Skip to content

By playing, you agree to uListen's Terms and Privacy Policy and YouTube's Terms of Service.

Peter Attia MDPeter Attia MD

#154 - Steve Levitt, Ph.D.: Climate change, mental health, the ethics of experiments, and more

Steven Levitt is a professor of economics at the University of Chicago and the co-author of the bestselling book Freakonomics and its two sequels. In this episode, Steve discusses his unlikely path to a career in economics and his view of the current state, and limitations, of the field. He also gives his unique perspective on contemporary issues including climate change, mental health in education, how to evaluate whether an experiment is ethical, decision making, horse racing, and much more. We discuss: 00:00:00 - Intro 00:00:10 - How Steve ended up in economics 00:06:20 - Current trends in the field of economics: macro vs. micro, usefulness of models, and the relationship between data and theory 00:17:15 - Revisiting what Steve wrote about climate change in SuperFreakonomics, and why it’s unlikely to be solved with behavioral change 00:26:50 - The consequences of a blurred line between climate science and advocacy 00:31:40 - Answering climate questions with a “Manhattan Project for climate change” 00:40:35 - Steve’s reflections on his career path and how he found his way by being himself 00:55:25 - How Steve came to write Freakonomics (and its sequels), and the topics which caused the most controversy 01:14:35 - How Steve came to appreciate mental health through parenting, and the need to emphasize mental health into the education system 01:35:30 - Why people are bad at making decisions 01:44:40 - Deliberating on why horse racing times haven’t advance much in decades 01:55:30 - Reducing the impact of negative emotions by observing the world free of language 02:01:30 - Changing our thinking about what it means to conduct experiments ethically Show notes page: https://peterattiamd.com/stevelevitt/ About: The Peter Attia Drive is a weekly, ultra-deep-dive podcast focusing on maximizing health, longevity, critical thinking…and a few other things. With over 25 million episodes downloaded, it features topics including fasting, ketosis, Alzheimer’s disease, cancer, mental health, and much more. Peter is a physician focusing on the applied science of longevity. His practice deals extensively with nutritional interventions, exercise physiology, sleep physiology, emotional and mental health, and pharmacology to increase lifespan (delay the onset of chronic disease), while simultaneously improving healthspan (quality of life). Learn more: https://peterattiamd.com/​​​ Subscribe to receive exclusive subscriber-only content: https://peterattiamd.com/subscribe/​​​ Sign up to receive Peter's email newsletter: https://peterattiamd.com/newsletter/​​​ Connect with Peter on: Facebook: http://bit.ly/PeterAttiaMDFB​​​ Twitter: http://bit.ly/PeterAttiaMDTW​​​ Instagram: http://bit.ly/PeterAttiaMDIG​​​ Subscribe to The Drive: Apple Podcast: http://bit.ly/TheDriveApplePodcasts​​​ Overcast: http://bit.ly/TheDriveOvercast​​​ Spotify: http://bit.ly/TheDriveSpotify​​​ Google Play: http://bit.ly/TheDriveGooglePlay

Peter AttiahostSteve Levittguest
Mar 22, 20212h 13mWatch on YouTube ↗

Summaries, chapters, transcripts, and FAQs on this page are made by uListen, not YouTube.

At a glance

WHAT IT’S REALLY ABOUT

Steve Levitt on Economics, Climate, Mental Health, and Rethinking Ethics

  1. Levitt explains he drifted into economics by accident, found success by abandoning status-chasing and studying what he liked, and credits luck heavily for the success of Freakonomics.
  2. He argues economics should separate agreed-upon data facts from theory, and criticizes fancy counterfactual models and macroeconomics as too complex to be reliable.
  3. On climate change, Levitt says behavior change cannot solve an externality problem, advocates geoengineering research and a Manhattan Project for climate, and notes the asymmetric risk of catastrophe; Attia raises policy gridlock as a concern.
  4. The conversation turns personal as Levitt describes his late arrival to caring about mental health, his calm in the face of his daughter's eating disorder, and how losing his infant son shaped his acceptance-based parenting.
  5. Levitt closes with playful and provocative ideas, including training a racehorse like an endurance athlete, observing the world free of language, and paying large sums to volunteers for COVID challenge trials and kidney donation.

IDEAS WORTH REMEMBERING

5 ideas

Being yourself beat following the status hierarchy

Levitt failed at macro and theory, then thrived once he felt freed as the 'dumbest person in the room' and studied topics he liked, such as crime and the show Cops.

Separate the facts from their implications

Levitt believes data analysis should establish a handful of facts any reasonable person would accept, with models and debate about implications coming afterward; he wishes journalism and debates worked this way.

Climate change is an externality that behavior change won't fix

Levitt says no externality problem has been solved by telling people to do the right thing, so he favors technology, including geoengineering and a five-year Manhattan Project costing about a billion dollars a year.

Cheap R&D is valuable insurance against asymmetric risks

Both men note that catastrophe risk is asymmetric, and Levitt cites an economic analysis showing people would pay far more than the probability of death to avoid it, plus the idea of stockpiling vaccine capacity before COVID.

Mental health deserves far more weight in education

Levitt says he cares more about his kids being well-adjusted than being good at calculus, but admits he doesn't know how to implement this and suggests experimentation across school districts.

WORDS WORTH SAVING

5 quotes

I challenge you to find one that wasn't solved by technology.

— Steve Levitt

When I looked around and I was the dumbest person in the room, it was this sense of joy.

— Steve Levitt

I made a choice to just not care what other people thought about me.

— Steve Levitt

I think if we went back to square one and we thought about what we should teach children about navigating the world, we would radically overhaul the curriculum

— Steve Levitt

I find that it's very difficult for me to be unhappy or angry, um, without words.

— Steve Levitt

Levitt's accidental path into economicsMicro vs. macroeconomics and the limits of modelsSeparating facts from theoryClimate change, geoengineering, and a Manhattan ProjectWriting Freakonomics and its controversiesMental health, parenting, and radical acceptanceMedical ethics, challenge trials, and paying for organs

High quality AI-generated summary created from speaker-labeled transcript.

Get more out of YouTube videos.

Read along on your phone, search it beside the video, or ask your favorite AI app what was said.

iOSAndroidClaudeChrome