How He Turned His Side Hustle Into A $100M Business

1. 0:00 – 0:30

   Intro

   1. NKNoah Kagan0:00

      No, it just started as a side hustle. Like, I was in a basement in San Francisco that was like, "Yo, I, I have a theory about what I think will be big, and I wanna make 3,000 bucks a month." Never was it like, "I wanna make millions of dollars," or, "I wanna have a bunch of people," or I ha- wanna have a bunch of customers. [upbeat music] How are you, Sam?

   2. SPSam Parr0:26

      Yeah.

   3. NKNoah Kagan0:26

      How are you today?

   4. SPSam Parr0:27

      I'm good. What are you doing?

2. 0:30 – 11:30

   Noah's schedule and what he's working on now

   1. NKNoah Kagan0:30

      Well, I just got back from Albuquerque. I was hanging out with my family. [laughs] And then, uh, I just got home, and then just, like, back-to-back meetings before we go to the Trail of Lights tonight in Austin.

   2. SPSam Parr0:41

      I know. I... Neville and Neil, I've heard all about you guys are gonna have some exciting times tonight. Did, um, do... Wait, you, you weren't working today, like a normal schedule?

   3. NKNoah Kagan0:51

      Uh, I actually work really best in airplanes. So I, I got up, worked in the airplane, landed, then just been kind of back-to-back meetings now until 6:30.

   4. SPSam Parr1:00

      Do you enjoy having a normal schedule now?

   5. NKNoah Kagan1:02

      [sighs] Oof. It, um... I had some trauma. You know, by the way, like, Silicon Valley tech worker trauma is like, "My boss didn't give me a 20% raise, it was a 10% raise, and I am traumatized." Like, when I worked at Intel, all I did was meetings, and it was like the... And I was like, "This is the worst thing ever." And now I'm, I'm in... All I do is meetings. [laughs]

   6. SPSam Parr1:28

      Well-

   7. NKNoah Kagan1:28

      But then, you know, I will s- [laughs]

   8. SPSam Parr1:30

      Yeah.

   9. NKNoah Kagan1:30

      I will say, though, today I was in some meetings and I was interacting, and I was like, "Man, I love you people." There's some meetings where they suck and you have to figure out how to get rid of them or change the meeting, and there's some where it's like, "Wow, we're business forward." Like, there's things that are happening that are, are making shit happen in the business.

   10. SPSam Parr1:43

       So Noah, you... Noah Kagan's here. S- founder of this company called AppSumo, which we'll talk about in a second. But you basically, like, you, you kinda, I don't know, do you say you stepped away? You weren't, like, actively running the company day-to-day for, like, a couple years. Now you're the CEO again. I, so I was active for a long time, now I'm not active. It's amazing. It's the best. I don't know, like, I don't think I have it in me to, at least not right now, to go back and do that. Do you think that you have it in you?

   11. NKNoah Kagan2:14

       Uh, it's hard. It's, [laughs] it's... I mean, I was not working... Oh, man, this sounds such, like, an ass stuff. But, like, I wasn't really working. I was doing podcasts, which isn't really working. And, um, I was making a lot of money, and now I'm working. I actually think I'll make the least I've made this year in the past six-

   12. SPSam Parr2:33

       Wait, what's... What does that mean, you're making a lot of money? From what?

   13. NKNoah Kagan2:36

       Well, Eamon, so we hired this guy to run AppSumo.com. He was running it, and I was like, "Oh, well, let me make YouTube videos, and I'll do podcasts, and I'll, like, build SendFox and experimental stuff." And then I would get paid. And then Eamon wanted to step out and, uh, to be an advisor, and I stepped in, and now I'm having to do all his work. I will say... And then, yeah, I think I'll make less money this year. Two things with that. One, sometimes when you criticize another, 'cause I criticized Eamon a lot. Um, but it was productive.

   14. SPSam Parr3:03

       Well, just like, just like, "You could be better. You could be better, Eamon. Why are you doing-"

   15. NKNoah Kagan3:05

       Yeah, like Jewish, Jewish p-

   16. SPSam Parr3:06

       "... why are you doing this?" Yeah.

