Navigating The Dating Market In 2020 | Amanda Kuda | Modern Wisdom Podcast 196

1. 0:00 – 15:00

   I want everyone to…

   1. AKAmanda Kuda0:00

      I want everyone to do a really solid inventory of everyone they've ever dated. It's so important and it's a step that many people don't do. I really literally need you to go through every single person you've had a significant relationship with, and I want you to write down the qualities they had that are a yes for you and the qualities they had that are a no for you. You can get a picture of, what are the red flags, the nos that keep coming up? When you see that pattern, then you have to do the really hard work of looking at yourself and saying, "Okay, what was the crazy in me that attracted that crazy five times?"

   2. CWChris Williamson0:33

      (wind blowing) I'm joined by Amanda Kuda. Amanda, welcome to the show.

   3. AKAmanda Kuda0:38

      Hey there. How's it going?

   4. CWChris Williamson0:39

      Very good to have you here. What are we saying about the combination of blue blocking glasses and mustache at the moment?

   5. AKAmanda Kuda0:46

      Um, the, they're great. It's good. I like the look. Definitely it's good.

   6. CWChris Williamson0:51

      That's how you-

   7. AKAmanda Kuda0:52

      What kind of blue blockers are this? (laughs)

   8. CWChris Williamson0:53

      That's how I want to start a podcast. I want to start a podcast with bare-faced lies-

   9. AKAmanda Kuda0:58

      Yeah.

   10. CWChris Williamson0:58

       ... that are also compliments-

   11. AKAmanda Kuda0:59

       Yeah.

   12. CWChris Williamson1:00

       ... at the same time.

   13. AKAmanda Kuda1:01

       Mm-hmm. It's a compliment, but I'm like, "How would I respond if I saw you in the real world and didn't know you?"

   14. CWChris Williamson1:07

       (laughs)

   15. AKAmanda Kuda1:07

       You're just some guy out on the street and I'm passing you and you have the whole, this look going on.

   16. CWChris Williamson1:13

       I think I look great.

   17. AKAmanda Kuda1:15

       Yeah.

   18. CWChris Williamson1:15

       Someone, someone said that it was a little bit of a Freddie Mercury sort of thing going on with the mustache-

   19. AKAmanda Kuda1:20

       Yes.

   20. CWChris Williamson1:20

       ... and the glasses.

   21. AKAmanda Kuda1:21

       Uh-huh.

   22. CWChris Williamson1:21

       Uh, I thought a bit cooler than that. I thought like Oasis maybe, but it doesn't-

   23. AKAmanda Kuda1:25

       Yeah.

   24. CWChris Williamson1:25

       ... you know, it doesn't matter. Uh, they're Raw Optics. So Matt Maruca, the guy from Raw Optics-

   25. AKAmanda Kuda1:29

       Okay. Yeah.

   26. CWChris Williamson1:29

       ... will be on soon. CEO and creator of the Light Diet. So-

   27. AKAmanda Kuda1:33

       Yeah.

   28. CWChris Williamson1:34

       ... um, in podcast land-

   29. AKAmanda Kuda1:35

       I love him. He's nice.

   30. CWChris Williamson1:36

       Yeah, in podcast land, that may have come out before this or after this, so, you know, just, it's like pick and mix. Listeners don't know-
2. 15:00 – 30:00

   Mm-hmm. …

   1. CWChris Williamson15:00

      quite driven. Great.

   2. AKAmanda Kuda15:02

      Mm-hmm.

   3. CWChris Williamson15:02

      Like, that's good. It means that we're growth-minded. It means that they're always-

   4. AKAmanda Kuda15:04

      Mm-hmm.

   5. CWChris Williamson15:04

      ... going to be prepared to do things together. Uh-

   6. AKAmanda Kuda15:07

      Yeah.

   7. CWChris Williamson15:07

      ... on the no side of that, it makes them incredibly disagreeable. And because I'm quite high in disagreeableness, that means that we end up clashing. So-

   8. AKAmanda Kuda15:15

      Okay.

