Brainstorming +$1M Business Ideas With Soylent's Co-Founder | ft. John Coogan (#496)

1. 0:00 – 3:15

   Intro

   1. SPShaan Puri0:00

      It's useful for crypto users to h- to use a VPN, and so that was one of my ideas-

   2. SPSpeaker0:06

      Yeah

   3. SPShaan Puri0:06

      ... but we sold before we got around to doing that.

   4. SPSpeaker0:08

      That, that, that would've been cool if you would've done that. That would've been a... That's a pretty cool move. Too bad.

   5. SPShaan Puri0:14

      [laughs]

   6. SPSpeaker0:16

      [laughs]

   7. SPShaan Puri0:21

      [upbeat music] All right, what's up? We got John Coogan here. Uh, John is somebody who I only know through a lunch at a, uh, Mexican restaurant in LA, and that's the best way to meet anybody who's gonna be a podcast guest. So, uh, you, you got a crazy background. Give people the rundown if they don't know who, who you are. So you've, uh, been an entrepreneur your whole life, never had a job. Started two companies that were both really interesting. Soylent, which was basically making a, uh, a meal replacement drink is the easiest way to explain it. Tasted like the milk of Honey Nut Cheerios, which I always appreciated.

   8. SPSpeaker0:58

      [laughs]

   9. SPShaan Puri0:59

      And then, uh, Lucy Gum, which was like a nicotine gum. Both of them went through YC. Together they've raised over $130 million. A bunch of good lessons there. Um, you're also an EIR at Founders Fund, which is one of the more interesting places to, to kind of hang out or be a part of. And, uh, like us, you've made the mistake of leaving entrepreneurship to just be a YouTuber. And this is great, so you know how to make content too, which is, which is amazing. You make really awesome videos. Uh, Sam was sending me one this morning. Sam, you like his stuff, huh?

   10. SPSpeaker1:28

       I love it. Yeah, I like your stuff, John. I, uh... By the way, Sh- Shaan, I'm an investor of Lucy, so I gotta get that out of the way. But-

   11. SPShaan Puri1:34

       And probably a user, uh, too at, at one point for sure. [laughs]

   12. SPSpeaker1:37

       But I mean, I think you did invest, like, four years ago, so, uh, you know, the fact that I haven't been on yet, I think I earned my stripes by posting on YouTube, playing in the content world, you know.

   13. SPShaan Puri1:46

       What is your... Guys, I don't even know, uh, can you say what the valuation is? I think I invested $25,000 at a $10 million valuation.

   14. SPSpeaker1:53

       At 10, yeah, you were probably in, like, the seed round, and now the company's worth, like, 60, 70 mil.

   15. SPShaan Puri1:57

       All right. I've-

   16. SPSpeaker1:58

       There you go

   17. SPShaan Puri1:58

       ... on paper I've made a little bit of money.

   18. SPSpeaker1:59

       [laughs] Yeah, not bad.

   19. SPShaan Puri2:01

       We had... I think we could tell this story. We had one of the other co-founders of Lucy come on the pod once.

   20. SPSpeaker2:07

       Yeah.

   21. SPShaan Puri2:07

       And this guy, we had met him at a, at some, like, event. A first... Maybe a hustle event.

   22. SPSpeaker2:11

       Yeah.

   23. SPShaan Puri2:11

       So some, some nighttime event.

   24. SPSpeaker2:13

       Yeah.

   25. SPShaan Puri2:14

       And this guy was holding court.

   26. SPSpeaker2:15

       That was Dave.

   27. SPShaan Puri2:16

       Dave, yeah. He was telling stories. There's five people around him. He's got ideas. Uh, you know, he's like, "Oh, there needs to be something called Pleasure Island, and it's a place where you can just go sin." And I was like, "Wow, who is this guy? What is he talking about?" And he's telling stories and he's amazing. Everybody's just e- en- captured by this guy. I'm like, "We gotta have this guy on the pod." He comes on the pod, tells none of the stories and none of the ideas.

   28. SPSpeaker2:38

       [laughs]

   29. SPShaan Puri2:38

       He's like, "Nah, I don't want to tell all those on the pod." And we were like, "Dude." And so I don't even think we ever ran the episode because he refused to tell the good stuff. So John, will you make the same mistake as your pal?

   30. SPSpeaker2:48

       Absolutely not. I mean, I, I, I do think a lot of founders have a t- just a ton of scar tissue built up from, like, the last 10 years of, like, the media just going after tech founders and, like, tech bros, brogrammers. Like, it was really aggressive for a while there. Like, anything you said would be, like, taken out of context-
2. 3:15 – 14:50

   Soylent origin story

   1. SPSpeaker3:15

      about things.

   2. SPShaan Puri3:15

      [laughs]

   3. SPSpeaker3:15

      Just say whatever you believe.

   4. SPShaan Puri3:16

      So we're gonna do some of your philosophy.

   5. SPSpeaker3:18

      Okay.

   6. SPShaan Puri3:18

      Some of the, the philosophy, like cancel culture-

   7. SPSpeaker3:21

      Yeah

   8. SPShaan Puri3:21

      ... is over. But first, let's-

   9. SPSpeaker3:22

      Yeah

   10. SPShaan Puri3:22

       ... run through the background here, 'cause both of these startups... Normally we try not to spend too much time on the guest with the background, but yours, both are so interesting. Um-

   11. SPSpeaker3:30

       Yeah

   12. SPShaan Puri3:30

       ... can you just tell us, uh, you know, give us the origin story for Soylent, because when this came out, it was a very different idea than anything I was seeing anybody do in Silicon Valley. Nobody was... At that time-

   13. SPSpeaker3:41

       Yeah

   14. SPShaan Puri3:41

       ... this was maybe 2012, I had just moved to San Francisco.

   15. SPSpeaker3:44

       Yep.

   16. SPShaan Puri3:45

       And, uh, you had kinda like Uber and Airbnb, but very few people were in the, in the s- San Francisco venture community were doing, like, like a, like a drink or, like, a product that you could eat-

   17. SPSpeaker3:56

       Yeah

   18. SPShaan Puri3:56

       ... you could drink, um, that wasn't software-based and, but still was innovative. And so it was, like, kind of in, in this mix. And I remember Andreessen Horowitz got behind it, and some others, and so it was a very interesting thing. And I think it started out of, like, a hacker house, right? Like, you guys had a crazy house, is that right?

   19. SPSpeaker4:13

       Yeah. Uh, I mean, bunch of funny stories from that. This was the... Yeah, Warby Parker was, like, the first e-commerce company to kind of think about it from, like, a tech first angle. Uh, we were a couple years after them. Um, right around the same era as, like, Dollar Shave Club, if you remember that company.

   20. SPShaan Puri4:30

       Yeah.

   21. SPSpeaker4:30

       Um, but yeah, we met in a hacker house. Uh, my, my co-founder and I, we went to preschool, middle school, high school together, went to college in the same city. And so we move out to Silicon Valley, we're looking for a place. We find something on, uh, like, Craigslist. It's like an Airbnb listing, and they're like, "This place is incredible. It's got a pool. It's got five bedrooms. It's exactly like The Social Network. You're gonna love it." We show up, the pool is filled with algae.

