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Peter Attia MDPeter Attia MD

#137 - Paul Offit, M.D.: An expert perspective on COVID-19 vaccines

Sign up to receive Peter's email newsletter: https://bit.ly/4c602k2 Paul Offit is a pediatrician specializing in infectious diseases and an expert in virology and vaccine development. He currently serves on the FDA committee overseeing and evaluating COVID-19 vaccines. In this episode, Paul discusses the strategies and major companies pursuing a vaccine against the SARS-CoV-2 virus. He gets into the nuances of the vaccine approval process and its implications for COVID-19 vaccine outlook. Paul also explains potential risks, reveals his own confidence level in safety, and gives insight into protection against reinfection with vaccination. Please note that this episode was recorded 11/05/2020, prior to the 11/09/2020 news release of the Pfizer vaccine update. We discuss: 00:00:00 - Intro 00:03:30 - How Paul’s experience as a child in a chronic care hospital as child informed his path in pediatrics and vaccine development 00:08:00 - Addressing the anti-vaccination sentiment and explaining the fraudulent origins of the anti-vaccination movement 00:17:00 - Lessons and insights from 26 years studying rotavirus and creating a successful rotavirus vaccine 00:27:15 - Developing a new vaccine: the different phases of clinical trials, overall timeline, and financial costs 00:32:30 - Operation Warp Speed: the expedited process of creating a coronavirus vaccine 00:35:00 - Various vaccine strategies—RNA, DNA, virus vector—and the challenges associated 00:41:15 - The Moderna and Pfizer mRNA vaccines: strategy, timeline, and Emergency Use Authorization 00:48:30 - Paul’s confidence level in the safety of the first coronavirus vaccines 00:52:15 - The risks associated with different types of vaccines, and updates on the Johnson & Johnson and Astrazeneca coronavirus vaccines 00:55:45 - What we know about the coronavirus vaccines approved in Russia and China 00:57:15 - The latest on the Merck coronavirus vaccine 00:57:45 - The recombinant/purified protein vaccine approach for coronavirus—big players, risks, and the best vaccine for the elderly 01:02:00 - Attenuated and inactivated vaccine strategies for coronavirus 01:02:30 - The genetic drift of SARS-CoV-2: Impacts for protection and vaccine development 01:06:45 - Paul’s take on the hypothesis that a previous coronavirus infection offers protection against the novel COVID-19 01:19:15 - Addressing the concern that antibodies fade over time 01:13:00 - Blood type and protective against coronavirus 01:13:15 - Distribution: the challenge of prioritizing the limited doses of vaccines after approval 01:16:15 - Paul’s perspective on COVID-19 vaccine safety 01:21:45 - Considerations regarding vaccinating children for coronavirus and the role of a fever immune response 01:29 :45 - Why vaccine development can be challenging and risks of current COVID-19 strategies Show notes page: https://peterattiamd.com/pauloffit/ About: The Peter Attia Drive is a weekly, ultra-deep-dive podcast focusing on maximizing health, longevity, critical thinking…and a few other things. With over 30 million episodes downloaded, it features topics including fasting, ketosis, Alzheimer’s disease, cancer, mental health, and much more. Peter is a physician focusing on the applied science of longevity. His practice deals extensively with nutritional interventions, exercise physiology, sleep physiology, emotional and mental health, and pharmacology to increase lifespan (delay the onset of chronic disease), while simultaneously improving healthspan (quality of life). Learn more: https://peterattiamd.com/ Subscribe to receive exclusive subscriber-only content: https://peterattiamd.com/subscribe/ Sign up to receive Peter's email newsletter: https://peterattiamd.com/newsletter/ Connect with Peter on: Facebook: http://bit.ly/PeterAttiaMDFB Twitter: http://bit.ly/PeterAttiaMDTW Instagram: http://bit.ly/PeterAttiaMDIG Subscribe to The Drive: Apple Podcast: http://bit.ly/TheDriveApplePodcasts Overcast: http://bit.ly/TheDriveOvercast Spotify: http://bit.ly/TheDriveSpotify Google Play: http://bit.ly/TheDriveGooglePlay

Peter AttiahostPaul Offitguest
Nov 16, 20201h 36mWatch on YouTube ↗

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At a glance

WHAT IT’S REALLY ABOUT

Paul Offit Explains COVID-19 Vaccine Strategies, Risks, Safety Data, and Rollout Challenges

  1. Paul Offit links his childhood stay in a chronic care hospital during the polio era to his career in pediatrics, vaccine development, and child advocacy, and calls Andrew Wakefield a fraud whose discredited MMR-autism claim ended up marginalizing anti-vaccine voices.
  2. Using his 26 years on the rotavirus vaccine, Offit and Peter Attia walk through the phases of vaccine trials, the typical 15 to 20 year, billion-dollar timeline, and how RotaShield's rare intussusception shows why small trials can miss side effects.
  3. Offit says Operation Warp Speed compressed development by having the government pay for phase three trials and at-risk manufacturing, and the pair survey the four strategies: mRNA, adenovirus vector, purified protein, and inactivated or attenuated vaccines.
  4. Offit says he is optimistic about safety under Emergency Use Authorization because known serious vaccine side effects appeared within two months, while flagging concerns about clinical holds, cold-chain storage, and immune-enhancement seen with old inactivated RSV and measles vaccines.
  5. They also cover rationing and distribution of limited doses, Offit's expectation that the virus will drift little, why fading antibodies may not matter, vaccinating children, and his argument against treating fevers.

IDEAS WORTH REMEMBERING

5 ideas

Offit's childhood experience shaped his advocacy for vulnerable children.

He describes his weeks in a polio-era ward with one weekly visiting hour as a scar that motivated his path into pediatrics, vaccine-making, and child advocacy.

Wakefield's fraud ultimately helped marginalize anti-vaccine voices.

Offit argues that once Wakefield was exposed, mainstream media rejected him, and that the MMR-autism question has been studied 18 times in seven countries and answered.

Small trials can miss rare side effects.

RotaShield's intussusception risk of roughly 1 in 10,000 to 1 in 30,000 appeared only after licensure despite 50 years of rotavirus study, which is why Offit calls for humility with new platforms.

Operation Warp Speed shortened timelines by removing financial risk.

Offit says the government paid for phase three trials and at-risk mass production, steps no company would take, making a vaccine in about a year and a quarter possible versus the usual 15 to 20 years.

Offit believes two months of follow-up is enough to detect serious vaccine side effects.

He cites polio from oral vaccine, narcolepsy, thrombocytopenia, Guillain-Barré, and yellow fever disease, noting that he and ACIP colleagues could think of no serious side effect missed after two months.

WORDS WORTH SAVING

5 quotes

I think that we are motivated by the scars of our youth.

— Paul Offit

Seeing how hard vaccines were to make, how easy it was to damn them got me interested in trying to fight with facts.

— Paul Offit

He was a charlatan of the first order because he took advantage of parents' desperate desire to do something for their children.

— Paul Offit

A year and a quarter to make a vaccine with only having the virus in hand in January, that's remarkably fast. It's unimaginably fast.

— Paul Offit

This is not a virus that just gets in, kills you, and, and gets out, or gets in, makes you sick, and gets out. There are longer term effects with this virus, and it should be taken seriously.

— Paul Offit

Offit's childhood hospitalization and career motivationWakefield fraud and the anti-vaccine movementRotavirus vaccine development and RotaShieldPhases of vaccine clinical trialsOperation Warp Speed and Emergency Use AuthorizationmRNA, adenovirus, protein, and inactivated vaccinesVaccine distribution, rationing, and children

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