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My First Million

Brainstorming +$1M Business Ideas With Soylent's Co-Founder | ft. John Coogan (#496)

Episode 496: Shaan Puri and Sam Parr talk with John Coogan, co-Founder of Soylent & Lucy and EIR at Founders Fund.

Shaan PurihostSam Parrhost

Sep 19, 20231h 6mWatch on YouTube

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Chapter summaries

Setting the tone: meeting John Coogan, “say whatever you believe,” and why founders hold back
The hosts welcome John Coogan and recap his unusual founder background, including Soylent and Lucy. John argues that founders became guarded after years of media backlash, but thinks the environment has shifted and people can speak more freely now. The conversation sets up a wide-ranging episode mixing startup war stories, business ideas, and cultural takes.
- •Shaan Puri introduces John Coogan’s background across Soylent, Lucy, YC, and content creation
- •John says many founders built “scar tissue” from negative media cycles and fear of being taken out of context
- •John claims the social penalty for speaking openly has eased and encourages founders to share what they believe
- •Shaan references a prior guest who refused to share his best stories, pressing John not to repeat that mistake
Life in hacker houses and the “wall of sticky-note” failed startup ideas
John describes the early grind: moving into chaotic living situations, hacking nonstop, and cycling through idea after idea. He shares examples of projects that were either bad, too early, or impossible given their resources. The section frames Soylent as a breakthrough that emerged from practical constraints rather than a grand plan.
- •John describes moving into a supposed “Social Network” house that turned out to be squalor, then living three people in a one-bedroom in San Francisco
- •The team kept sticky-note plans for what to build after each idea failed, and many did fail
- •Examples include a photo-to-shirt concept and an early attempt at cloud-streamed gaming that was years too early
- •John emphasizes failure modes like timing, execution, team fit, and go-to-market
How Soylent began: Rob’s blog fame, food as the biggest expense, and a 30-day stress test
John explains that Soylent started as a solution to their biggest remaining cost: food. Rob experimented with mixing powders and committed to living on the formula for 30 days, which created a powerful proof point and curiosity. Naming it “Soylent” became a deliberate viral wedge that pulled people into debate and attention.
- •John describes Rob’s Hacker News following and viral blog posts that helped give the eventual launch an audience
- •Food was the primary expense, pushing the team to minimize it with a powder-based meal replacement
- •Rob ran a 30-day “stress test” living on Soylent, turning skepticism into “at least I’ll try a sip” curiosity
- •John says the name “Soylent” was chosen intentionally because it would be provocative and viral
Viral flywheel and signaling: why the product became a cultural lightning rod
The group unpacks why Soylent spread so aggressively: people argued about it, corrected each other, and fueled the old comment-driven distribution algorithms. Shaan frames Soylent as a powerful “signal” of identity—tech affiliation, productivity obsession, contrarian posture. John adds that food is such a personal expression that building enduring monopoly power in food brands is hard.
- •John describes how debate and “corrections” in comments helped every post propagate further on early social algorithms
- •He recounts how coverage climbed from smaller outlets to major media appearances
- •Shaan explains Soylent as identity signaling: tech affiliation, productivity-first values, contrarian vibes
- •John argues food’s badge value makes dominance difficult because consumers constantly seek differentiation
Peter Thiel’s “widgets business” critique, the venture mismatch, and the outcome reality check
John recounts a pitch meeting where Peter Thiel framed Soylent as a “widgets business” that should be run with normal selling and marketing discipline rather than magical network effects. John says they later raised significant venture anyway, which created misalignment and problems. Sam probes peak revenue and the sale outcome, contrasting hype versus returns and what that meant for common shareholders.
- •John explains Thiel’s focus on moats and why investors sometimes incorrectly assume network effects will appear
- •John says Soylent had product-market fit but still required real selling and marketing execution
- •Sam asks about peak revenue and sale outcome, pushing on how it compared to money raised