   17. NKNoah Kagan3:07

       Yeah, Jewish mother. Like, "Noah, why not... Your, your, your cousin, he, uh..."

   18. SPSam Parr3:12

       [laughs]

   19. NKNoah Kagan3:13

       So, [laughs] "You could've been like your brother. He's a doctor."

   20. SPSam Parr3:18

       [laughs]

   21. NKNoah Kagan3:18

       And, uh, [laughs] um, one, under, being in his shoes definitely makes me, uh, respect him so much more, but I... Just a lot, just a lot. Like, he's a very impressive guy. Also, he had to deal with me. But I'd say the second thing is that, um, the work now is harder. It's hard, but it's much more rewarding. And so I even, I was even writing that down in my diary this morning. I said, "Dear diary, hard work is rewarding."

   22. SPSam Parr3:44

       Noah, you have the weirdest... So, like, you talk about having a diary.

   23. NKNoah Kagan3:48

       [laughs]

   24. SPSam Parr3:48

       You always talk about going to therapy, which is no big deal.

   25. NKNoah Kagan3:51

       [laughs]

   26. SPSam Parr3:51

       These, none of these, these, all these things are great, but you act like a tough guy sometimes, and then you talk about, like, uh, how you gotta complain to your diary. You kinda shock me.

   27. NKNoah Kagan4:00

       You know, I think, you know... I think of myself like a Chinese dish. I'm like sweet and sour pork. You know, like, you're not really supposed to have pork as a Jew, and then sometimes it's sweet, and then sometimes you're, like, kinda sour. It's just like, it's a, it's a mixed bag. It's a variety. It's, uh, entertaining.

   28. SPSam Parr4:16

       You're, uh, you... Since I, I've known you now for I think, like, eight or nine years, and you've al-

   29. NKNoah Kagan4:21

       [laughs]

   30. SPSam Parr4:21

       You're, you're, you're cagey with numbers, so I don't wanna push you if you don't wanna be pushed. Can you talk about how big you guys are now, given... I mean, in your YouTube video, I think you said 100 million in revenue.
3. 11:30 – 22:15

   Why Noah doesn't think 10 years ahead

   1. NKNoah Kagan11:30

      100 million, 200, 20 million, whatever, 150, and you spend on that and you don't make it, then yeah, you get kinda fucked too.

   2. SPSam Parr11:38

      I think that you and I are similar in that, like, when, when I see the... So I'll, like, say, "Yeah, I wanna, I think we can hit 100 million in revenue." And then they say, "All right, well, then we have to spend $80M." And I look at it and I'm like, "Oh my God, what the hell? What is this $50,000 expense? What is this $10,000 expense? Are you crazy? We can't do this. This is ridiculous." And I get fearful. I think that's the cool thing about having a guy like Amon, where he's a little bit less attached. Uh, y- the, this company called NerdWallet. You know NerdWallet?

   3. NKNoah Kagan12:05

      Yeah.

   4. SPSam Parr12:06

      He, Tim Chen, uh, gave me a little bit of money to start The Hustle, and it was his idea t- to give me money. He was like, "Hey, can I give you some money to start this?" And, uh, I took it. And they just went public at, like, 3 or 4 billion in valuation. And I went to him one day, I go, "Tim, we're spending $80,000 a month in expenses. We're making more than that, but, like, that's crazy." He goes, "Man, it's just an Excel number. Like, it's just an e- it's just- it's a spreadsheet. You... It has an input and an output. That's all you should care about. You shouldn't actually care that it's $80,000 a month." And I still find myself freaking out over that stuff. And so for you, let's say, I do- I don't know, I imagine your payroll is, like, 10, 40, $50 million a year or something like that. Or your payroll and, and marketing expenses. I would... I flip out when I think about that, because that's all basically your money. Whereas with Amon or someone else, you could be l- you could be more detached.

