EVERY SPOKEN WORD
130 min read · 26,120 words- 0:00 – 12:04
Intro
- KSKara Swisher
... Trump, you're a grifty grifter. I don't know if we can stop him, but he's like piling up the grift like you can't believe. (instrumental music) Hi, everyone. This is Pivot from New York Magazine and the Vox Media Podcast Network. I'm Kara Swisher.
- SGScott Galloway
And I'm Scott Galloway.
- KSKara Swisher
Scott, did you hear who my seatmate was? Your favorite person. On my way to California to talk to Democrats. I can't say them.
- SGScott Galloway
Oh, uh, Gordon Gekko. I mean, Speaker-
- KSKara Swisher
(laughs)
- SGScott Galloway
... Emirates head Pelosi.
- KSKara Swisher
Yes, she was delightful! She's a delightful seatmate, I must say. Uh, sh- let me just tell you one thing about her. First of all, I recognized it was her because it was like a t- it was a, it was a plane full of political people. Zoe Lofgren was on there. Uh, um, uh, Eric Swalwell was on there. Um, but she, she... Someone yelled out, "White smoke," really loudly, an- an older lady, (laughs) and it turned out to be her. And spent much of the beginning of the flight, uh, having me figure out who the Pope was for her. She's, you know, quite Catholic. And carrying lots of newspapers, constantly moving throughout the entire thing. I mean, she's in really good shape for someone her, of her age. Of any age, actually. So it was fun. We had a good time. She says hi.
- SGScott Galloway
I think she's, uh, very fashionable.
- KSKara Swisher
She is. Well, she was wearing a very comfortable but fashionable outfit, I would say. I would say very comfortable. Um, and one of the things that struck me was how many people came up to her. I know you have antipathy towards her, but most people don't. It was astonishing how many people gave her notes and handed her little things saying they loved her and this and that, and it was interesting. It was really-
- SGScott Galloway
Look, I don't... Uh, I think she's been a great representative. I think she's a powerful, smart woman.
- KSKara Swisher
Mm-hmm.
- SGScott Galloway
I also think she's, uh, engages in wild corruption. So I, I don't-
- KSKara Swisher
Yeah, not like a Qatari airplane, so.
- SGScott Galloway
Well, we'll, we'll get to that, but that-
- KSKara Swisher
All right, yeah.
- SGScott Galloway
But the slow creep has not helped.
- KSKara Swisher
Yeah. No, I agree. The stock thing has to be dealt with throughout, throughout Congress, by the way.
- SGScott Galloway
Yeah, agreed.
- KSKara Swisher
You know, when there was a Republican, uh, who did it, who, who was saying he was against it, and then he suddenly was doing a lot of trading, Marjorie Taylor Greene. They shouldn't be trading, and I ge- and again, I think your idea of paying them more is a great idea, um, in order to get them off of that, the, the... 'Cause it, another part, you know, you're smart people. You wanna make some money and, and you can't help yourself, but you do have insider information to a lot of things, and p-
- SGScott Galloway
Look, I've, I've said this over and over. I'm trying to be better about coming up with solutions.
- KSKara Swisher
Mm-hmm.
- SGScott Galloway
Uh, I think there should be a bill, and I think there's a decent chance it would pass.
- KSKara Swisher
Mm-hmm.
- SGScott Galloway
One million an e- a year for representatives, three million a year for senators, 10 million-
- KSKara Swisher
Oh.
- SGScott Galloway
... a year for the president, in exchange-
- KSKara Swisher
Hmm.
- SGScott Galloway
... for a zero tolerance policy on corruption. They put all of their assets-
- KSKara Swisher
You know, but then how do you... Like-
- SGScott Galloway
What?
