Modern WisdomWhat Are Women Actually Attracted To? - Catherine Salmon
CHAPTERS
- 0:00 – 0:20
Romance fantasies vs. “soft, gentle men” that don’t sell
Catherine opens with an observation from romance publishing: attempts to market softer, gentler male leads didn’t perform well. She frames this as a mismatch between what might be convenient in daily life and what many people fantasize about.
- •Romance-market evidence as a clue to female fantasy preferences
- •Distinction between practical partner traits vs. erotic/romantic fantasy
- •Why “do-whatever-you-want” men may not be the fantasy ideal
- 0:20 – 1:59
Studying “facial deposit” porn: is it arousing, degrading, or neither?
Chris asks about Catherine’s research on external ejaculation imagery. Catherine explains why the topic matters to debates about pornography, degradation claims, and what viewers actually perceive.
- •Cultural claim: cum shots are inherently degrading to women
- •Key provocation: why is internal ejaculation treated as “sacred” but external as “degrading”?
- •Ubiquity of the act in mainstream porn motivates empirical study
- 1:59 – 4:41
Experiment design: faces, expressions, sexual orientation, and viewer reactions
Catherine details how the study manipulated recipient sex (male/female) and facial expression (happy/neutral/unhappy). The results show orientation-matched preferences and a strong influence of perceived enjoyment/consent cues.
- •Stimuli: male vs. female faces; happy vs. neutral vs. unhappy reactions
- •Straight men’s lowest preference: male recipients; gay men’s highest preference: male recipients
- •Women overall liked the images less; bisexual women liked them more than hetero/lesbian women
- •Largest effect: recipient appears to enjoy it (positive affect/consent cue)
- 4:41 – 6:20
Why people differ: disgust sensitivity, sociosexuality, and sexual openness
They discuss individual differences that predict responses to bodily-fluid imagery. Pathogen avoidance reduces interest, while permissive sexual attitudes and short-term mating orientation increase liking.
- •Disgust/pathogen avoidance predicts lower liking of facial-fluid imagery
- •Sociosexuality correlates with greater enjoyment of the stimuli
- •Openness/sexual exploration as a potential driver (especially among bisexual women)
- •Arousal and moral/“degrading” judgments can diverge across viewers
- 6:20 – 7:43
Why porn externalizes ejaculation (and why the face is a focal point)
Catherine explains production and evolutionary-psychology-adjacent reasons: external ejaculation is visually unambiguous “proof,” and faces provide identity, emotion, and novelty cues. They connect this to variety seeking and the Coolidge effect.
- •Filming logic: external shot provides a clear visual endpoint
- •Faces are attention magnets and convey individual identity and emotion
- •Novelty/variety cues may enhance arousal (Coolidge effect)
- •Porn depictions vs. real-life logistics and preferences can differ
- 7:43 – 14:40
The psychology of rough sex: passion fantasies, “testing strength,” and novelty
Chris raises research suggesting rough sex aligns more with novelty seeking than aggression. Catherine explores possible motivations for women’s interest/initiations, including passion/commitment fantasies and “strength assessment” analogies from animal behavior.
- •Rough sex often framed as aggression, but data may link it to novelty seeking
- •Fantasy theme: ‘he wants me so much he can’t control himself’
- •Gladiator frog “bump test” as an analogy for selecting physical prowess
- •Roughness can be playful/consensual and tied to experimentation
- 14:40 – 15:54
Jealousy-linked roughness and reported female orgasm timing (and measurement limits)
They discuss findings that male jealousy/separation can correlate with rougher intercourse. Catherine notes women reported shorter time to orgasm in those contexts, while acknowledging these studies rely on self-report rather than lab observation.
- •Contexts: jealousy or separation can increase roughness (harder thrusting, deeper penetration)
- •Women reported shorter duration to orgasm during that sex
- •Interpretation: could reflect heightened arousal/stimulation rather than hostility
- •Method caveat: primarily self-report data (not lab observation)
- 15:54 – 18:36
Why porn has endless niches: common templates plus individual difference overlays
Chris asks why sexual tastes are so varied. Catherine argues porn looks diverse on the surface but is built on recurring templates (similar bodies/traits), with niches reflecting individual differences and mating strategies.