   5. NKNoah Kagan12:55

      Yeah. I mean, Amon always cared, and Amon ha- I have a lot of respect and admiration for him, and he's still very involved. I, I think the way that I've tried to approach it generally is two pieces. Number one, when does the red flag need to be f- triggered? So every week we have a Monday KPI sheet that they update our gross margin, they update, like, customers. And so there's color coding, and it's like, okay, are there red flags in any of the numbers that I need to, to call shit on? And I think that is, that obviously reduces your anxiety, and it helps you make sure that you're trusting but verifying. I think the second thing around it is that how much... If something is a profitable spend, how much should you spend?

   6. SPSam Parr13:29

      It depends on, on... It, it all depends on, on a lot of different stuff. But if you're spending money and you're making 30% profit, go all in.

   7. NKNoah Kagan13:36

      A hun- There's no budget. It's unlimited. And I think that's part of the question with the spending for me, is that where is our spending very profitable? Like, is it in marketing, is it in development, is it in sales? Is it in the partner success team? Or is there things like that that should be more like AWS, where they're, they're a little bit more scalable up and down, and they're not as profitable, so we need to be mindful of that.

   8. SPSam Parr13:56

      How big do you think this business could get in, like, 10 or 20 years? Do you have, do you ever think about that?

   9. NKNoah Kagan14:01

      I'm just trying to survive to, to next year, dude. [laughs] I mean, we... You know, it's funny, we've had, as we've grown... And it's been interesting, 'cause I have my YouTube channel, which is a very small team of, like, five people, and then we have AppSumo, which is a larger, uh, thing. I come back to the why, right? Like, on AppSumo it's very simple. We promote dope tools at great prices, and we help people start and grow online businesses. AppSumo.com. And, um, I think we have to come back to that. 'Cause people are like, "Where are you gonna be in five years?" I'm like, "Probably helping people grow and start online businesses and promoting software."

   10. SPSam Parr14:30

       No, I know you're gonna be doing the same thing, but, like, do you think that-

   11. NKNoah Kagan14:32

       Our revenue was... I mean, we were... Yeah. We, we, we went to their, the spreadsheet and we tripled numbers. Silicon Valley double double, triple triple from In-N-Out.

   12. SPSam Parr14:40

       [laughs]

   13. NKNoah Kagan14:41

       And, uh, we became a billion-dollar company revenue in, like, five years or something like that. I, I think right now what I, I... Candidly, some of our mechanics in terms of the scalable business means as we add partners, do we get customers, and does the business grow? Um, the m- the... How do I say it more clearly? It's just not adding up. Like, we added more partners this year, and the proportional amount of customers did not come with that. And so we have to work a little bit more on that flywheel, which is normally a big bet, I'm sure.

   14. SPSam Parr15:08

       Well, I think that much of with Trends, so we had Trends, our subscription service, we fucking crushed it during COVID. We crushed it. And I think now sales slowed down a little bit. I think it's cyclical, but this, the, like... I bet, if I had to bet, COVID was, like, the best times you ever had. Um-

   15. NKNoah Kagan15:26

       COVID, COVID was great, man. I thought it was just great in general, right? I thought it brought... There's a lot of good about COVID, just about humanity and, uh, not the death part nec- maybe, but, like, the bringing people closer. I don't know, man. I, I've been doing the internet shit since 2004. I've never had a recession. And it's not that I have some superpower, but it's like, well, the only way to not have a recession is just keep doing things that people want. And basically I, I think one of the other key things to kinda consider is how do you have discipline when times are good so you don't have to be as disciplined when times are bad? And I think right now, candidly with AppSumo, I think we're being a little bit undisciplined with our spending and our hiring because times have been better, and I'm trying to get that a little bit more tighter, whether the, you know, the future is good or not.

   16. SPSam Parr16:05

       Why is your YouTube team so big?

   17. NKNoah Kagan16:07

       Five people? I don't even think it's that big.