- 12:04 – 18:01
U.S./China Trade Deal
- KSKara Swisher
But first, the US and China have reached a deal to roll back the sky-high tariffs they've imposed on each other, at least for the next 90, another 90-day thing. Under the deal, the US tariffs on China will drop from 145% to 30%, while China will cut its own tariffs on American goods from 125% to 10%. These tariff reductions will go into effect Wednesday. China also said it will suspend or cancel tariff countermeasures, including restrictions on rare earth metals that have been hitting automakers and chip makers.The markets are thrilled by this China deal. The Dow surged 1,000 points at the opening bell. No surprise. Treasury Secretary, Scott Bessant, was on, just on CNBC calling this a pause and saying he expects to meet with China in the coming weeks to work out a larger agreement. I mean, w- uh, i- what? Like why are we go- why did we do this? I guess, to get them to do this? Is this better? Better or worse? I can't even tell because the specifics are, are not there. Um, Bessant also said neither side wants a decoupling, meaning we wanna get along with the Chinese. That's probably hello. We already knew that. If you're an American company right now, I don't know what your next move is, and Scott, how many dolls are you buying me? That's what I really wanna know, but t- talk about this deal, I guess.
- SGScott Galloway
Uh, this is capitulation.
- KSKara Swisher
Yeah.
- SGScott Galloway
You don't, you don't show up and levy a hundred... Say you're levying 145%, and then, and then a week later start negotiating against yourself and saying-
- KSKara Swisher
Yeah.
- SGScott Galloway
... they're unsustainable. And it's like, "Well, why did you put that number out there to begin with?"
- KSKara Swisher
Right.
- SGScott Galloway
And then say there's a temporary pause/interim tariff of 30%.
- KSKara Swisher
Dignity gone.
- SGScott Galloway
And, uh, this is the reality. China gets, kinda gets what they want because China has made a strategic decision to divest from the US. They have taken the percentage of their exports from 24% to 17, which is huge when you look at the size. And as we pretend that our dick is much bigger than it is, we're their third-largest trading partner. We're not even number one. So they're fine to slowly but surely go through a measured decoupling actually, or reduction, independence upon us. Trump has created so much ill will. I mean, do you realize, uh, a- and this is the thing people don't realize in terms of brand. For the first time in history, when you do, w- there was a national, a global poll done of global consumers, and for the first time in history, more people see China as a positive force in the world than the US.
- KSKara Swisher
Oh, I- I cannot believe that. I saw that.
- SGScott Galloway
So (laughs) when opting for, "Where should my kid go to graduate school? Where should, who should I do business with? Who am I inclined, what kind of business am I inclined to meet with? What widget or aircraft should I buy, Chinese or American?" More people around the globe for the first time now pick China.
- KSKara Swisher
Yes, an authoritarian communist country that (laughs) -
- SGScott Galloway
(laughs)
- KSKara Swisher
... that follows its people. It- it is, uh, l- ugh. It's so ridiculous what we've done here.
- SGScott Galloway
So, uh, a- and then just on a more economic level, in terms of capital outflows, in the wake of this-
- KSKara Swisher
Mm-hmm.
- SGScott Galloway
... nonsense, investors have rushed to the exits on all dollar denominated investments, and the US dollar index is down 6% year-to-date. More than 10 billion has been wiped out of the s- off of the stock market. The Magnificent Seven alone lost, you know,2 trillion on April 3rd and 4th. So there's just, uh, th- i- this is just a massive attempt to claim some sort of Pyrrhic victory in exchange for massively trading off the equity that we (laughs) have developed over the last 80 years. This is just, um, just stupid. Again, these, these guys don't understand business. They don't understand negotiation. They don't understand even our dollar dominance. People estimate that we get interest rates on mortgages, student loans, and credit cards of between a half a percent and a percent lower because so many people buy our dollars to invest here. And so, the- i- the real damage is incremental. It's like a virus that's eating away that you can't even identify. It's all these little, it's, you know, death by 1,000 cuts, and America has taken for granted just how powerful having the dollar as the reserve currency, having these inflows of capital, having people feel decent goodwill about us. And he's torn those up such that we can go to 30% temporary tariffs?
- KSKara Swisher
Yeah.
- SGScott Galloway
So it'll make shit more expensive, and I-
- KSKara Swisher
90 days. All this 90-day nonsense. I mean, what if you're a business? Tell me-
- SGScott Galloway
How do you plan?
- KSKara Swisher
Like, if you're creating a business-
- SGScott Galloway
How do you plan?
- KSKara Swisher
... how do you know-
- SGScott Galloway
Yeah.
- KSKara Swisher
I guess you're relieved that now we're not being insane and ruining, like, but it's already wrecked a bunch of people's businesses, thrown planning out the window, and what do you do? 'Cause you don't know what this lunatic's gonna do next, and I don't mean China.