   9. CWChris Williamson15:16

      ... you need, it's, I think a lot of these are going to kind of come as pairs, right, with some of them. And it's going to be, okay, can I try and find someone who has part of the yes, but maybe doesn't have all of the no?

   10. AKAmanda Kuda15:27

       Sure, sure. I, no, that's a really important distinguishing factor. But you also, you can get someone who is high in argument, like arguability, and also just knows how to alchemize an argument to where it's you and them against the fight, against this other thing versus you against them. And that's a big difference between someone who maybe is just at the next level of, of the type, that type of person you've been dating, right?

   11. CWChris Williamson15:53

       Mm-hmm. Yeah.

   12. AKAmanda Kuda15:53

       And you can only see that and see the pattern once you really get clear on, okay, here are all the lovely things about Janet. Here are all the things about Janet that annoyed the shit out of me and that I don't really want to attract in another partner, and how can I work through those things that are annoying as shit about all of my partners and ask myself, "Why am I so argumentative? Is there something that is in me that has to be right or I'm trying to prove myself?" Or, um, you know, I have like this little shadow in my past that someone em- embarrassed me for being wrong and that I can work through that and be a better partner myself. And then I can stop attracting, you know, this type of specific person. And it's been really enlightening for me. Like, my, my specific pattern on the no, well, it's, you, you need to do this exercise in a couple of ways. It's yeses and nos, and then it's also additional qualities. So some people when they make a list of what their partner looks like, it's like, you know, tall, blond hair, blue eyes, whatever. They're going for physical things. And of course, I'm gonna encourage you to go more for, um, "I'm attracted to this person," right? Not like, "This person has to look like this for me to be attracted to them." Can't you just write down, "I'm attracted to this person," and, or, "They're physically attractive to me," and that be enough? And that can evolve in whatever way it is and the, and, and how that person comes to you. But what this does is it gives you this really clear list of who you're looking for and allows you to go back and look at are there any stuck points here? Because let's say you're talking about, I don't know who ... Sorry, sorry for all the Janets out there 'cause I'm just gonna like go down the rabbit hole and dog on you.

   13. CWChris Williamson17:25

       Oh, it's, we- we've already said this before that if your name is Janet, Karen, or Sharon, right now the internet is a terrible place to be.

   14. AKAmanda Kuda17:32

       They hate you. It sucks.

   15. CWChris Williamson17:33

       I, I, I watched, I watched a video the other day that was called the Karenpocalypse.

   16. AKAmanda Kuda17:38

       Mm-hmm.

   17. CWChris Williamson17:39

       Which was about all of these sort of mid-50s women, mostly American, who've been like re-released into the wild and they're just going crazy, screaming at people.

   18. AKAmanda Kuda17:50

       Too much.

   19. CWChris Williamson17:51

       And like, it's always in a supermarket car park against the security.

   20. AKAmanda Kuda17:55

       Mm-hmm. Yes.

   21. CWChris Williamson17:55

       Uh, and then Ben Shapiro last week tweeted, "Facts don't Karen about your feelings." (laughs) That guy kills me.

   22. AKAmanda Kuda18:05

       Oh my God. Oh, that's so good. Yeah, also-

   23. CWChris Williamson18:09

       So Janet.

   24. AKAmanda Kuda18:09

       ... Karen, Janet.

   25. CWChris Williamson18:10

       Yeah.