   18. SPSam Parr16:09

       I thought you said-

   19. NKNoah Kagan16:09

       MrBeast has, like, 100 people.

   20. SPSam Parr16:11

       No way. You think he has 100 employees?

   21. NKNoah Kagan16:13

       At least 50 full-time. At least 50 full-time-

   22. SPSam Parr16:16

       No way

   23. NKNoah Kagan16:16

       ... if not 100 with contractors. Yeah, dude.

   24. SPSam Parr16:17

       Do you... And are they... What's his name?

   25. NKNoah Kagan16:19

       The MrBeast? Jimmy.

   26. SPSam Parr16:21

       Jimmy. Are they all, like... It's, 'cause it's like the Jimmy show, right? So it's like whatever he wants, you do. Do you... It, I think that'd be weird to have 50 employees where it's like, "Hey, guys. Next week I'm thinking I wanna do this." The reason I would hate that is because then you've got someone like, "Hey, Jimmy. What if we had a Rolling Stones song in the background?" No. I don't want that. Just like, let me do what I wanna do, please. Just, like, fulfill that.

   27. NKNoah Kagan16:42

       It's a... So we have a head of staff, and one thing I've never... One thing I hate, I hate when someone's like, "Hey, can you remind me about this?" And I'm like, "No, bitch, just write it down. I just told you."

   28. SPSam Parr16:52

       [laughs]

   29. NKNoah Kagan16:52

       "You want me to remind you? Like, do your job." But I will say, you know, becoming CEO, which I never called myself over the years until recently, and, uh, is that there is times where you're like, "Yo, remind me." And you're like, "Oh my God, you're gonna remind me?" Her name's Anna, who's head of staff. She's phenomenal. And then with the YouTube channel I'm like, "Hey, I want you to come back with more ideas. Come, go pitch me 10 more ideas. Go, go..." And they come back and they pi- I'm like, "This is the best ever." And so I think it is figuring out, you know, what areas you like to play in, and then being around people that you're just consistently impressed with. But having people that'll do, help you figure out shit, oh God, it's epic.

   30. SPSam Parr17:27

       Are you getting noticed on the street now?
4. 22:15 – 35:05

   Does being rich really make you happier? (Yes)

   1. NKNoah Kagan22:15

      all these productivity tools, and everyone's always, everyone's always just like, "What's the latest produ-" I'm like, "You're not even doing anything." [laughs] Like, don't worry about the calendar or the productivity tool. Worry about just doing important things.

   2. SPSam Parr22:25

      This is the best productivity tool, the back of an envelope.

   3. NKNoah Kagan22:28

      That's... Damn.

   4. SPSam Parr22:29

      It's a good... Like, gets the job done. When you-

   5. NKNoah Kagan22:31

      Uh, my crypto thing, yeah. I buy... I'm a boring investor. So I think there's active income and passive income, and I try to focus on my active. So I just started buying in 2015, and I just put it on autopilot, and I just auto-bought it every month for the past six years.

   6. SPSam Parr22:44

      And it's, like, made up a substantial... I mean, you've, you've done well with it, I think, which is pretty great.

   7. NKNoah Kagan22:50

      Yeah. I'll tell you the number on that. That I don't mind.

   8. SPSam Parr22:52

      Well, okay. I mean, you can.

   9. NKNoah Kagan22:53

      No, I don't have to tell you. It's fine.

   10. SPSam Parr22:55

       I, I, if I had to bet, can I, can I guess?

   11. NKNoah Kagan22:58

       Oh, yeah, or I'll be cagey.

   12. SPSam Parr22:59

       I would guess between one and two million.

   13. NKNoah Kagan23:02

       No, four million, but-

   14. SPSam Parr23:03

       It's four million?

   15. NKNoah Kagan23:05

       Yeah.

   16. SPSam Parr23:06

       Isn't that nuts?

   17. NKNoah Kagan23:07

       I... Well, it's always so funny, 'cause then you're like... Yesterday I was... This weekend I was, like, disappointed I didn't buy CryptoPunks when my buddy was like, "You should buy it. Buy it, dude." But it was, like, $50,000. And I'm like, "That's fucking crazy to buy status and imagery," and, like-

   18. SPSam Parr23:21

       It's an investment.