- SGScott Galloway
Yeah. You're right. I- I don't, I mean, we've talked a lot about this. I, I-
- KSKara Swisher
Mm-hmm.
- SGScott Galloway
... th- i- there are... A- America is meant to be a platform for, for rights, to protect our shores-
- 18:01 – 23:34
Trump’s Luxury Plane from Qatar
- KSKara Swisher
President Trump is heading out, uh, on the first major overseas trip of his second term this week with stops in Saudi Arabia, Qatar, and United Arab Emirates, presumably to collect new bags of money. The trip comes as the Trump administration plans to accept a $400 million luxury Boeing 747-800 from Qatar, possibly the largest foreign gift in US history. The plane will be retrofitted to be used as Air Force One, which I don't even wanna think about the security implications, and donate it to Trump's presidential library when he leaves office, allowing him to still use it. Despite all the ethical questions being raised, Trump called it a very public and transparent transaction on Truth Social. And Press Secretary, Carolyn Levitt, Tracy Flick, who is just so bad, said in a statement, "Any gift given by a foreign government is always accepted in full compliance with all applicable laws." It's the griftiest grift yet. I mean, this is just... I'll note, the Trump family struck a deal to build a luxury golf resort in Qatar a few weeks ago. I mean, I ca- uh, w-... uh, uh, uh, it's all in plain sight, I guess, is the only good thing we could say about it. All the billions they're making and taking from these, these Arab countries. Um, and he wants to call the, the, uh, the Gulf, the Persian Gulf, the Gulf of Arabia now, another one? I mean, what is ha- why doesn't he just go there in his plane and live there for the rest of his life? I don't know what else to say 'cause I- was he looking for a place to go if he ever gets convicted of anything? I, I don't honestly know what's happening here.
- SGScott Galloway
Well, again-
- KSKara Swisher
Stop.
- SGScott Galloway
... I go to the brand. Do you know how stupid this makes us look, that we have to have, uh, rich Qataris buy the president a plane that's manufactured here?
- KSKara Swisher
Right.
- SGScott Galloway
We're the most prosperous nation in the world.
- KSKara Swisher
Yeah.
- SGScott Galloway
But we need a government that... (laughs) An authoritarian government that sponsors the Houthis and Hamas-
- KSKara Swisher
Yeah, that's right. Oh, yeah.
- SGScott Galloway
... to give us a plane.
- KSKara Swisher
Hamas.
- SGScott Galloway
And I have... So I have a group of friends from college, mostly Jews, who are pro-Trump. They, they could kind of hold their nose around the man and his policies, but they found that Biden and Harris' wavering around Israel was really disappointing.
- KSKara Swisher
Mm-hmm.
- SGScott Galloway
And so they're, they're... quite frankly, they're pro-Trump or they voted for Trump 'cause they see him as more resolute on Israel.
- KSKara Swisher
Mm-hmm. Sure.
- SGScott Galloway
This is... uh, Qatar basically is the, the diplomatic mouthpiece and funds Hamas. And so the notion that the Trump administration gave a flying fuck about anti-Semitism as they try and implement thought control across our universities, and is meanwhile saying that Middle East policy is now pay-for-play, that, that he's now the ultimate frequent... there's now a new frequent flyer category for Qatar Airlines, and the president is the only person on it. And in exchange, they're gonna have leverage over a guy who claims to be focused on anti-Semitism? I mean, it's just, it's just... I, I find, I find that (clears throat) Jews in America that support Trump are kind of like, "Okay, yeah." The, there's like the white Christian nationals, the evangelicals are big fond- really fond of Jews and Israel. But if you actually do a little bit of digging, the reason they're fond of Jews is a little bit unsettling. They think we're part of their master plan when Jesus comes back.
- KSKara Swisher
Yeah.
- SGScott Galloway
It's like, okay, just dig a little deep on what their plan-
- KSKara Swisher
Yeah.
- SGScott Galloway
... is for us and why they like us.
- KSKara Swisher
End times. It's all about the end times, just so you know. I have relatives... (laughs) I hear a lot-
- SGScott Galloway
And-
- KSKara Swisher
... about the... Do you know what I did? The p- the bumper sticker my brother made for my relatives who are very, very, um, charismatic Christians, I guess I would call them.
