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Peter Attia MD208 - Tragedy, grief, healing, and finding happiness | Kelsey Chittick
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CHAPTERS
- 0:02 – 6:18
Growing Up a Swimmer and Choosing UNC
Kelsey describes growing up in Winter Park, Florida, and becoming a state-champion swimmer in backstroke and butterfly. She explains how she turned down in-state scholarship offers to go to Chapel Hill, and she and Peter compare notes on swimming.
- •Started swimming at four and won state titles in the 100 back and 100 fly
- •Recruiting and scholarships for girls were not much on the radar back then
- •Turned down in-state offers to get a new experience at Chapel Hill
- •Earned a partial scholarship that became a full one after making NCAAs
- •Peter and Kelsey compare strokes and IM strategy
- 6:18 – 11:39
Meeting Nate and Falling in Love
Kelsey recounts meeting Nate at a bar the summer before her junior year and how he claimed her at a house party. She explains what drew her to his warmth, joy and search for meaning, and how they got engaged at the World Trade Center in 2001.
- •Nate gave her a napkin line the night they met
- •He took the phone from her ex and said 'She's with me now'
- •She was drawn to how he made everyone feel like the most important person
- •They bonded over questions of purpose, service and spirituality
- •They got engaged in July 2001 and married in 2002
- 11:39 – 16:44
Nate's Long Shot at the NFL and the Jeff Saturday Story
Peter asks how Kelsey viewed Nate's chances of making the NFL. She describes his path from the bottom of the depth chart to the Giants practice squad and the Colts, and the story of how he got Jeff Saturday a tryout.
- •Kelsey says she told Nate he'd never make it, and he just wanted a shot
- •Neither family was into football
- •Nate made the Giants practice squad, then landed with the Colts
- •He vouched for Jeff Saturday, who was working at an auto parts store
- •Saturday went on to a Hall of Fame-caliber career
- 16:44 – 24:06
The Rams' 1999 Run and a Body in Constant Pain
Kelsey recalls the Rams' 1999 playoff run and Super Bowl experience under Dick Vermeil. She then discusses how Nate was in pain from early on because of the weight he put on to play the line, including his sleep apnea mask, and what she expected for his future health.
- •The 1999 Rams team had great energy and Dick Vermeil was an advocate for his players
- •Kelsey did not want Nate put in on the last play
- •Nate gained enormous weight to play the line and was always banged up
- •He got a sleep apnea mask at 22
- •Kelsey assumed he would lose weight after football, but he secretly loved being big
- 24:06 – 37:24
Retirement, Social Work and the Median NFL Career
Nate retired around 2004 just before their son was born, and Kelsey describes the difficult adjustment to ordinary life. Peter and Kelsey discuss how typical NFL careers are short and how conflicted Kelsey feels about football.
- •Nate had no job and few practical skills when he retired
- •Kelsey pushed him toward a master's in social work
- •Peter notes the median NFL career is about three years
- •Kelsey says she feels conflicted about football's community benefits versus its costs
- •Nate was depressed during the transition but later found purpose in financial advising
- 37:24 – 40:26
Nate's Health, Weight and Warning Signs
Peter asks when they discussed Nate's weight and health after retirement. Kelsey describes her constant pressure on him, his cycles of getting in shape, the NFL health program, and the heart and cholesterol findings she later found in his records.
- •Kelsey pushed him about weight from day one
- •Nate cycled between sober, fit stretches and indulgent months
- •She found a records page showing heart, cholesterol and weight problems
- •She believes her harshness made it feel unsafe for him to be honest
- •He stayed very athletic and strong despite his size
- 40:26 – 50:12
Premonitions, Anxiety and Nate Changing
Kelsey describes two or three years of unexplained anxiety and a sense that something big was coming. She also describes Nate seeming far away, forgetful and sad, and the journals she later found.
- •Kelsey felt something was coming and was told to prepare
- •She would wake up screaming that Nate was gone
- •Nate told her to stop being afraid and that everything was okay
- •He forgot things, was sad, and seemed to be floating away
- •His journals showed him urging himself to find joy again
- 50:12 – 59:46
Jamaica and the News of Nate's Death
Despite her panic, Nate insisted Kelsey go to the Jamaica retreat and drove her to the airport. On the last day she learned he had collapsed and died, and she describes the flight home and the stranger who helped her.
- •Nate called the trip non-negotiable and held her hand on the drive to the airport
- •Kelsey felt the divine while swimming just before the call came
- •She knew immediately he was gone and her anxiety had already lifted
- •A doctor confirmed he died of a heart attack
- •A woman on the plane told her to decide who she wanted to be when she landed
- 59:46 – 1:02:00
Telling the Children
Kelsey describes arriving at her friend's house to tell her 9- and 12-year-old that their father had died. She explains the three things she told them and how they asked only that she be okay.