- •Many genres share underlying similarities (e.g., typical ‘attractive’ bodies)
- •Variation shows up in positions, dynamics, and ‘exotic’ features
- •Platforms (e.g., Pornhub categories) amplify niche discovery
- •Research link: infidelity inclination correlates with preference for group-sex porn
- 18:36 – 20:38
What women consume: less visual porn, more written erotica and fan fiction
Catherine describes consistent sex differences in consumption patterns: men skew visual; many women prefer written erotica. They explore potential contributors, from visual orientation to hormone-related masculinization hypotheses, and cite site-traffic patterns.
- •Women consume less visual porn on average than men
- •Many women ‘read their porn’ (romance, erotica, fan fiction)
- •Hypotheses: visual orientation differences; possible prenatal/adult testosterone links
- •Web data: women’s top erotic sites skew to authors/romance/fan fiction platforms
- 20:38 – 29:48
Why books can outperform video for women: narrative, commitment, and customizable fantasy
Chris draws on his experience in dark romance conventions; Catherine explains why text can better deliver context about the partner and long-term commitment themes. They discuss actor-specific variability in visual media and how fan fiction bridges image + story.
- •Erotica as fantasy about long-term mates/commitment, not just sex scenes
- •Books provide richer internal context: who he is, devotion, story arc
- •Visual media is constrained by casting—if the actor isn’t your type, it fails
- •Fan fiction solves this by selecting attractive characters and expanding narrative
- 29:48 – 35:46
Feminine men in pop culture vs. erotic ‘revealed preferences’ and masculine archetypes
Chris asks why public messaging celebrates more feminine/agreeable men while erotica cover models remain hyper-masculine. Catherine attributes some divergence to social narratives and to enduring ancestral preferences for protection/provision—plus tradeoffs (‘cad vs dad’).
- •Public narratives can push ideals that differ from private fantasy markets
- •Erotica heroes often signal protection, provision, ‘end-of-the-world’ competence
- •Variation exists, but market outcomes suggest many fantasies favor masculinity
- •Tradeoff theme: ‘cad vs dad’ and the unrealistic conversion arc in fiction
- 35:46 – 47:16
Women and true crime: victim-avoidance learning vs. ‘apex predator’ attraction
They pivot to women’s interest in true crime and serial killers. Catherine proposes multiple functions: learning to avoid victimization and fascination with dangerous, high-dominance men—especially when softened by devotion in fictional portrayals like Dexter.
- •True crime as adaptive learning: understanding threats to avoid victimhood
- •Serial killer fascination as ‘apex predator’ allure in imagination
- •Fiction often adds emotional attachment, increasing appeal (Dexter as atypical)
- •Environment matters: danger can shift mate preferences toward aggression/prowess
- 47:16 – 51:22
Is evolutionary psychology sexist? Politics, stereotypes, and reality-based differences
Chris asks whether evolutionary psychology conflicts with feminism. Catherine argues the debate is politicized and that recognizing sex differences isn’t inherently ‘sexist’; stereotypes often reflect statistical regularities but don’t describe every individual.
- •Terms like ‘sexist’ and ‘feminist’ are heavily politicized in this debate
- •Core claim: sexes faced different adaptive problems → different solutions
- •Stereotypes can be overgeneralizations of real distributions
- •Distinguishing descriptive claims (what is) from prescriptions (what should be)
- 51:22 – 1:02:32
Taboos, reversals, and ‘look at me’ signals: kinks, babies, aggressive cuteness, and screaming fans
They explore how social constraints can channel taboo themes into private sexuality and pornography, and discuss speculative signals and behaviors—from baby-head chemicals to ‘aggressive cuteness’ and female screaming at male megastars as attention-getting/sexual selection behavior.
- •Private bedroom dynamics can invert public norms (taboo/reversal effects)
- •Speculation: decentralized online porn may reflect more taboo scenario content
- •Baby-related cues: possible sex-differentiated behavioral effects (protective vs. docile)
- •‘Aggressive cuteness’ as intense affect with odd aggressive expression
- •Screaming at concerts framed as contagious attention-getting (‘look at me’)
- 1:02:32 – 1:03:27
Where to find Catherine Salmon + closing remarks
Catherine shares where listeners can follow her work and contact her. Chris closes the episode and points viewers to other clips and subscribing.
- •University of Redlands page as a primary hub
- •ResearchGate for papers
- •Email contact for questions
- •Show wrap-up and subscription prompt