   22. SPShaan Puri4:57

       [laughs]

   23. SPSpeaker4:58

       The bathrooms don't work. It's just absolute squalor. So we grind for, like, six months there. Eventually we move to the Tenderloin, which is an even nicer community.

   24. SPShaan Puri5:07

       [laughs]

   25. SPSpeaker5:08

       And, and, uh, we're living in technically a one bedroom with three guys. So I was living in the living room. Ano- another guy, uh, Rob, the guy who actually came up with the idea for Soylent, he was living in what was technically a closet 'cause it didn't have a, a window. And we were just, we were just hacking. We were just-

   26. SPShaan Puri5:25

       Not a lot of dating going on.

   27. SPSpeaker5:26

       Yeah, not a lot of dating.

   28. SPShaan Puri5:27

       [laughs]

   29. SPSpeaker5:27

       Um, not a lot of anything.

   30. SPShaan Puri5:29

       [laughs]
3. 14:50 – 17:00

   Lucy background

   1. SPSam Parr14:50

      Got it

   2. SPSpeaker14:50

      ... the value of that company. But-

   3. SPSam Parr14:51

      But then you started Lucy. So Lucy i- is cool. Uh, y- are you there full time right now?

   4. SPSpeaker14:57

      No, I'm, like, one day a week at Lucy, um, mostly helping out with stuff like this, doing content, and then ideally, like, brokering deals with other content creators. Like, we want to do more-

   5. SPSam Parr15:10

      We being Founders Fund?

   6. SPSpeaker15:12

      Uh, no, no. Me being the, the... We, we being the Lucy team.

   7. SPSam Parr15:15

      Got it.

   8. SPSpeaker15:15

      So to give some background, you know, Soylent is this nutrition product. Uh, we run that for four or five years, and then Lucy is a, uh, nicotine gum brand and nicotine pouch brand. So if your view- if your viewers are familiar with Zyn, uh, you know, we're a direct competitor to Zyn, but we differentiate on flavor, strength, and a couple other-

   9. SPSam Parr15:34

      Dude, I'm a-

   10. SPSpeaker15:34

       ... ingredient factors

   11. SPSam Parr15:35

       ... I'm a all day, every day type of Zyn guy. Um-

   12. SPSpeaker15:38

       Yeah, yeah. I, I imagine most people in the audience are. [laughs] It's extremely addictive.

   13. SPSam Parr15:42

       I just wish that Lucy sold it at 7-Eleven because going to the gas station's, like, part of my routine, you know? I gotta go see my boys there-

   14. SPSpeaker15:49

       [laughs]

   15. SPSam Parr15:49

       ... and, and hang out and... [laughs]

   16. SPSpeaker15:51

       I mean, 100%. That is, uh, that is the name of the game, and that was what will actually unlock, like, massive value in the Lucy business, 100%.

   17. SPShaan Puri15:58

       Pe- people should know that, by the way. When you, when you email Sam, you're like, "Hey, I know you're a super busy guy and so I'm gonna keep this brief," Sam's busy at 7-Eleven-

   18. SPSpeaker16:07

       Yeah. [laughs]

   19. SPShaan Puri16:07

       ... shooting the shit with his boys-

   20. SPSpeaker16:08

       Yeah. [laughs]

   21. SPShaan Puri16:08

       ... on the curb.

   22. SPSam Parr16:09

       Those Lotto tickets don't scratch themselves, my friend. [laughs]

   23. SPSpeaker16:12

       Yeah.

   24. SPShaan Puri16:13

       [laughs] Exactly. He's busy, just in a different way than you expect. [laughs]

   25. SPSpeaker16:18

       Yeah. I, I gotta drop off, like, a pallet of Lucy at that exact 7-Eleven-

   26. SPShaan Puri16:21

       [laughs]

   27. SPSpeaker16:21

       ... and just be like, "Here, it's free. Now Sam can get his Lucy."

   28. SPSam Parr16:24

       Well, you... The, the Lucy things are cool because basically a Zyn is just a pouch, but, uh, Lucy has, it's called a breaker. And so you, like, bite into this and you get, like, a little menthol or something, like a flavor. I, I love it. I like the citrus one.

   29. SPSpeaker16:36

       Yeah, it's like a l- it's like a liquid flavoring. So yeah, I mean, a lot of people complain that the pouches, although they're, they're much better than the pouches of previous years, they dry your mouth out, and that's the number one complaint. So we figured it out. You know, how do we address that? Well, let's just actually take liquid flavoring and put it inside a capsule. Then, and then when you break it, it moistens the pouch and then doesn't dry your mouth out.

   30. SPShaan Puri16:56

       Gotcha. All right. And l- let's talk about ideas. So those two ideas you did,

4. 17:00 – 23:20

   Business Idea 1: Creator-owned VPN

   1. SPShaan Puri17:00

      I would say are in the, like, top 1% of weirdo ideas, which means I love it and I love you.

   2. SPSpeaker17:06

      Ah. [laughs]

   3. SPShaan Puri17:07

      What are your other weirdo ideas that you're not doing? Uh, you sent us a couple of bullet points, but ex- explain them. So let's, let's run through some of your ideas.

   4. SPSpeaker17:14

      Yeah. I mean, I think the first one that would be interesting to talk about just 'cause, you know, you guys are obviously creators as well is, um, just this idea of a creator-owned VPN. So we've seen that VPNs might be the number one advertiser on YouTube. I don't have the exact stats, but anyone who's listened to a podcast or you watched a YouTube video can probably name five different VPNs, and yet none of them are venture backed. There's not, like, one or th- they're not, like, majorly venture backed. They're not big venture winners. There's not, like, one that's running away with it.

   5. SPSam Parr17:44

      Have you researched these guys?

   6. SPSpeaker17:46

      Yeah, yeah. A little bit.

   7. SPSam Parr17:47

      They're, like, all in Panama or Moldo- m- the, the Mold- or what's it called? Moldova. Like, uh, Maldives. I've tried looking them up on, um, LinkedIn 'cause I went, I did a l- a ton of research on, about this. I specifically, I did a lot of research on the VPN review websites. So there was one called- ... compare tech that was doing 14 million in revenue, 13 million in profit. Like, I saw their financials and they sold-

   8. SPSpeaker18:10

      Yeah

   9. SPSam Parr18:10

      ... to a VPN company. And I was like, "These VPN companies are crazy." Uh, but I looked all up... I looked up the employees on LinkedIn and, like, you can't find their employees on LinkedIn even though they're, uh, companies that are doing $300, $400 million a year in revenue.