   26. AKAmanda Kuda18:11

       So it also allows you to go back and see if you have any unresolved feelings with any of these people. So maybe you look at Janet and you still feel a little lust or a l- a little bit of like, "Oh, what if that could work out again?" Or you look at Janet and you're like, "Janet's a cold hard bitch. Like, I can't ... I don't ever want to think about her again." And those are both kind of like personal red flags to me because it says that I'm still either romanticizing something about this person or I haven't let something go because anyone who I feel like I have to-... talk crap about basically in my life, there's some- there's another thing there that I need to look ab- look at. If I can't look at a person with pure appreciation and say, you know, "Steve is in- was in my life to teach me this lesson and yeah, he did also some crummy things, but I can look past those," then I, then I still have something to look at there. There's still something that's agitating me about that relationship. And just getting all of these things down on a list, reminiscing and deciding, okay, do I have, you know, am I romanticizing this person? Am I making them too perfect? Am I, um, am I making them, you know, kind of more of a double character in my life? And how can I come to a neutral? And how can I take all of the things I liked about that person and say, "Hey, perhaps all of these people were brought to me to show me that these characteristics exist in individual people, and that, could I just imagine for just one moment that they could all be found in one single individual and, and that that's a possibility for me?" And when I go out on a date that I say, "You know what, this is what I've said that I want. I'm not gonna stay on this track, I'm not gonna keep going out with this person unless they meet this list that I have." And, and really just pulling confidence that that could actually exist, because so often we're told, no it doesn't.

   27. CWChris Williamson19:51

       Mm. Yeah, I've got a-

   28. AKAmanda Kuda19:52

       Yeah.

   29. CWChris Williamson19:52

       ... something that I really, I've been thinking about a lot recently that I wanna get onto to do with that. Before that, one of the things I've realized that I've done in the past is, um-

   30. AKAmanda Kuda20:01

       Mm-hmm.
3. 30:00 – 45:00

   For sure. …

   1. CWChris Williamson30:00

      used Tinder? Like-

   2. AKAmanda Kuda30:01

      For sure.

   3. CWChris Williamson30:02

      You've, you know, you've seen-

   4. AKAmanda Kuda30:03

      Also, is Tinder all you use there in the UK? Do you guys not have anything, like, higher caliber like Bumble or something?

   5. CWChris Williamson30:08

      Um-

   6. AKAmanda Kuda30:08

      Or do people just not use that?

   7. CWChris Williamson30:10

      So I was seeing a girl about two and a half years ago.

   8. AKAmanda Kuda30:13

      Mm-hmm.

   9. CWChris Williamson30:13

      And someone made a fake profile of me on Bumble.

   10. AKAmanda Kuda30:17

       Okay.

   11. CWChris Williamson30:18

       She was adamant, absolutely adamant that it was actually me. And my response-

   12. AKAmanda Kuda30:24

       Trying to play the system.

   13. CWChris Williamson30:25

       Well, m- yeah, and, and I was like, "Look, I'm, I'm telling you, I'm telling you that it's not." Um, sent her a, like, swipe down from the top of my applications. I was like, "Look, if I type in B-U-M, nothing comes up," which was fortunate 'cause it could've been like, "Amanda Great Bum 2019", or something like that.

   14. AKAmanda Kuda30:42

       (laughs)

   15. CWChris Williamson30:42

       Um, I was like, "Look, I don't, I, I don't have the app," and she was still adamant. And I was like, "Right, okay. You've decided to push the button far too far." So I, I was just like, "Look, you're gonna make yourself look really stupid here," and then just became scathing. That one situation, it was maybe a-... like, a five-minute spearhead, and then the subsq- subsequent, like, two or three days of it, of it burbling down and her realizing that she was wrong. That was attraction over for me. I was like-

   16. AKAmanda Kuda31:08

       Yeah.

   17. CWChris Williamson31:08

       ... "There you go."

   18. AKAmanda Kuda31:09

       "Done."

   19. CWChris Williamson31:09

       "Five minutes. You killed it."

   20. AKAmanda Kuda31:10

       Yep.

   21. CWChris Williamson31:10

       "I'm off. See you later on."

   22. AKAmanda Kuda31:12

       Yeah. "Thanks for saving me some time, sister." No, man.

   23. CWChris Williamson31:14

       Um, but yeah, so like Hinge-

   24. AKAmanda Kuda31:16

       That's good intel.

   25. CWChris Williamson31:16

       ... Hinge and Bumble and, and stuff like that.

