmanda Kuda
(laughs)
- CWChris Williamson
Um, but, uh, yeah, think about the, the last few people you've been speaking to. Like, can you predict their answers? Can you ask them a question-
- AKAmanda Kuda
Mm-hmm.
- CWChris Williamson
... or s- like, say something, make a statement to them, and can you kind of ballpark guess where their answer's going to be? And if they can't, if you can't, like, what are you doing? Like, that's the same-
- AKAmanda Kuda
Yeah.
- CWChris Williamson
... that is the same as dating a ventriloquist's dummy.
- AKAmanda Kuda
Mm-hmm. Yeah. Absolutely. For sure. Man, and, and it just shows, it just goes to show that that's that person saying they're mirroring what they think is going to be satisfying for you, right? And sorry, you've heard it before. Like, guess what? It, we, we've both been (laughs) in that, in that situation.
- CWChris Williamson
(laughs)
Episode duration: 1:16:23
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Transcript of episode 1JzMMHnXhZc