- •John notes the sale dynamics meant common equity likely didn’t see much upside relative to capital raised
Lucy today: competing with Zyn, product differentiation, and the distribution unlock
John explains Lucy as a nicotine gum and pouch brand positioned against Zyn, differentiated by factors like flavor and strength. Sam shares his own pouch habits and praises Lucy’s “breaker” feature. John agrees that getting into ubiquitous retail channels is a major lever for scaling the business.
- •John describes Lucy as nicotine gum and pouch products competing directly with Zyn
- •Sam highlights Lucy’s “breaker” concept—biting to release liquid flavor—and says he likes the citrus option
- •John explains the product motivation: addressing dry-mouth complaints with a liquid flavor capsule
- •John emphasizes retail distribution as a key unlock for “massive value”
Business Idea #1: a creator-owned VPN (“Beast VPN”) and why the category prints cash
John pitches a creator-owned VPN, arguing VPNs are massive advertisers with high margins and global reach, yet lack a single dominant, front-facing winner. He frames the space as marketing-driven rather than moat-driven and suggests creators with international audiences could own the product instead of just selling ads for others. Shaan and Sam connect it to their own thinking about creator distribution and recurring revenue.
- •John says VPNs are ubiquitous advertisers on YouTube, yet there’s no obvious venture-backed runaway winner
- •Sam notes many VPN companies are opaque, hard to research via LinkedIn, and can be based in far-flung jurisdictions
- •John argues the category becomes a marketing game once basic trust-and-feature checkboxes are met
- •Shaan likes the international fit and recurring software revenue, and mentions a similar “crypto VPN” idea they considered for Milk Road
Business Idea #2: ammunition roll-up—supply chain efficiency, shortages, and the ethics debate
John suggests a private-equity-style roll-up of ammunition manufacturers, arguing demand is durable and operational improvements could create value. Sam and Shaan debate whether they’d invest due to reputational and moral discomfort, even while acknowledging consumer demand. John argues that reluctance from many investors may itself create opportunity.
- •John claims gun ownership demand is durable and suggests ammo prices have risen alongside shortages
- •He proposes a roll-up approach: buy several specialized manufacturers and improve operations rather than reinvent the product
- •Sam expresses he wouldn’t want the business tied to his legacy, acknowledging hypocrisy between consumption and investment
- •John says that social and moral aversion may create “alpha” because fewer people want to participate
Tangent: the Roman Empire meme, historical fixation, and “threat assessment” daydreaming
The hosts pivot into a viral prompt about how often men think about the Roman Empire, with Sam saying it’s frequent. The conversation expands to broader “masculine daydreaming” about danger scenarios—historical catastrophes, tactical fantasies, and situational awareness in everyday life. They trade examples ranging from airplanes to restaurant seating and airport baggage claim security.
- •Shaan asks Sam how often he thinks about the Roman Empire; Sam says he thinks about it a lot, even recently
- •Sam says he spends significant time thinking about historical disasters and what he would do in extreme situations
- •John connects the meme to tech culture’s “in the arena” obsession and Roman imagery
- •The group shares everyday versions of tactical thinking: seating with a view of doors and noticing security gaps
Founders Fund culture, Keith Rabois’s online persona, and who’s actually the best poster
Shaan asks John what it’s like spending time around Founders Fund, and John says the group avoids a monoculture despite being small. Sam challenges why Keith Rabois can be “needlessly rude” online; John suggests it’s partly defensive behavior and aggressively “holding the line” on what he sees as untrue. They also discuss elite Twitter personas and trolling as an art form.
- •John says Founders Fund manages to avoid a monoculture and includes very different personality types
- •Sam criticizes Keith Rabois’s abrasive behavior on social media; John attributes it to aggressively stopping misinformation
- •They discuss how years of online conflict made many tech figures defensive and “walled off”
- •John names accounts he considers top-tier posters and cites a prank that fooled major media
Debate: are lifestyle businesses “worthless,” or the smartest path to wealth and freedom?