   10. SPSpeaker18:24

       Yep, yeah. Yeah. Yeah, it's a very, very odd space, and basically, like, there's no, there's no big, like, venture winner. There's no like... Oh, Air- Airbnb, we all know the CEO. He's taking the company public. You know, there's no, like, there's no, like, f- front-facing company that's like, "Oh, this one's winning and gonna run away with it." It's more like there's a bunch of them. They all print cash, and there's not really gonna be one winner because there's no network effect. Again, it's, uh, it's, it doesn't have a big moat. The moat is marketing, and that's why they all spend on marketing, and that's how they differentiate-

   11. SPSam Parr18:54

       Wow

   12. SPSpeaker18:54

       ... is just you check all the boxes.

   13. SPSam Parr18:56

       How big are they?

   14. SPSpeaker18:57

       E- easily, easily in the billions, um, for, for, for the aggregate industry. And like you said, yeah, yeah, there's certain that are doing, there's certain VPNs that are doing hundreds of millions of dollars of sales. And so the name of the game is just check all the boxes so that no, no VPN reviewer who's independent can, like, take you down and be like, "There's a fatal flaw, and do not use this VPN because I know for a fact that it doesn't do the right thing." But once you've actually implemented all the features where, yes, we d- we check all these boxes, then it's just a marketing game, and that's why you see them advertising.

   15. SPSam Parr19:27

       Is it just a commodity? Like, with, with the... I, I don't know much about the VPN tech. Like, is it, I, I, uh... Is it, uh, terribly complicated?

   16. SPSpeaker19:34

       It, it is complicated programming-wise. Like, it's cr- it's, it's somewhat complicated to write the code, I guess, but it's not complicated from, like, understanding the features that the customer wants. You're not trying to create some sort of-

   17. SPShaan Puri19:47

       And y- you called it Beast VPN. So what's your business idea here?

   18. SPSpeaker19:52

       I, yeah, I called it Beast VPN. [laughs] I call it Beast VPN because obviously MrBeast is the biggest creator, and he is an interesting place where he has an international audience. He has a, an audience that's... It's just, it's just everyone. His audience is everyone, and so what's a product that you can sell all everywhere across the world that's very high margin, low churn? VPN. And that's why VPNs are advertising all over YouTube, is because it doesn't matter if the ad is served to someone in Japan or India or Europe. Like, the VPN's available there.

   19. SPShaan Puri20:28

       So I give this idea a nine out of 10. Uh-

   20. SPSpeaker20:31

       Nice. [laughs]

   21. SPShaan Puri20:32

       What I like about this idea-

   22. SPSpeaker20:33

       Let's go

   23. SPShaan Puri20:33

       ... is exactly what you said. It takes the weakness of creator businesses, which is you get a bunch of low-value kind of, uh, subscribers, might be, like, you know, some... The value of a random subscriber in India or a rand- random subscriber in Croatia, it's, like, hard to get ad money for that type of viewer. But this product is actually even better for international people than it is for in the US, so I think that's one r- big strength. And then obviously recurring revenue, uh, digital good or recurring revenue software is obviously amazing. I only give it a nine instead of a 10 just because it's the first idea and I, I'm not that easy, so I gotta, I gotta-

   24. SPSpeaker21:07

       [laughs]

   25. SPShaan Puri21:07

       ... dock you one point just on that alone.

   26. SPSpeaker21:10

       Yeah. Also, to be fair, uh, it might make more sense for, like, a Linus Tech Tips and an MKBHD to do this because they're more of, like, tech people.

   27. SPShaan Puri21:18

       W- we were gonna do this at Milk Road, actually.

   28. SPSpeaker21:21

       You were.

   29. SPShaan Puri21:21

       When we built Milk Road-

   30. SPSpeaker21:22

       Oh, wow
5. 23:20 – 28:45

   Business Idea 2: Ammunition Rollup

   1. SPSpeaker23:20

      VPN, though.

   2. SPShaan Puri23:20

      [laughs]

   3. SPSpeaker23:20

      I like VPNs.

   4. SPShaan Puri23:21

      All right, what you got? Second idea.

   5. SPSpeaker23:23

      Yeah, so, uh, uh, the... Obviously Americans love guns. You're an American, you own some guns. Uh, that's not changing. We've seen through, you know, the past few decades that, like, like, real, like, restrictions on guns are not coming. And so the business is probably pretty durable. We've seen that the, the stocks of munition companies are doing fine over the last decades. Um, but the price is increasing. A lot of that's just due to supply chains, but there might be some more structural issues. Also just more people are hunting, more people are, are buying guns and buying ammunition, and obviously shooting is just a fun hobby. So the, the, it, over the last three years, the price of shotgun shells went from $10 to $16. Pretty big increase. And there's this massive shortage. So the, the idea here is basically, like, maybe you need a new Um, maybe we need to bring some, uh, some efficiency to the ammunition supply chain. And I think it's an interesting idea. I don't actually know enough about how to run an ammunition depot or ammunition factory. But what I do know is that the hottest trend right now in business is, like, roll-ups or search funds, and every guy who graduates from HBS is like, "I'm gonna go roll up laundromats," or, "I'm gonna go roll up-

   6. SPShaan Puri24:38

      Dentists

   7. SPSpeaker24:38

      ... dentists." It's like everyone has an idea for these things, and they're all very commodity. They're not very contrarian. And so there's probably not a lot of alpha there. But it's like the guy- the people that are coming out of HBS are probably not saying, "I'm gonna go roll up weapons manufacturers."

   8. SPShaan Puri24:55

      [laughs]

   9. SPSpeaker24:55

      And obviously, like, Anduril is crushing it in the venture side, but they're doing, like, i- insane software, hardware, building drones, building, like, these really advanced AI-powered weapons systems. This is not that. You do this company. You buy a bunch of, you know, "All we do is make shotgun shells." You buy three of them. You move the employees around. You kind of optimize things a little bit. It's just, like, a very boring li- like, you know, private equity style roll-up. And then maybe it accrues power over time because obviously it is a massive industry. But you're not coming in and trying to reinvent the wheel. You're not being like, "We're gonna actually 3D print the shell," or something. No, it's just, like, good operations. Yeah.

   10. SPSam Parr25:35

       There's a lot of gun YouTubers. You know, we could-

   11. SPSpeaker25:37

       Yeah

   12. SPSam Parr25:37

       ... we could mix that.

   13. SPSpeaker25:38

       Oh, yeah, yeah. We could get them in. [laughs]

   14. SPSam Parr25:39

       Do you live in California?

   15. SPSpeaker25:41

       I do. I do.

   16. SPSam Parr25:42

       Are you guys even... So I used to live in California. I live in Texas now.

   17. SPSpeaker25:44

       [laughs]

   18. SPSam Parr25:44

       I- I own-

   19. SPSpeaker25:45

       Yeah

   20. SPSam Parr25:46

       ... guns because I have a ranch, and it's fun for shooting.

   21. SPSpeaker25:48

       Yeah, yeah.

   22. SPSam Parr25:48

       Are you guys even allowed-

   23. SPSpeaker25:49

       Yeah

   24. SPSam Parr25:49

       ... to own guns in California?