   26. AKAmanda Kuda31:17

       Mm-hmm.

   27. CWChris Williamson31:17

       They are, they are on over here. What's the, what's the premier ... What's th- what's, like, the gold standard dating app over in America?

   28. AKAmanda Kuda31:24

       You know, I would say it's probably Bumble right now, just they're, they're the hot one. But you know, the, the brand of Tinder is definitely more hook-up culture, so that's not one I even play with. But I think that no matter where you're using dating apps, I, I used to ... I went into it with a really bad attitude for the longest time. And you know what? When you go into something with a bad attitude, damn straight you're gonna get bad results. So, I would love to share some tricks that I use to kind of like game the system-

   29. CWChris Williamson31:49

       Yes.

   30. AKAmanda Kuda31:49

       ... and use all of these things more intentionally, because I guarantee if you are disciplined enough to put some of these things into practice that you will get much better results off of whatever app you're using, even if it's Tinder.
4. 45:00 – 1:00:00

   Mm-hmm. …

   1. CWChris Williamson45:00

      to your existence is-

   2. AKAmanda Kuda45:01

      Mm-hmm.

   3. CWChris Williamson45:02

      ... this is now a job for you to do.

   4. AKAmanda Kuda45:04

      Yeah. Yeah. For sure. And it's, it's just putting... It's making the other person work super hard. So like give us a- a- a... I'm gonna use the leg up. (laughs)

   5. CWChris Williamson45:13

      Throws a, throws a fucking bone here, yeah.

   6. AKAmanda Kuda45:15

      Throws a bone, yes. You got it. You got it.

   7. CWChris Williamson45:17

      Okay. What next?

   8. AKAmanda Kuda45:18

      Okay.

   9. CWChris Williamson45:18

      What else?

   10. AKAmanda Kuda45:19

       So- so those are like the, the main rules for just like navigating the dating apps. The other things that I like to put into place... This sounds like I'm like a badass and have like all these rules, like, you're never gonna get (laughs) past this stone wall here-

   11. CWChris Williamson45:30

       (laughs)

   12. AKAmanda Kuda45:30

       ... but that's not true. I'm just very, very intentional. And the other thing is when you actually are going out on dates, and I've seen so many people like really screw this up and do this a very casual way. So I'm gonna tell you, I have a three rule date, and that is nothing to do with sex. It is this, there are three dates, you have to go on three dates that are actually like meaningful dates where you get to know a person. And I actually like to look at them more as like a meetup because if I'm just meeting you for the first time, I don't know if I like wanna date you or go on a date with you if I met you on a dating app or even in the grocery store. So, can we not just look at it as we're gonna have a casual, you know, hangout where we decide can we be friends? And for me that looks like you have to be able to hear the person, so you have to be at like a coffee shop, on a patio, or on a walk. A walk date is my like top one favorite date all time. Like, can we just go on a walk, like move together and also have... That way, like silence isn't uncomfortable, it's just so much better. Like, walk dates are my jam. And so many people, especially like to go back to the alcohol conversation, it's let's meet for drinks. Okay, so let's go to a bar, a happy hour, whatever, and it just completely convolutes the situation. Not only the fact that you're drinking, but more of the factor that you're in a loud environment where you can't hear the other person, you are overstimulated by everything that's going on around you. And if I wanna know if I wanna have a long-term relationship with you, I actually wanna sit down and get to know you a little bit. And so my first three dates can never be bar, concert, movies, comedy show, anything that's like raucous around me. Like, I need to have like concentration to be able to have a conversation with a person.

   13. CWChris Williamson47:07

       I love it. I- I- I-

   14. AKAmanda Kuda47:08

       Not equal, not less.

   15. CWChris Williamson47:08

       ... I can just see, I can just see the, uh, or hear the, uh, discomfort coming from a lot of people who think, "Well, yeah, like that's- that's all well and good, but like, you know, that's- that just sounds a bit sort of lame or boring." And it's like, okay, so what you're saying is the people you choose to date are so uninteresting that you can't bear to be around them without something else to entertain you. Well, no, no, no.