   19. NKNoah Kagan23:22

       It's only an investment when it goes up. It's gambling when it goes down. And, uh-

   20. SPSam Parr23:25

       Well, the NFTs, I, I think, are mostly fucking stupid.

   21. NKNoah Kagan23:29

       Oh, don't get me start- Dude, I just went on a deep hole on that stuff.

   22. SPSam Parr23:31

       Are you on board or not?

   23. NKNoah Kagan23:33

       Dude, I just got scammed. I lost my... I'm like, I can't... I don't even know what happened for the past two weeks. I'm like, yesterday I woke up at 8:00 AM to buy apes. I just spent $1,600 on apes.

   24. SPSam Parr23:45

       What, what... Of the, of the four million in crypto, how much did you... What, what's your, what's your basis there?

   25. NKNoah Kagan23:50

       Um, I could pull it up. It's probably maybe about half a million or 400,000.

   26. SPSam Parr23:56

       Isn't that amazing? Isn't, isn't that crazy?

   27. NKNoah Kagan23:58

       Uh, yeah. Well, I think I've always just bel- It's interesting, 'cause I've, I've always... Not always. When I started using it, I was like, "Oh, I can see why p- this is gonna be big." Um, but yeah, the return on it as an investment is pretty insane.

   28. SPSam Parr24:11

       That's nuts. W- what el- And, like, what else could do that? Like, some public equity ... equities. Uh, but you don't even angel invest, do you? I mean, angel invest could do that, it just takes forever.

   29. NKNoah Kagan24:22

       Yeah, it's not... I mean, I think the best investment for everyone is their own business. So if you look at it like active income, like really creating your own company has pretty much the highest multiples I can imagine. Also, you can control it if you can get something to work, 'cause most of them don't work that well.

   30. SPSam Parr24:35

       Yeah, but you gotta grind sometimes. Often.
5. 35:05 – 47:10

   Noah's thoughts from meeting Peter Thiel and startup cities

   1. NKNoah Kagan35:05

      also had three security guards and, you know, cameras, and they checked the building and all that kinda stuff. I think I, I admired that he is a thinker, and it made me appreciate wh- You know, I met him when I worked at Facebook, and [laughs] I still remember this story. He, like, bought into our poker game, and then he had to go meet with Zuck, and then he lost. And then he's like, "Hey, can I get my money back?" And then Boz, who's now, like, the CTO, was like, "Fuck no." [laughs]

   2. SPSam Parr35:26

      He asked for his money back?

   3. NKNoah Kagan35:27

      I'm like, this guy... Yeah, Peter did. And I was like, can't believe... And then also we would say no to the guy who's the, our only, you know, the main investor at the time. Uh, I, I think the other thing that I appreciated about him besides-

   4. SPSam Parr35:37

      How much, how much was the buy-in?

   5. NKNoah Kagan35:39

      Like, 10 bucks.

   6. SPSam Parr35:40

      And he asked for it back?

   7. NKNoah Kagan35:41

      He asked for his money back. I was like, what are you doing, dude? Like, I f- I was kinda surprised he wanted it back, but then I like that Boz's like, "Fuck you."

   8. SPSam Parr35:47

      He t- and he, he said that exactly like that? He said, "Fuck you, no"?

   9. NKNoah Kagan35:50

      No, no, no. He just was like, "No." And then the funny thing about that, I, I, like, busted out, uh, I don't know, maybe, like, 20 minutes later. And I go outside and his, like, half a million dollar McLaren is sitting outside. [laughs] And I was like, all right, all right.

   10. SPSam Parr36:03

       What, did you tell him that, did you remind him of, of that story when you were with him recently?

   11. NKNoah Kagan36:06

       No, I don't think he remembers me.