   25. SPSpeaker25:50

       Yes, we're allowed to own guns. Yeah. [laughs]

   26. SPSam Parr25:52

       What... No, like, what's the rule?

   27. SPSpeaker25:54

       Uh, no, no. I mean, you can... Th- there's a whole bunch of restrictions on, like, rifles, like, certain capacity magazines. But the... I think most recently, like, it's pretty easy to get a concealed carry permit in San Francisco. It's kind of a narrative violation.

   28. SPSam Parr26:06

       Wait, what? I- I thought for years that wasn't possible.

   29. SPSpeaker26:09

       Yeah, most people think it's, like, unthinkable. But in fact, it, it, it is becoming easier, which is kind of crazy. Um, but yeah. I mean, obviously California's not, like, a dream state for, for, you know, if you're a gun fan.

   30. SPSam Parr26:21

       [laughs]
6. 28:45 – 32:20

   How often does Sam think of the Roman Empire?

   1. SPSam Parr28:45

      Like, it would be a... It's very... I- I- it's just an easier decision.

   2. SPShaan Puri28:48

      Sam, I got, I got a question for you. There's a thing going viral on TikTok right now that's, uh, g- girlfriends asking their boyfriends or g- you know, wives asking their husbands something. I'll be the wife here. I'm gonna ask you a question, uh, that they're asking. Hey, when's the last time, or how o- no, how often do you think about the Roman Empire? Anything to do with the Roman Empire?

   3. SPSam Parr29:07

      Oh, all the time. A lot. [laughs]

   4. SPShaan Puri29:10

      [laughs] Like, well, like, uh, why?

   5. SPSam Parr29:12

      [laughs]

   6. SPShaan Puri29:13

      Under what circumstances would you need to think about that?

   7. SPSam Parr29:16

      Just, like, uh, like, gladiators and shit just, like, battling to the death in front of everyone.

   8. SPShaan Puri29:23

      When's the last time you thought about something like that? Like, this week?

   9. SPSam Parr29:26

      Last night.

   10. SPSpeaker29:27

       I mean, the, the, the funny thing here is that, like, the, the meme immediately before that was, like, the in the arena meme.

   11. SPShaan Puri29:34

       Yeah.

   12. SPSpeaker29:34

       And everyone in tech was posting literal, like, Roman Empire GIFs-

   13. SPShaan Puri29:39

       That's true. That's true

   14. SPSpeaker29:40

       ... because everyone in tech is, like, obsessed with the arena. And I know that they're two separate communities. Like, that's not why the meme popped up. But it's like-

   15. SPShaan Puri29:45

       Yeah, it's so funny to see all these women are like They're like, they a- they see somebody ask the question, the guy answers some exact-

   16. SPSpeaker29:52

       Yeah

   17. SPShaan Puri29:52

       ... almost verbatim what Sam just said.

   18. SPSpeaker29:54

       Always, always.

   19. SPShaan Puri29:54

       Like-

   20. SPSpeaker29:54

       It's like I'm thinking about it right now

   21. SPShaan Puri29:55

       ... all the time.

   22. SPSam Parr29:56

       [laughs]

   23. SPShaan Puri29:56

       Yeah, like what do you mean? Of course. And then-

   24. SPSpeaker29:58

       Yeah, my wife has a video of that where sh- I didn't know about the meme and she takes out her phone, takes... videos me and is like, "Uh-

   25. SPShaan Puri30:03

       She asks you this?

   26. SPSpeaker30:03

       ... how often do you think about the Roman Empire?" Yeah, and I was like, "I'm thinking about it right now. Why? How'd you know?"

   27. SPSam Parr30:07

       [laughs]

   28. SPShaan Puri30:08

       And then all the comments are like, "You know, that make... You know, that's crazy." And then they come back, reply like, "I just asked. He said last week. He said he thinks about it twice a week." [laughs] Like-

   29. SPSpeaker30:17

       Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah

   30. SPShaan Puri30:17

       ... and they're like minds are being blown. They're like, "I can't fathom why this man, who doesn't take out the trash on time, who forgot to pick up our daughter from preschool, why he is thinking about the Roman Empire twice a week." [laughs]
7. 32:20 – 34:40

   Thoughts on Keith Rabois

   1. SPShaan Puri32:20

      um, so Sam is basically like clearly just like surging on testosterone. You, uh, are EIR at Founders Fund, which is... I remember at one point when they were talking about PayPal, they said, uh, oh, you know, Max Levchin interviewed some engineer back in the early days of PayPal, and then he was like, "No, no, can't hire this guy." It's like, what? He passed everyone else's test. He's like, "He plays basketball. I don't know any great programmer who goes and plays basketball three times a week. [laughs] That's not a thing." And so they were like very anti-jock. Um, do you get to hang out with the Founders Fund people a lot? Like, do you hang out in person at all? And what's that like? 'Cause seems like a room full of very interesting, very different people.

   2. SPSpeaker32:57

      Yeah, it is. It's, uh, it's oddly, they've done a great job of not creating a monoculture in a very small organization. So yeah, there are definitely like complete jocks that... I mean, obviously, we know Keith Rabois that berries like five times a day.

   3. SPSam Parr33:10

      Yeah. I don't know if I would call Keith Rabois a jock.

   4. SPSpeaker33:13

      Yeah.

   5. SPSam Parr33:13

      Uh, but, uh, like why, why-

   6. SPSpeaker33:15

      He's like a workout nut. He's a fitness nut, for sure.

   7. SPShaan Puri33:17

      Yeah, but berries. [laughs]

   8. SPSam Parr33:20

      Yeah, he's, he's out trying to be the best at sports. You know, he's trying to be the best at exercising. Why is that guy-

   9. SPSpeaker33:25

      Okay, okay

   10. SPSam Parr33:26

       ... why... No, I'm just joking. But why is that guy s- why is Keith Rabois such a dickhead on Twitter?

   11. SPShaan Puri33:31

       [laughs]

   12. SPSam Parr33:31

       Like, why does he behave that way? He's, he's like needlessly rude.

   13. SPSpeaker33:35

       I think a lot of it is just like holding the line on like, uh, like when he sees something that's like not true, he doesn't want it to spread, and so he just like shuts it down like really aggressively.

   14. SPSam Parr33:45

       Yeah, he's like put it... He's like f- he's put his flag in some silly things, like Miami. So it's like if Miami doesn't work, it, it's like gonna hurt him. And it's like, you know, it doesn't have to. You know, you, you, you could love it, and also it's not the best.

   15. SPSpeaker33:59

       A lot of these things are, you know, I think learned behaviors. I think everyone in tech is somewhat like, like just injured from the past like-

   16. SPSam Parr34:09

       For sure

   17. SPSpeaker34:09

       ... decade-

   18. SPSam Parr34:10

       It's very obvious

   19. SPSpeaker34:10

       ... of just getting like just beat down for every little thing. And so a lot of people have put up walls. And I think that it's ti- I agree with you. I think it's time to kind of take down the walls, be a little bit less defensive generally. But I understand where all these behaviors are coming from.