- SGScott Galloway
What's that?
- KSKara Swisher
Um, he made a, he made a, them a... Uh, they're lovely people, but they're m- m- n- uh, they have varying degrees of religiosity. But she, he made, uh, my aunt, uh, a bumper sticker said, "When the rapture sh- comes, can I have your stuff?"
- SGScott Galloway
Huh. I thought that was gonna be funnier. How is Dr. Swisher?
- KSKara Swisher
(laughs) He's good. He's good.
- SGScott Galloway
He's good?
- KSKara Swisher
He's in Portland visiting his son right now. He's good.
- SGScott Galloway
His son's in Oregon?
- 23:34 – 32:43
Pope Mania
- KSKara Swisher
The pope, uh, Leo XIV, the first American pope, laid out a vision of his papacy over the weekend, identifying AI as one of the most critical issues facing humanity. It was interesting. He was also sporting an Apple Watch at his first official mass. He also seems to be a very techy pope. Uh, let's invite him on the show. That would be great. And while many have cheered the election of American pope, the MAGA folks are not happy. Activist Laura Loomer branded him, "woke Marxist pope." Steve Bannon predicted friction with Trump. As for people... pope Leo's political leanings, voting records show the Chicago native has participated in Republican and Democratic primaries in various elections. An X account under his name has criticized Trump's policies in the past and also rebuked JD Vance back in February. He's got a crazy Trumpy brother who, who, who, who, uh... what, uh, was he saying? He's saying a bunch of things that are really nutty. Um, one brother is calmer. He has two brothers. The older one is in- seems insane. Um, he's fr- uh, as you said, from Chicago. His... He, he has a background, interestingly, of Creole and from Haiti. He's got a really interesting, um... You know, they're s- calling him also the Black pope, uh, but he's definitely got, um... They did some really interesting reporting on that, which is cool. Uh, he's been all over the world. He's very international. Uh, seems fascinating. Um, so we'll get to the memes in a bit. What do you think of this pope Leo? And so far, he seems very vibrant and exciting and, uh, interesting.
- SGScott Galloway
Uh, I think he's the pope because of Donald Trump. I think that if you look at the new leaders of Australia and, or the existing leaders of Australia, they are-... and Canada, basically Trump got them elected. And he got them elected because the other, their opponents were more closely associated with Trump. So Trump is basically, anyone who's not Trump or represents a pushback on his policies, is ascending to the most powerful positions in the world, and I think that's what happened here. I think the papacy, or the papacy, takes very seriously how they can have the most impact. And if you look at when the Eastern Bloc was really going through a difficult time, they decided to pick someone from the Eastern Bloc. They picked Pope John Paul II from Poland. I think they see there's a relevance and a, and a, and a means of adding value by saying, "When a place is struggling, we pick someone from there in hopes that they serve as sort of a moral standard-bearer." My father-in-law absolutely adores Pope John Paul II. He's, he's, um, born and raised in Poland. And I think that it's no accident that they've decided that America needs a, a pope, that they need somebody... I mean, the, the best, the best line that identifies or marks this very dark moment in American history is what Bill Gates said. And that is that the richest man in the world is killing the world's poorest children. And I thought, "Jesus Christ, that's puncturing and sad." And that-
- KSKara Swisher
I'm glad he said it.
- SGScott Galloway
... kind of identifies, that kind of identifies our po- our, our, our MAGA politics right now. And I think that the, the, the cardinals who elect, I think they decided that America need, is in desperate need of a moral standard-bearer, and the world needs someone that America will take seriously. And I was thinking so much about like how did my generation fuck up so bad? (laughs) And I was thinking, for me, it all comes back to a personal parable. My-
- KSKara Swisher
Ooh, you're doing a parable? How exciting.
- SGScott Galloway
Well, my, my youngest has always built... He's got the most wonderful grandparents.
- KSKara Swisher
Mm-hmm.
- SGScott Galloway
And his granddad-
- KSKara Swisher
Your wife's parents, correct? Your wife's-
- SGScott Galloway
Yeah. Um, my grandparents have been done. Average age expectancy, you know how everyone says, "I'm gonna live forever."