   12. SPSam Parr36:07

       Um-

   13. NKNoah Kagan36:08

       Uh, but yeah. I, I think the second thing about him is that he's a very... I have a, I'm just looking at my notes of him. I don't mind sharing. I think just, like, he, he's just a deep thinker. It, it just felt like this guy's, like, really... Like, him and, and this is another, you know, him and, like, Keith Rabois and all these guys, they're a lot of history readers They're like deep ass, like reading boring fucking books about 1900 history that I, I just won't d- I'm not... won't, I just don't do. And I think that gives it, that's where a lot of their advantage comes from.

   14. SPSam Parr36:33

       So Ben, who's on this podcast, has this podcast on, it's on history, and he just talks about historical figures, and he does a biography on them. It's incredibly fascinating. And right before you came on, we did a whole podcast on history and how, um, you could just lear- you could learn s- y- you basically could just not make the mistakes that other people have made just from reading about them. So it's kind of interesting. Uh, Keith Rabois, I don't know Keith Rabois other than Twitter. Dude, he comes off like such a jerk on Twitter. I don't know if I wanna hang out with him. But I would definitely would wanna meet, uh, Peter Thiel.

   15. NKNoah Kagan37:03

       Dude, Keith's a legend. I love me Keith Rabois. Him, David Sacks. Oh, I don't listen to the All-In show. Um, I only listen to The Hustle.

   16. SPSam Parr37:12

       Have you met Keith? Is he, is he cool?

   17. NKNoah Kagan37:13

       Yeah. Keith is sharp. Keith doesn't really respond to me.

   18. SPSam Parr37:16

       Dude, come-

   19. NKNoah Kagan37:16

       He, he doesn't respond to me as much anymore, 'cause I've been trying to get him on my show, uh, on the Noah Kagan Show. And, um, but he's just fucking bright, man. Like, the guy is very bright. I think he's very astute. I also like people that have a f- like I, I think lately I'm more considerate. And I like when you're... He's at a level of wealth in the hundreds of millions that it's just like, fuck it. And he's like, "Yo, that guy's a dumbass. San Francisco's bullshit. I think this is cra-" And I, I have a lot of admiration for anyone who has a, a strong opinion.

   20. SPSam Parr37:40

       I like that too. I just think that you could do it, I don't think that you need to be polite all the time. I'm an asshole too. I just think that, like, when you are a boss and you're a winner, and you maybe pick on the weak ones publicly in a, in a rude and abrupt way, it makes you look weak and soft, and like a bully. And I think that I, that's h- how I don't like how he comes off online. But whenever I have seen interviews with him, he seems incredibly kind. Not kind, but polite.

   21. NKNoah Kagan38:08

       I don't know. I mean, I think, I, I guess I also agree with his opinions, so I the don't mind his, uh, his approach. Like, he's like, "Elizabeth Warren sucks. C- Miami's the best. Here's like businesses that I'm, um, you know, really bullish on." So I, I-

   22. SPSam Parr38:21

       Dude, there's no... You like Miami?

   23. NKNoah Kagan38:23

       I'm more neutral to it. I haven't spent enough time. It seems appealing. Like there's, I really wanted to go to Art Basel. Like that's on a bucket list, man, to see all the cool art and NFT, and just like the vibe. Uh, I'm not... I, I think every city's got a f- every, everyone has a calling when they get into a city. Miami's never called me to live there when I visit, but it's enjoyable.

   24. SPSam Parr38:40

       Would you stay, or do intend to stay in, in Austin for a while?

   25. NKNoah Kagan38:43

       Yeah. I think it's also y- if you ever feel like stuck in life, like I was feeling a little flat and like frustrated with a lot of work shit going on and, you know, I don't know, I wanted pity party. And I think to take a, you know, to take a power party and you gotta get the fuck out. So like I was in Albuquerque last week. I'm gonna go to C- Cabo this weekend. Gonna go to the Bay or in LA in a few weeks. I think you need to get the fuck out sometimes and just change geography.

   26. SPSam Parr39:03

       So tell me about Peter Thiel. What do your notes say?