   20. SPSam Parr34:29

       What's Sean Parker up to? We haven't heard about that guy in years. In a positive way.

   21. SPSpeaker34:32

       Yeah, we gotta get him back on Twitter, because if you... Or X because if you talk to anyone who knows him, they will just say that he was the greatest poster of all time.

8. 34:40 – 36:15

   Best Twitter follows

   1. SPShaan Puri34:40

      [laughs] Who's the best on Twitter now?

   2. SPSpeaker34:43

      I mean, probably like, uh, R- Rahul Ligma, Daniel Johnson.

   3. SPShaan Puri34:47

      [laughs]

   4. SPSpeaker34:47

      Like those type of guys, right? Like, uh, do you guys remember that publicity stunt-

   5. SPShaan Puri34:52

      Yeah. Amazing, yeah

   6. SPSpeaker34:52

      ... or that stunt that they did?

   7. SPShaan Puri34:53

      [laughs]

   8. SPSpeaker34:53

      They fooled CNBC into reporting that they were-

   9. SPSam Parr34:57

      [laughs]

   10. SPSpeaker34:57

       ... Twitter employees that were fired. It was very... Like, that, that's just like, you know.

   11. SPShaan Puri35:02

       Those guys, um, they're like doing a normal startup. They're like building some dev tool.

   12. SPSpeaker35:06

       Oh, yeah, yeah. Yeah, no, they're not like comedians.

   13. SPShaan Puri35:08

       They should have just gone all in on like, "Oh, shit, we need to just create like this sort of like, um, some version of Punk'd or like, uh, you know, s- something for the tech industry." They should have just gone all in as personalities. I would have dropped the startup and be like, "Six months sabbatical on the startup. I'm just gonna see what happens if I fully troll, and like maybe I could be the thing that the community needs."

   14. SPSam Parr35:29

       Dude, Rahul Ligma still makes me like spit water out my nose when I hear that. [laughs]

   15. SPSpeaker35:33

       It's, it's so funny. It's so funny. Um, yeah, I don't know. I mean, how would you monetize that if they... Would you just be doing stand-up sets? It feels like-

   16. SPShaan Puri35:40

       I think he would get silent donations from billionaires. I've seen that guy-

   17. SPSpeaker35:44

       Oh, yeah, maybe. [laughs]

   18. SPShaan Puri35:44

       ... and he only hangs out with-

   19. SPSpeaker35:46

       Yeah

   20. SPShaan Puri35:46

       ... successful billionaires when I've seen him in person. Like, 'cause everybody who was on- Big in tech, loved that troll. Elon loved it. Uh, you know, like, the, the, all them guys are like, "Oh my God, it's the best, it's the best." I feel like they could have a Patreon of billionaires only that just fund them to, like, do statement art. Uh, you know, like, comedic statement art against the media, against the local politicians, against whatever. That's what I would've done if I was them.

   21. SPSpeaker36:10

       That's, maybe that's not a bad idea. But I don't know. I, I, like, it seems like they're pretty legit at what they're doing.

9. 36:15 – 48:15

   Debate: Lifestyle businesses vs. VC-backed

   1. SPSpeaker36:15

      [laughs] They're, like, actually good programmers.

   2. SPShaan Puri36:16

      [laughs] [upbeat music] I can't find this client info.

   3. SPSpeaker36:20

      Have you heard of HubSpot? HubSpot is a CRM platform, so it shares its data across every application. Every team can stay aligned. No out-of-sync spreadsheets or dueling databases. HubSpot, grow better.

   4. SPSam Parr36:34

      You have, um, a thing on this document that I wanna fight you about.

   5. SPSpeaker36:38

      Yeah. Yeah, yeah, I knew this. I was getting you good. [laughs]

   6. SPSam Parr36:40

      [laughs] The, here's the... [laughs] So John sent us this document. He says, "Unique philosophies. Lifestyle businesses are worthless."

   7. SPShaan Puri36:49

      [laughs]

   8. SPSam Parr36:50

      What do you... [laughs]

   9. SPShaan Puri36:51

      Make your case.

   10. SPSam Parr36:52

       Yeah. [laughs]

   11. SPShaan Puri36:52

       Before we make you walk the plank.

   12. SPSpeaker36:54

       Yeah, exactly. [laughs]

   13. SPSam Parr36:56

       Yeah. [laughs]

   14. SPSpeaker36:57

       Uh, no, no, I, I, this is mostly just, like, let's have a fun debate 'cause I'm, like, you know, working at a venture capital firm. And I can kind of represent the VC crew, and you guys are, like, the kings of, like, the lifestyle business, so.

   15. SPSam Parr37:09

       We aren't the kings of that, by the way.

   16. SPShaan Puri37:11

       I wanna be the king of it, actually. I, I actually will accept that compliment.

   17. SPSam Parr37:15

       I, I don't mind being the king of it. What I'm saying is-

   18. SPSpeaker37:16

       Yeah, yeah

   19. SPSam Parr37:16

       ... I think that we are one of the very few kind of content creators-

   20. SPSpeaker37:21

       You, you pay p- proper respect to it.

   21. SPSam Parr37:22

       Yeah. I, what I'm saying is we, we-

   22. SPSpeaker37:24

       Yeah

   23. SPSam Parr37:24

       ... we, we, we do both. We think both are cool. That, that's, I, the- there's very few people, I think, that are in the middle, and I think we are in the middle.

   24. SPSpeaker37:31

       Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah, yeah, that's fair. That's fair. Um, and so yeah, ba- basically, the, I- I think the point is just that, uh, lifestyle businesses are great.

   25. SPSam Parr37:40

       Define that.

   26. SPSpeaker37:41

       So I would say, uh, I, I would say, like, non-venture backed, non-Blitzscaling, non-hyperscaling, non-monopoly, something without a crazy moat where it's just, like, you go and work at it. And maybe it gets really big. And maybe you wind up being a billionaire. But you didn't, you didn't, like, do this growth at all costs insane thing.

   27. SPSam Parr37:59

       And what's hypergrowth? Uh, two or three times a year?

   28. SPSpeaker38:03

       I mean, sometimes 10 times a year, [laughs] right? Um, it depends on the scale. At the early stages, it goes really, really fast. But I, I'm specifically thinking of, like, Facebook, right? I'm specifically thinking of the power law outcomes in venture. And my, my point is that basically only about 1% of companies that get started raise venture capital. But about 99% of the market cap in the public markets, they took venture. And so venture has this very, like, as- like, like, disproportional outcome. And I believe that, that the bigger the company, the bigger the impact on the world. And so if you wanna have a really, really big impact, you should actually be trying to raise money, grow very f- v- grow very quickly. Like, you're not going to build $100 billion company compounding at 2% a year, 5% a year over your lifetime. It just won't happen.

   29. SPSam Parr38:53

       All right. Let me play the other side of that.

   30. SPSpeaker38:54

       Please.
10. 48:15 – 51:00

    Who John’s voting for

    1. SPShaan Puri48:15

       Yes.