   16. AKAmanda Kuda47:35

       Yes.

   17. CWChris Williamson47:35

       It's just, no, that's- that's if you-

   18. AKAmanda Kuda47:37

       Yep, that's exactly what you're saying.

   19. CWChris Williamson47:38

       If you have, if you have a visceral response at the moment to the suggestions that Amanda's making that you shouldn't have this kind of hyper, uh, hyper-stimulated, hyper-normalized, uh, environment where there's loads of stuff going on, and if you've got, it's kind of just below your breastbone, kind of just above your stomach, if there's like a bit of a hot feeling there and you're finding yourself swallowing a lot, that is because it's triggering you. And that means that there's a little bit of something for you to work on there.

   20. AKAmanda Kuda48:04

       Mm-hmm. A- absolutely. Yeah. It's just, you know, you have to look at have... And of course I've had my days where, you know, those were the fun days and those, that was, that was my 20s. That's great. And if you're still in your 20s, like just don't... You know, write this down, listen to this in a couple years-

   21. CWChris Williamson48:19

       (laughs)

   22. AKAmanda Kuda48:20

       ... and you're, you're gonna thank me so much more.

   23. CWChris Williamson48:21

       Yeah. Yeah.

   24. AKAmanda Kuda48:22

       Come back (laughs) to this episode, pin it, flag it, do whatever.

   25. CWChris Williamson48:24

       Yeah.

   26. AKAmanda Kuda48:25

       But, so if you're twen- if you're in your 20s, just go have fun, screw around, do whatever. Um, you deserve that time. That's like your rite of passage to do all of that. But if you're in a point where you actually value your own time and you wanna have a meaningful connection with another person, you, you can't do all of these other things that just signal transaction, right? And that's exactly what any of these dates signal, is okay, I don't, I don't find you interesting or I don't have enough faith in myself to be interesting that we could go do one of these other things where we're a little less like stimulated around us. And frankly, a walking date, there's plenty to stimulate. You're- you're going to pass other people. I mean, obviously you have to live in an environment where that's, it's warm enough and whatnot, but you're, that is the ultimate stimulation. You have things all around you to talk about, people you're passing that you can comment on. It just gets your brain moving. I think that...I wish I could, like, trademark the walking date and sell it to people.

   27. CWChris Williamson49:19

       The walking date, the walking date's a good idea. Yeah. I like as well-

   28. AKAmanda Kuda49:22

       Yeah.

   29. CWChris Williamson49:22

       ... there's, (clears throat) in... I f- I sound like someone who's just lived and breathed Neil Strauss's The Game, but the only references I have from the guys' side, there isn't an equivalent for guys of a holistic approach for dating as there is for girls. There's, there's just pick-up artistry, ev- at least if you're my age. Now there is some slightly more good stuff, and I'm going to give you my number one book, guys, for, uh, uh, dating advice at the end of this podcast-

   30. AKAmanda Kuda49:46

       Mm-hmm.
5. 1:00:00 – 1:09:35

   Mm-hmm. …

   1. CWChris Williamson1:00:00

      of, um, attraction in relationships, how needy one person is and how the other is. And it maps-

   2. AKAmanda Kuda1:00:06

      Mm-hmm.

   3. CWChris Williamson1:00:06

      ... pretty accurately to reality. So, Models by Mark Manson. If you listen to the audiobook, uh, there's an updated version which is about six hours long on Audible, and it is, it's awesome. I'll link it, it'll be, I'll, I'll put it in the show notes below, in fact. Mark Manson. Uh, I'll put it in the show notes below if you wanna go and pick it up. Uh, bonus round, David Deida, The Way of the Superior Man.

   4. AKAmanda Kuda1:00:25

      Mm-hmm.

   5. CWChris Williamson1:00:25

      Now that is a little bit more woo-woowy, it talks a lot about masculine and feminine energies and stuff. Uh, probably-

   6. AKAmanda Kuda1:00:32

      Mm-hmm.

