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WHAT IT’S REALLY ABOUT
Noah Kagan on AppSumo growth, money psychology, and NFT obsession
- Noah describes AppSumo’s origins as a basement side hustle aimed at $3,000/month and reflects on how it grew into a large company with about 140 people.
- Noah explains why he doesn’t plan 10 years out, emphasizing customer focus, curiosity-driven work, and surviving/improving the business mechanics year-to-year.
- They discuss founder psychology around spending and payroll, including how budgeting assumptions can create danger if revenue targets aren’t met, and how Noah uses KPI “red flags” to manage this.
- Sam and Noah debate wealth and happiness, with Sam saying being rich is far better despite persistent money anxieties, while Noah shares how he thinks about valuing a company versus personal net worth.
- The conversation explores crypto/NFTs and DAOs (including CityDAO), plus reflections from meeting Peter Thiel, who Noah describes as unusually normal in habits yet highly present and intellectually deep.
IDEAS WORTH REMEMBERING
5 ideasAppSumo started as a practical side hustle, not a grand plan.
Noah says AppSumo began in a San Francisco basement with a modest goal of $3,000/month (split into living, eating, and saving), not a vision of millions, customers, or a big team.
Noah avoids long-horizon fantasizing and focuses on serving customers now.
Noah says a Paul Graham idea shaped him: if you focus too much on where the company will be in 10 years, you won’t take care of customers today—and the business may not survive to 10 years.
Returning to the CEO role reduced comfort but increased meaning.
Noah describes stepping back while someone else ran AppSumo, then returning as CEO when that leader moved into an advisor role; he says being back in the seat made him respect the job more and find the work harder but more rewarding.
Profit discipline matters more when you can’t rely on outside funding.
Noah describes anxiety around spending and budgeting: big expenses (like advertising) feel risky in a non-funded business, and budgeting can backfire if you spend for ambitious targets and miss them.
He uses simple operating rhythms (KPIs + red flags) to manage risk and attention.
Noah says his way to reduce stress is a weekly KPI sheet with color-coded red flags (“trust but verify”), and he frames a key question as where spending is “very profitable” versus where it needs to be more flexible/scalable.
WORDS WORTH SAVING
5 quotesNo, it just started as a side hustle. Like, I was in a basement in San Francisco that was like, "Yo, I, I have a theory about what I think will be big, and I wanna make 3,000 bucks a month."
— Noah Kagan
I was even writing that down in my diary this morning. I said, "Dear diary, hard work is rewarding."
— Noah Kagan
Yes, we make revenue, but at the end of the day, if we don't have income and you're not a funded business, you're gonna go out of business.
— Noah Kagan
It's bullshit. It's way better. It's way better.
— Sam Parr
It's only an investment when it goes up. It's gambling when it goes down.
— Noah Kagan
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SPEAKERS
Noah Kagan
guestEntrepreneur and founder of AppSumo; creator of the show “The Noah Kagan Presents.”
Sam Parr
hostCo-host of the My First Million podcast and founder of The Hustle (acquired by HubSpot).
High quality AI-generated summary created from speaker-labeled transcript.