    2. SPSam Parr48:15

       Oh, yeah.

    3. SPSpeaker48:15

       Cool.

    4. SPSam Parr48:16

       That, that's like a, that's a recurring theme is Shaan's personal trainer.

    5. SPSpeaker48:19

       Yeah.

    6. SPSam Parr48:19

       John, you, uh-

    7. SPSpeaker48:20

       Yeah

    8. SPSam Parr48:20

       ... you're cool because you, um, I think you're like us, uh, but maybe even more extreme in the tech world in that you have your foot in the startup world and you're hanging out with-

    9. SPSpeaker48:28

       Yep

    10. SPSam Parr48:28

        ... these bigwigs. But you're also can just joke around and shoot the shit and like you're-

    11. SPSpeaker48:31

        Yeah, yeah, yeah

    12. SPSam Parr48:31

        ... pretty self-aware. Who, uh, what do you align with... Who do you align with politically?

    13. SPSpeaker48:37

        Oh, uh, yeah. I, I really like this guy Mark Hurd, who's a Republican from Texas. Uh, he was, uh, he's a smaller candidate so he's not polling super well. But he worked for the CIA and he also is on the board of Palantir, and he would be the first computer scientist president. And I think that that would just be very, very interesting to see someone with a CS background. Obviously, I love programmers and I, I, I think that they think about the world in very interesting ways. And we've had this very long tr- long arc of, you know, lawyer, lawyer, businessman, lawyer, lawyer, lawyer, [laughs] right? Like that's the story. And he's like a younger guy so, uh, I'm, I'm proud to endorse him.

    14. SPSam Parr49:21

        Are you more Republican than Democrat or do you vote both?

    15. SPSpeaker49:25

        It ju- yeah, yeah, I vote both. It just kinda depends on who is, who, who can have like the highest impact on mostly technology and the business community. I think that those are kind of the, the, the, the things that we need to be thinking about. I do think there's the interesting, um, as I look back on Trump, I didn't vote for him, didn't support him, voted against him twice. But, um, but I think that there's this weird s- situation where like the problems that Trump brought were obviously really bad. I think he really like divided the country and just created a lot of chaos, and I think that was like probably net negative for the United States. But he did kind of get China right, and he started this like, he got people waking up about the fact that we are in a great power competition again. And so you could see a world where the China situation dissipates and things get better. And that would be phenomenal for the world and that's what I hope happens. And in that case, Trump will be remembered as like an idiot basically. [laughs] But the opposite could also happen where the China situation gets hotter and then people look back to Trump as like a, like a genius who foresaw this all and like took the first steps to like m- make things safe. And so I think the, what's interesting is that the, the way we remember presidents is often not by what they actually did but by how their decisions look in hindsight. And it comes back to the, you know, don't judge a venture investment until it's 20 years later or 10 years later. It's the same thing. It's like, like maybe we shouldn't judge our presidents until we, you know, with the full history of time.

    16. SPShaan Puri50:58

        You had said something earlier

11. 51:00 – 53:30

    Why AI wrappers are great businesses

    1. SPShaan Puri51:00

       about like you were working on natural language generation in 2013.

    2. SPSpeaker51:04

       Yeah.

    3. SPShaan Puri51:04

       Um, now these large language model, LLMs, are all the rage. And you had an idea around this that I liked because it was very different than how most people, most investors talk about this. So you had said-

    4. SPSpeaker51:15

       Yeah

    5. SPShaan Puri51:15

       ... something like everybody is, um, knocking certain AI startups 'cause they're, "Oh, it's just a wrapper on top of GPT. It's just a wrapper on top of what Open AI is doing. It's a, it's a flimsy little thing." You had a different take. What's your take?

    6. SPSpeaker51:28

       Yeah. My, my take is that that might be a reasonable critique for a growth stage venture capitalist to debate with their partners at an investment committee meeting. Uh, that is not necessarily what we should be putting out on Twitter, or X, to the next generation of young builders. And if you are... You know, I, I know a lot of these kids who are 17, 18, 19 and they're hacking and building ChatGPT wrappers and some of them are making a ton of money [laughs] and it's fine.

    7. SPSam Parr52:01

       What's an example?

    8. SPSpeaker52:03

       Yeah. Like, I mean, like an example would be like, um, like just, just narrowing down to something very... There, there are a few people that have done like, uh, like almost like dating coaching kind of like, uh, to help with if you're bad at texting. There was a whole South Park episode about this where-

    9. SPSam Parr52:21

       It was pretty funny

    10. SPSpeaker52:22

        ... it... Yeah, yeah. Like if you're, i- if, if you don't know what to text someone on like a dating app, you can have like, uh, you could go to ChatGPT and say, "Hi, I'm on, uh, Tinder and I, I need to send a re- response to this girl and I'm feeling awkward. Like what should I say?" And it'll give you a recommendation. But these apps have kind of like fine-tuned it to be a little bit more like spicy or, you know, engaging or whatever.

    11. SPShaan Puri52:40

        People will do homework help, they'll do rap lyrics, they'll do whatever, right?

    12. SPSpeaker52:44

        Yeah. And I, I, I don't, I don't know the details about those but a lot of people will be like, "Oh, those aren't appropriate for venture capital therefore like they should not be built." And this is kind of where I'm flip-flopping to my, [laughs] you know, lifestyles of that. It's like, no, actually these are phenomenal because we need these, these like people to get experience building. And I think maybe I think about it even less from the economic side and more from just the experiential side of like if, if you ever talk to somebody who's like they were able to, you know, run some s- small business when they were in high school, that's always a bull signal for entrepreneurship.

    13. SPShaan Puri53:19

        Yeah.

    14. SPSpeaker53:19

        Like they're, it's always like, "Oh, you're... And now you're doing the venture back thing that's gonna make a lot of money?" Like-

    15. SPShaan Puri53:24

        It doesn't matter what the thing was, right?

    16. SPSpeaker53:25

        Right. It's like, "Oh, I was hustling sneakers," or, "Oh, I was like selling, reselling, uh,

12. 53:30 – 57:40

    Business Idea 3: Lensa for ChatGPT

    1. SPSpeaker53:30

       concert tickets." Like my thing was I bought DJ equipment in the United States and then I would export it to Australia.

    2. SPShaan Puri53:36

       [laughs]

    3. SPSpeaker53:36

       And I was just like hustling that stuff in high school. Like everyone has one of these stories. I'm sure you guys have tons that you've told on the pod. Um, but so, so basically with the, with the, uh, we n- I want the Lensa for ChatGPT moment. So Lensa, for those of you who might not remember, was-

    4. SPSam Parr53:53

       I don't know what that is

    5. SPSpeaker53:54

       ... so, so it's this app that you would download and you'd upload, you know, 10 f- selfies of yourself from your camera roll.

    6. SPSam Parr54:01

       Yeah.

    7. SPSpeaker54:01

       And then it would generate- AI images that look like you. So it would be like, it, that looks like Sam's face, but it's on Superman.