   7. CWChris Williamson1:00:32

      ... an interesting read. More of an interesting read for girls than, uh, Models is, but Way of the Superior Man, it very much talks about how as a man you should be, uh, the principles that you should be leading your life by, basically. There's some inter-gender dynamics and some relationship stuff in there.

   8. AKAmanda Kuda1:00:50

      Mm-hmm.

   9. CWChris Williamson1:00:50

      But there's other stuff to do with how you deal with relationship, uh, and career challenges, how you deal with moving into a new epoch of your life, and all this sorts of stuff.

   10. AKAmanda Kuda1:00:59

       Mm-hmm.

   11. CWChris Williamson1:00:59

       So that's my... Like, I don't have a big, a big repository of dating advice, which potentially I should do given the fact, as I've said, that, um, my, my dating life's sort of fairly terrible. Um, but I'm gonna-

   12. AKAmanda Kuda1:01:09

       (laughs)

   13. CWChris Williamson1:01:09

       ... I give the floor to you. So what... First up, what are the main errors you see girls making when they try and date?

   14. AKAmanda Kuda1:01:19

       I think it is being either too agreeable, like, "I just have to give everything to this person, I'll do whatever this person wants, I'm going to completely change who I am or act a different way," and just not standing in your confidence and your worth, and, and feeling like you have to change or show up in a certain way to be what that person wants or desires or needs. Um, I, you know, that, w-... it's just, it's just part of the way that we ... women are brought up. And but you can reprogram it. If you notice it, you can reprogram it. Um, and, oh, geez, what are some other ones? I think leaning too, not, leaning too far towards your masculine or your feminine side, right? Um, I think that that can be, in relationships for women, that can be something that's a little bit, um, detrimental because either you're trying to, like, stand your ground and say, "No, I'm this person. You have to s- you have to do whatever I want," and then you-

   15. CWChris Williamson1:02:14

       Mm-hmm.

   16. AKAmanda Kuda1:02:14

       ... you're just a bitch.

   17. CWChris Williamson1:02:15

       Mm-hmm.

   18. AKAmanda Kuda1:02:15

       Or you are the other way and you're too agreeable to someone or you're always like ... uh, that's more of on the, in the psychology side, it's more of you're the, you're the, um ... oh, geez, I'm losing my words now. Um, you're the anxious attached person, right? You're like, you'll do whatever that other person-

   19. CWChris Williamson1:02:32

       Yeah.

   20. AKAmanda Kuda1:02:32

       ... wants because you need the love from them so bad.

   21. CWChris Williamson1:02:34

       Neither of those polarities are actually that enjoyable to be around as a guy.

   22. AKAmanda Kuda1:02:38

       Oh, no.

   23. CWChris Williamson1:02:38

       I can't, I can't speak, I can't speak about what guys are like in that relation for girls, but as a guy, um, it feels like whoever it is, is playing a role. Now, that could be your true personality. You could be the 99th out of 100 agreeable person, or you could be the 99 out of 100 disagreeable person. That could be you.

   24. AKAmanda Kuda1:03:04

       Yeah.

   25. CWChris Williamson1:03:04

       But the fact that there's so little nuance-

   26. AKAmanda Kuda1:03:07

       Mm-hmm.

   27. CWChris Williamson1:03:07

       ... to the way that you operate, the fact that, like, everything that I say is rebutted with, "Well, I don't agree with that. I don't think that that's right." Uh, or like a scathing comment or, you know, like, it ... whatever it is, if it's just ... If I can ask you a question, this is the-

   28. AKAmanda Kuda1:03:25

       Mm-hmm.

   29. CWChris Williamson1:03:25

       This is the fucking heuristic. I've worked it out. Um, this is the heuristic to use. If I can ask you a question and I can predict your answer before you answer it-

   30. AKAmanda Kuda1:03:36

       Hmm.

Episode duration: 1:16:23