   27. NKNoah Kagan39:06

       I w- okay, here's a shocker. This was a shock to me. Sam, if you had fi... He's probably worth like 10 billion. I was like, "Peter, how much are you spending on longevity?" And he's like, "Almost nothing."

   28. SPSam Parr39:17

       What? That's crazy. I would like, that's... Spend everything on that.

   29. NKNoah Kagan39:20

       I was like, "Dude, drop a bill. Give me a billion. I'll solve it." Uh-

   30. SPSam Parr39:23

       So he doesn't spend anything on longevity?
6. 47:10 – 58:15

   How would you live differently if you were a billionaire?

   1. NKNoah Kagan47:10

      mine or it's not his.

   2. SPSam Parr47:11

      Like, it's not your kid. I mean, it just feels weird-

   3. NKNoah Kagan47:12

      I know

   4. SPSam Parr47:12

      ... that, like-

   5. NKNoah Kagan47:13

      I know

   6. SPSam Parr47:13

      ... you love him, but you're not... It's not your, your blood or your, you know.

   7. NKNoah Kagan47:17

      It is part, some blood, I think genetically.

   8. SPSam Parr47:18

      Some.

   9. NKNoah Kagan47:19

      Uh, yeah, I think I'll have kids. I mean, I... Maybe I'll go to a sperm bank and just donate a ton, and then each of those kids gets, like, a mil. Maybe they get... Each one of them gets a CryptoPunk. [laughs]

   10. SPSam Parr47:28

       Oh, shit. Um, we're gonna wrap up here in a minute, but this has been a, uh, a meandering episode. I actually think it's gonna go over kind of well. I, I, I, I, I think people are gonna dig it.

   11. NKNoah Kagan47:39

       I, you know, I got nothing to say to that. I, I thought it's interesting. I mean, talked about a variety of subjects and then what, what do people want out of the show? Why do you think people listen? Something to, like, entertain, like empty calories?

   12. SPSam Parr47:51

       Frankly-

   13. NKNoah Kagan47:52

       Is it business advice?

   14. SPSam Parr47:53

       So there's a few things. O- one, I will say I'm shocked anyone listens, but at this point-

   15. NKNoah Kagan47:58

       [laughs]

   16. SPSam Parr47:58

       ... we're at, w- we're at, we're, we're, like, over a million downloads a month now, um, which is crazy. So some episodes, like 50, 60, 70,000 downloads, which is pretty crazy. Um, two, shockingly, people find us funny. Like, that's what the comments say, which amaze me. And three, I would say Shaan's really good. I think Shaan's good. I think a lot of people listen for him.

   17. NKNoah Kagan48:22

       You're good too, man. You're d- a good follow on. I mean, I think what it is, is you're the only ones left podcasting. Like, everyone gave up like a few years ago, and you're like, "No one told you," [laughs] so you kept going.

   18. SPSam Parr48:31

       It's been so hard

   19. NKNoah Kagan48:33

       It is hard, man. But I think that's, you know, you for- my mom always says this, like, you forget how hard the last lap is. And I think sometimes when you just kinda push through it and you're like, "Oh, I guess that wasn't so hard," is the further away you get from it.

   20. SPSam Parr48:44

       Well, did, is YouTube easier, you think?

   21. NKNoah Kagan48:47

       Ah. Uh, it's hard... You could, you could... What, define easy, right, is the bullshit answer.

   22. SPSam Parr48:53

       Well-

   23. NKNoah Kagan48:53

       Um-

   24. SPSam Parr48:54

       Yeah

   25. NKNoah Kagan48:54

       ... it's challenging in a, in a different way. I think the intimacy of an audience is really high with podcasts. Like, they're really spending a lot of time with you. YouTube, it's harder to be successful on it. I think it's harder. Eh, I don't know, harder. But there is a broader audience available for you to reach. So that's why I spend all my ti- That's why I stopped podcasting more or less. I do have my show, The Noah Kagan Presents. But, you know, of my content creation audience building, 95% of that's in YouTube world.