    8. SPSam Parr54:10

       Yeah.

    9. SPSpeaker54:10

       Or it's-

    10. SPSam Parr54:10

        It was like, but it was really like a Russian company that wa- that was the rumors that it was a Russian company who-

    11. SPSpeaker54:14

        I don't think that one was. But yeah, I mean, there are some weird, like these apps come from all over. I'm not sure about Lensa. Um, I, I think, I don't, I, I, I just haven't looked into the company, but-

    12. SPShaan Puri54:23

        And it made a bunch of money and it was like number one in the app store for a bit, yeah.

    13. SPSpeaker54:27

        Yeah, it was based on, it was based on Stable Diffusion, which is this open source software package, and DreamBooth, which was this paper that Google put out that then people went and implemented. Like, no one knew what those things meant. No one... Your aunt doesn't know what Stable Diffusion or Lens or DreamBooth is. But she probably downloaded and paid for Lensa Magic Avatars and had that as a profile picture for a little bit. So it was just like this, this fun, viral moment that was really successful, and I think that there's a lot of people who I would hate if they're toying around with ChatGPT and they don't build something that's really fun and cool because they're like, "Oh, well, this won't be like a hyperscaler combining, like generational company." It's like, maybe you just need to go build the fun thing and put it out there and see how it goes.

    14. SPShaan Puri55:11

        What, what would be something you'd build?

    15. SPSpeaker55:12

        So I have an idea about this, which is basically that, um, there's a few things that these, that these, uh, systems are really good at. You know, obviously there's been huge progress in helping software developers program with GitHub Copilot, which is, you know, built by OpenAI under the hood. There's also, you know, just the Google use case. Like, I go to ChatGPT all the time and just ask it questions that I would normally ask Google. Um, people are doing a lot of like AI girlfriend stuff. Like, you know, Shaan, I'm sure your, your next, uh, your next big, uh, OnlyFans investment will have an AI component [laughs] probably.

    16. SPShaan Puri55:46

        [laughs]

    17. SPSpeaker55:46

        But, but I think that the, the, that one of the interesting things that these language models are particularly good at is something called the Barnum effect. Have you guys heard about this?

    18. SPShaan Puri55:55

        No.

    19. SPSpeaker55:56

        So the Barnum effect is this psychological phenomenon where, like I can say a, like something that sounds like it's very specifically tailored to you, but it's actually vague and applies to everyone. So, so an example of this would be, um, "Sam, you have a great need for other people to like and admire you. You have a tendency to be critical of yourself. You have a great deal of unused capacity which you have not turned into your advantage." Like, these things resonate with everyone. They certainly resonate with me. I feel like yep, yep, yep.

    20. SPShaan Puri56:30

        [laughs]

    21. SPSpeaker56:30

        But... And they feel personalized. It's-

    22. SPSam Parr56:32

        It's like astrology.

    23. SPSpeaker56:33

        Yeah, yeah. They use this in astrology. And so what I'm thinking is like someone should take the, you know, ChatGPT, LLMs and make some sort of like viral personality quiz, viral astrology app, something along those lines that-

    24. SPShaan Puri56:46

        Miss Cleo.

    25. SPSpeaker56:47

        Yeah, that ex- that, that exploits this effect that LLMs are really, really good at. And then, and then uses it. It's just like, "Yeah, you, oh yeah, did you get your personality te-" It's like, "Did you get your Lensa magic avatars?" Like, "Yeah, I got them. Like I had to do the in-app payment, it was 5.99." It's like, "Oh, did, well, did you get your custom personality test through this chatbot that's new and going viral?" Like, "Yeah, sure, I did that."

    26. SPShaan Puri57:08

        I think that's a great prediction. I think that's gonna happen, uh, very soon. And this, we'll look back at this clip and be like, "Dude, he called it. John called it-

    27. SPSpeaker57:15

        Yeah

    28. SPShaan Puri57:15

        ... that that was gonna happen."

    29. SPSpeaker57:16

        I love it.

    30. SPShaan Puri57:17

        It has to happen. Uh, somebody said this the other day. They go, um... They showed me, oh no, they showed me a Steve Jobs clip. And Steve Jobs goes, "Once this technology happened, um-"
13. 57:40 – 1:04:05

    Scam artist telemarketing

    1. SPShaan Puri57:40

       happened, and you just didn't know when and you didn't know who, but you definitely knew that they were gonna happen." That's how I feel about this idea.

    2. SPSpeaker57:46

       I love it. I'm glad I, I'm glad I got the thumbs up on all my, all my suggestions.

    3. SPShaan Puri57:51

       Yeah, your ideas were, were actually very, very, uh, very solid.

    4. SPSpeaker57:54

       Entertaining.

    5. SPShaan Puri57:54

       You, you said you did your high school flipping thing. Uh, you also were a, uh, uh, what, what was it called? Like a, a phone, a telemarketer?

    6. SPSpeaker58:01

       I was a telemarketing scam artist.

    7. SPShaan Puri58:02

       [laughs]

    8. SPSpeaker58:03

       Telemarketing scammer.

    9. SPShaan Puri58:03

       Yeah, tell, tell that story. We'll wrap on that. So-

    10. SPSpeaker58:05

        Th- th- this is a phenomenal story.

    11. SPSam Parr58:07

        What are you, like workaholics?

    12. SPSpeaker58:08

        Uh, yeah, yeah, a little bit. I, I use The Office as a reference point because that is the, the default, like, small business in America. Um, you know, they make a thing and then they ship it out. And so the scam worked like this. I found the job on Craigslist. I show up and I'm wearing a suit. [laughs] I'm probably 17 years old or something and I'm like, "I brought a resume. I want this job." And they're like, "Uh, it's not that type of job. Like, you do not [laughs] need to be wearing a suit. Just sit over there. You're gonna call these numbers. Call down the list, and when they pick up, read this script." And the script goes like something like this. I probably still remember it by heart. But, [laughs] um, it was like, uh, when they pick up, you do not ask how they're doing. You do not talk to them. You just say, "Shipping department, please." And you wanna make it sound like you've been disconnected, like I was already talking to the other shipping department. Half the time people are like, "What are you talking about? This is a law firm. We don't have a shipping department." But the other half of the time people are like, "Yeah, we got a shipping department. I'll transfer you down there."

    13. SPShaan Puri59:10

        [laughs]

    14. SPSpeaker59:11

        Like, you must have just gotten disconnected. Then you're down in the shipping department. So imagine Dunder Mifflin from The Office. You know, you just talked to Pam. Pam transferred you down to, I think Darryl is down in the shipping department, right? And now you're talking to the guys down in the shipping department. And, uh, the, the scam was selling two-inch clear tape. So the guy picks up from the shipping department and says, "Shipping department," you know, "John here," uh, or Darryl. And, and then you say, "Hey, you're, you guys are still using the two-inch clear tape, right?" That was the line. So this is the secret. It's like, it's like asking an office do they use eight and a half by 11 inch paper, or like asking, you know, a, a podcaster, like, "Do you still use microphones?" You know? [laughs] It's like, yes, everyone uses two-inch clear tape in a shipping department because it's what you use to just tape boxes.