- •She had told the kids over FaceTime that Nate was not doing well
- •She told them their father would not have left unless they'd be okay
- •She said she was enough and they should stay kids
- •She told them they were not victims but the lucky ones
- •They said that if she was okay, they were okay
- 1:02:00 – 1:12:25
The Darkest Days: Physical Grief and Struggling Kids
Peter asks about the lowest lows, and Kelsey describes the physical pain of grief, the morgue visit and her dark thoughts around six months in. She describes her children's isolation and her son's suicidal comment, and how humor and honesty helped them through.
- •Grief felt physical and she understood suicidal despair for the first time
- •Saying goodbye at the morgue gave her unexpected closure
- •Counseling was too early for the kids, who covered their ears
- •Her son said that if he had a gun he'd kill himself, and Kelsey stayed calm and kept guns out of the house
- •She says laughter and honesty helped them through the nights
- 1:12:25 – 1:15:35
A New Relationship with Death and Holding Joy with Grief
Peter and Kelsey compare modern expectations with life 10,000 years ago, and Kelsey says our comfort has reduced resilience. She says she now holds deep grief and deep happiness at once, with a completely different view of death.
- •Modern expectations of a long, easy life make people less resilient
- •Kelsey says pain and death are not necessarily bad
- •She holds grief and gratitude together rather than in stages
- •Her mother-in-law believes she will grieve forever, which Kelsey accepts as a choice
- •Kelsey says she is happier than ever
- 1:15:35 – 1:25:15
Autopsy Results: Heart Disease and CTE
Kelsey describes the autopsy finding of cardiomyopathy and an enlarged heart, then the Boston University brain analysis showing stage two to almost stage three CTE. They discuss how CTE looks from outside and how Nate's children do not find solace in the diagnosis.
- •Nate died of left ventricle cardiomyopathy and his arteries were 98% blocked
- •The LA coroner lacked the tools to examine the brain, so tissue went to Boston University
- •Dr. McKee reported stage two to almost stage three CTE
- •His mother, brother and Kelsey had all sensed changes in him
- •The kids don't find comfort in the diagnosis, but Jack chose not to play football
- 1:25:15 – 1:34:41
Sleep, Memory and the Slow Rewiring of Grief
Peter asks about sleep and waking without the moment of forgetting. Kelsey describes how long the shock lasted, how new neural pathways formed, how she handles videos and pictures, and how kids grieve differently.
- •Sleeping pills made her feel far from everything
- •The morning moment of forgetting lasted until about six months before the four-year mark
- •Everything led back to Nate until new places and people formed new pathways
- •She sets a limited time to feel her emotions and revisit videos
- •Kids live in the present and don't like to see parents sobbing
- 1:34:41 – 1:49:52
First Psychedelic Journey and Reconnecting with Nate
Kelsey describes her fear and judgment about psychedelics and her first plant journey about nine months after Nate died. She relived the flight, felt her anger at Nate, and then had an experience of Nate telling her he had never left.
- •She was afraid of psychedelics because of family addiction history
- •A placebo first triggered a panic attack before the real medicine
- •She relived the plane ride with support and recovered the blocked memories
- •She released rage at Nate for leaving
- •She describes Nate telling her to live fearlessly and that they had all chosen this
- 1:49:52 – 2:03:47
Psychedelics, Therapy, Meditation and Radical Acceptance
Kelsey and Peter discuss what psychedelics do, how they differ from drugs that only change state, and why they work best alongside therapy and practice. Kelsey describes her daily meditation and her understanding of radical acceptance.
- •Peter's framework separates drugs that change state from those that can change traits
- •Kelsey says psilocybin opened a pathway of ease and fearlessness she now walks more often
- •Peter warns the molecule alone doesn't do all the work
- •Kelsey is militant about meditation and credits Joe Dispenza's work
- •Radical acceptance means not wishing things were different
- 2:03:47 – 2:11:49
Advice for the Newly Bereaved and Writing the Book
Kelsey says those three months out should hang on and do the work, building a bridge plank by plank. She then describes writing her book, her reasons for it, reader feedback about duality, and her kids' reluctance to read it.
- •Humans are built to last and the work eventually supports you
- •Meditation, reading and gratitude are planks in the bridge
- •She wrote the book so her kids and descendants would know Nate's story
- •The writing process swung between hating it and finding it fun with an editor
- •Readers thanked her for honesty about both the awful and the good