Sam confronts John’s provocative claim that “lifestyle businesses are worthless,” prompting a structured debate about impact versus probability of success. John argues venture-backed, hypergrowth companies drive outsized societal change, while Sam argues the venture model treats many founders as disposable. They converge toward a synthesis: choose the hardest, most value-creating problem you’re equipped to solve and match financing to the business’s true shape.
- •John defines lifestyle businesses as non-venture, non-blitzscaling companies without extreme moats and hypergrowth expectations
- •John argues big impact typically comes from venture outcomes and power-law companies
- •Sam counters that founders bear the downside risk while investors spread bets across many potential failures
- •John and Sam agree that raising venture for the wrong business can be harmful, and financing should fit the idea
Politics and hindsight: who John supports, and how presidents are judged over time
Sam asks John where he aligns politically; John says he votes across parties depending on who he thinks will have the highest impact on technology and business. John names a specific Republican candidate he likes and explains why a computer science background in leadership would be interesting. He also reflects on Trump, arguing history may judge leaders based on how their decisions look in hindsight rather than intentions at the time.
- •John says he votes for candidates across parties based on perceived impact on technology and the business community
- •He expresses interest in a Republican candidate he describes as having CIA experience, a Palantir board role, and a computer science background
- •John says he voted against Trump twice but believes Trump influenced public attention on China and great-power competition
- •John argues evaluations of presidents resemble venture judgments: outcomes can look different decades later
Why AI “wrappers” can be great: building reps, the Lensa analogy, and the Barnum-effect app idea
John pushes back on dismissing small AI products as “just wrappers,” arguing that even if they aren’t venture-scale, they’re valuable training grounds for young builders and can still make money. He points to a “Lensa for ChatGPT” moment: a viral consumer app that hides complex infrastructure behind a simple, fun experience. John proposes a viral personality/astrology-style product leveraging the Barnum effect—outputs that feel deeply personal despite being broadly applicable.
- •John says critiques about “wrappers” may be relevant for later-stage investing but shouldn’t discourage early builders
- •He gives examples of narrow apps, like improving awkward dating-app texting via tuned prompts
- •John describes Lensa-style virality: consumers pay for a fun, simple experience without understanding the underlying tech
- •John proposes building a viral personality/astrology chatbot that exploits the Barnum effect to feel personalized
Telemarketing scam story: the “shipping department” script and $500 tape invoices
John tells a detailed story about briefly working, as a teenager, at a telemarketing operation he describes as a scam. The playbook relied on getting transferred to a company’s shipping department and implying an existing relationship before sending overpriced tape with an invoice. He explains how turnover was managed to prevent employees from realizing and spreading that it was unethical.
- •John describes the script tactic: immediately asking for “shipping department, please” to sound like a disconnected call
- •The pitch hinged on a universal truth—shipping departments use clear packing tape—making agreement easy
- •They shipped tape with an invoice rather than collecting payment upfront, pricing it to slip through accounting approval
- •John says employees were frequently fired to prevent the “it’s a scam” realization from spreading internally
Closing: why John does YouTube, his podcast focus, and ending on lifestyle-first content creation
John explains he started making content during the pandemic, tying it back to how content helped drive Soylent’s early virality and why having a voice matters for entrepreneurs. He plugs his YouTube channel and his podcast, describing it as deep dives rather than interviews. The hosts close by noting the episode’s intentionally wide-ranging nature and aligning on keeping content fun rather than over-optimized.
- •John says content helped power Soylent early, and having a voice is valuable for entrepreneurs
- •He shares where to find his work: his YouTube channel and his podcast, described as deep dives on “power law” people and companies
- •John admits his content topics range widely, from geopolitics to business breakdowns
- •The hosts end by embracing a lifestyle-oriented approach to content rather than extreme optimization

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