    15. SPSam Parr59:54

        Yeah, yeah, yeah.

    16. SPSpeaker59:54

        It's the clear tape that you use to pack things. It's packing tape. And so they're obviously gonna say yes, but it sounds like you've already sold to them. You know, "You're still using the two-inch clear tape, right?" We didn't say that- ... we, we sold you. But then, y- then if they say yes, then you say, um, you know, "Hey, I, I just wanna, you know, like thank you, not for being a customer, just thank you. [laughs] I wanna thank you and we're gonna send out, I wanna send out another box of that two-inch clear tape, uh, for you guys. And I'm gonna throw in a Starbucks gift card for you personally. Your name's gonna be on it.

    17. SPSam Parr1:00:27

        [laughs]

    18. SPSpeaker1:00:27

        This one's for you." And I, and, and they're running me through this and I'm like, "How much is the Starbucks gift card for?" I'm like, uh, I, I, I need information. I'm like, I'm s- obsessive about information. And so he's like, "Uh, don't, don't worry about it." And I'm like, "No, but like I need to know because like what if they ask me?" They're like, "They w- th- they'll never ask you." And I was like, "No, but I, I have to know. Like I just, I cannot do this job unless you tell me." And he was finally like, "It's $5." [laughs] I was like, "Wow." So, so they, so they, you know, they do the, the Starbucks gift card thing. They get the guy to say, you know, "Yes, I'd like, you know, I'm still using it. Send it out." And then they send it out with an invoice so you don't need to collect the credit card details over the phone. They send it out with the invoice, and they've priced this clear tape at exactly the level that they think most accounting poin- uh, accounting departments will just stamp it. So it was $500 for a box of clear tape, and it cost them $5 to produce this tape. [laughs]

    19. SPSam Parr1:01:20

        How much money did the company make?

    20. SPSpeaker1:01:22

        Millions. I mean, the guys were like driving around in sports cars. Like, and I ran the numbers, and it was like, you know, while I was there... I o- I only worked there for one day and then like I quit because I was like, "This is a scam." I figured it out like almost immediately. But a lot of people stuck around and like, you know... But even then, I think I s- I think I sold $1,000 of clear tape. [laughs]

    21. SPShaan Puri1:01:38

        And they're just trying to get the one sale.

    22. SPSpeaker1:01:40

        And the conversion rate is insane. Yeah, so, so they send out, I talked to the guys in our shipping department of the scam [laughs] and-

    23. SPShaan Puri1:01:47

        [laughs]

    24. SPSpeaker1:01:47

        ... and, and I... F- first off, hilarious, the guys don't use their own clear tape because it just falls apart.

    25. SPShaan Puri1:01:53

        [laughs]

    26. SPSpeaker1:01:53

        It just disintegrates. Um, it's like the worst product. Uh, they buy the stuff that gets thrown away in China basically. Like, like if, uh, if they have manufacturing defects, that's what they buy for like 10 cents and then they sell that for $500-

    27. SPShaan Puri1:02:05

        Wow

    28. SPSpeaker1:02:05

        ... which is already an order of magnitude more than you could just get from Staples.

    29. SPSam Parr1:02:09

        Are they, are they still doing this scam?

    30. SPSpeaker1:02:11

        I don't know. I, I don't think so. They, they had like an F from the Better Business Bureau and then like-
14. 1:04:05 – 1:06:24

    Closing thoughts

    1. SPSpeaker1:04:05

       now? Hopefully you got like a better job." He's like, "Yeah, I'm selling drugs at this concert." [laughs] I was like, "What?"

    2. SPSam Parr1:04:10

       [laughs]

    3. SPShaan Puri1:04:12

       [laughs]

    4. SPSpeaker1:04:14

       And he just like-

    5. SPShaan Puri1:04:15

       Right on

    6. SPSpeaker1:04:15

       ... I've never heard anyone like so proudly tell me that they're like a drug dealer. But I was like, "Okay," like, you know.

    7. SPShaan Puri1:04:20

       Step up.

    8. SPSpeaker1:04:20

       I'm not into that, but I have some friends that are.

    9. SPSam Parr1:04:22

       [laughs]

    10. SPSpeaker1:04:22

        Like we could make a deal.

    11. SPShaan Puri1:04:24

        That's amazing. You, uh, tell people what your YouTube channel is and also tell us why are you doing YouTube? You could be going out there building another business, but you're like us. You're creating content. So tell people what the channel is and why you do it.

    12. SPSpeaker1:04:36

        Yeah, I mean, basically just bored during the pandemic, had always been... I mean, our first viral success at Soylent was, you know, content, and content's super important for launching companies. And I'm an entrepreneur, so having a voice is very important in that equation. Um, my YouTube channel, you can find it, just John Coogan, search there. I also have a podcast now, powerlaw.fm, Power Law hosted by John Coogan. Um, not an interview show. It's just kinda deep dives on these power law people and companies, these really like-

    13. SPSam Parr1:05:01

        That's a good name

    14. SPSpeaker1:05:02

        ... outset titles.

    15. SPSam Parr1:05:02

        And that's a good title. That's a good idea.

    16. SPSpeaker1:05:04

        Thanks, man. Yeah.

    17. SPSam Parr1:05:05

        That's a good one.

    18. SPSpeaker1:05:05

        So it's, it's interesting. It's, uh, yeah, it's a lot of fun. I just, I really like it and, um, yeah, check it out and I, I... The biggest problem with it is that I don't have a lot of focus. I'll talk about geopolitics. My last video was on Doug Gemero, [laughs] like breaking down his business. Like I just, I'm all over the place, but, uh, but it's so much fun and like there's clearly value in what we do. Like people enjoy it, it makes them happy, and you meet interesting people. We got to have a great conversation because of it, you know?

    19. SPSam Parr1:05:32

        We appreciate you coming on. This has been really fun. You're, uh, you're cool, man. We, we, uh, this has been awesome. We appreciate it. Hey, we, and we don't have a lot of focus either. Look, we went from scams to who you gonna vote for-

    20. SPSpeaker1:05:43

        Yeah

    21. SPSam Parr1:05:43

        ... to guns, so.

    22. SPSpeaker1:05:44

        It's the dream.

    23. SPSam Parr1:05:44

        You know?

    24. SPSpeaker1:05:45

        And this is, I, I, this is like you, your, your audience won't be perfectly optimized, like, "Oh, we're like the best ever," but in terms of the lifestyle, like we all agree, like this is the way to run the content machine. Don't-

    25. SPShaan Puri1:05:58

        Yeah

    26. SPSpeaker1:05:58

        ... don't go too crazy with it.

    27. SPShaan Puri1:06:00

        Exactly.

    28. SPSam Parr1:06:00

        Well, thank you. We appreciate it. And, uh, thanks for coming on, and that's the pod. [upbeat music]

Episode duration: 1:06:24