   26. SPSam Parr49:20

       The thing with-

   27. NKNoah Kagan49:21

       It's also harder for people to do it. Like, you can't just go-

   28. SPSam Parr49:23

       It's so hard. It's so hard. It takes forever

   29. NKNoah Kagan49:24

       I know. You put out a video and, like... Well, all of it takes forever. It's just, like, I think f- you know, the bullshit answer is find the thing that you could work forever on.

   30. SPSam Parr49:32

       My video that I... I made my first YouTube video. I'm gonna start doing one a week. It got 3,000 views, baby.
7. 58:15 – 1:04:44

   What Noah and Sam are reading

   1. SPSam Parr58:15

      Um-

   2. NKNoah Kagan58:16

      Ooh

   3. SPSam Parr58:16

      ... Little Golden America. In the 1930s, two Russian journalists from the USSR-

   4. NKNoah Kagan58:21

      Ooh

   5. SPSam Parr58:21

      ... were, were welcomed into America, and they just traveled-

   6. NKNoah Kagan58:24

      Ooh

   7. SPSam Parr58:24

      ... for, uh, four months all, all over America. And they're like, "You know, it's pretty crazy. In America..." And they just like, they just explain from their pers- perspective what America's about. They're like, "In America, everyone's so optimistic. For example-

   8. NKNoah Kagan58:35

      Oh

   9. SPSam Parr58:36

      ... we met these guy..." It's cool.

   10. NKNoah Kagan58:37

       This is good.

   11. SPSam Parr58:37

       And it's r- No one knows about it in America, but it's one of the most popular books in Russia.

   12. NKNoah Kagan58:43

       In Russia, you book read you. Uh, [laughs] uh, what else? Oh, dude, there's some other good ones. Did you read about the... D- dude, you know Ryan Holiday's book list is really good.

   13. SPSam Parr58:54

       Uh, his email list?

   14. NKNoah Kagan58:55

       His email list. He just recommends books. It's on his-

   15. SPSam Parr58:57

       I don't know how he c- he consumes so much.

   16. NKNoah Kagan59:00

       I don't know, dude. He's like-

   17. SPSam Parr59:02

       It's like 10-

   18. NKNoah Kagan59:02

       ... audiobook spe-

   19. SPSam Parr59:02

       It, it's like 10 a month. H- Y- He, there's no way he, he doesn't audiobook.

   20. NKNoah Kagan59:07

       I have... No, I think he reads. He's probably, like, it has to be paper, and if it's not this, like certain density of organic paper, I won't read it.

   21. SPSam Parr59:13

       He once said if you're not taking notes, then you're not reading effectively.

   22. NKNoah Kagan59:18

       I think that's true.

   23. SPSam Parr59:19

       Yeah, but that's like a... I mean, I'm not gonna take notes on like killing Bin Laden.

   24. NKNoah Kagan59:23

       I don't take n- but most of the books on Kindle or physical, I either highlight and then I'll reread them.

   25. SPSam Parr59:28

       Yeah, but dude, if I'm just listening to like, uh, a book, like about these guys walking around in their underwear trying to like get from place to place, I'm not gonna like, you know... Or like Fight Club, I'm not gonna like write notes. Any other ones?

   26. NKNoah Kagan59:42

       Um, dude, Trevor Noah's book I was like, "Eh, I don't care about that guy."

   27. SPSam Parr59:47

       Everyone talks about that book.

   28. NKNoah Kagan59:49

       It's a, it's a, just a really well-written book. It's kinda like-

   29. SPSam Parr59:51

       It's that good?

   30. NKNoah Kagan59:52

       Well, it's like David Goggins book. I'm like, all right, David, you're gonna yell at me. You're really hardcore. I get it. You could do pushups or pull-ups. That's great. His book, if you haven't read David's, like everyone talked about. It's honestly a pheno- One, it's very well-written, and two, it's just a great story. It's just a fun read.

Episode duration: 1:04:44