- KSKara Swisher
Mm-hmm.
- SGScott Galloway
Like, none of my grandparents made it past 50. (laughs)
- KSKara Swisher
Wow.
- SGScott Galloway
Anyways. So, he's just the most wonderful man. Took over the family room to build a train set for the, for the boys. And he's always with, with, uh, my youngest, built these LEGOs. And, and this time he came over, my youngest is 14 and into girls and Snap and fashion and football, and they built about half of it, and then he said, you know, uh, "Zsa Zsa, I don't, I, I don't wanna do this. I don't feel like it." Uh, and, you know, he wasn't enjoying it that much. And I could tell it was very upsetting. It's like one of those moments when you feel like that's probably the last time I'll pick up my kid or the last time I'll build a LEGO with my grandson. And I was trying to figure out a way to say to him, "Look, that's not cool. E- even if you didn't want to build this or finish it, you should've realized this was important to your grandfather and finished it." And what I've been thinking about is that, you know, I've been ta- writing a lot about, uh, becoming a man. I think that my generation and our politics have become more about our feelings as opposed to our, our values. And that is, we don't do a good enough job of identifying values and then basing those actions and those political views off those values, as opposed to just what makes us feel good or feel like we're part of a tribe or feels some sort of thrill because the other side looks stupid, or feels confirmation because we're signed up for whatever narrative w- the party we've chosen believes. But I do think there's a, there's a degradation or a move away from values, and as a guiding light as opposed to just-
- KSKara Swisher
And this guy's feels like values.
- SGScott Galloway
And this guy's, this guy's really got ver- I mean, he's not afraid. He's (laughs) called, he's called Russia's invasion, you know, he said Russia is loving wickedness.
- KSKara Swisher
Mm-hmm.
- SGScott Galloway
He's not afraid to tweet about shit.
- KSKara Swisher
Mm-hmm.
- SGScott Galloway
And, uh, uh, I like to think that the, the Church has said, "All right, there needs to be some sort of rejuvenation or a move back towards values in the West, as opposed to what-"
- KSKara Swisher
Well-
- SGScott Galloway
"... everyone thinks is gonna make them feel good."
- KSKara Swisher
... depends on what your values are th- 'cause there's a very conservative shift in many people in the US. The mo- the most, um, uh, devout, and I'm, I'm using that term loosely, um, are the w- the conservative groups that are sort of machinating behind the scenes, um, in the, in the Catholic Church. There's a whole groups of, of, of, of very conservative Catholics. And JD Vance is a convert, obviously, um, and is among those, and the concepts are much more old Latin pope, like Benedict, "Let's go back to before Ben- before Vatican II," and everything else. And I agree, I think this guy is a choice that they make. I, I happen to be Catholic. Um, I don't know what your relig- I don't even know what your religion is. Um, but I, I, my grandmother went to mass every day. I got confirmed, I never got- went inside a Catholic Church since, really. Um, I did that for her. Um, but, uh, it's a r- there's a real movement, uh, either it goes quite left or quite right. Um, and, uh, and it's g- it's responding to growth in Latin America and Africa and different places, I think, where more, where there's more conservative m- but there is a real conservative, uh, shift in this country. And I think Pope Francis was smart to pick all those cardinals. There's one pope that's from s- I mean, excuse me, one cardinal that's, Cardinal Dolan in New York, who's, uh, his, um, um, his favorite one who's quite conservative. And, and, uh, I have to say, Nancy Pelosi gave me a walkthrough all the conservative cardinals in, in the, in the country. She's obviously... She's not allowed to be, um, to get communion in San Francisco, but I think other priests give her communion in some fashion. But, um, it, there's a real s- there's a real struggle going on, so this should be a really interesting pope. Um, but more importantly, there's pope jokes, which were really good. Uh, you know, whatever, if Laura Loomer and Steve Bannon don't like something, sign me up, I think. Um, but, uh, you shared a Chicago pope one, which looks like a new TV show coming to NBC, very funny, The Wiener Circle, which I love, in Chicago, the famous, it's a famous Chicago hot dog stand where they insult you, puts, uh, Latin translation, "He has eaten our dogs," on their sign. Someone posted on X, "Smart play for the Vatican to go with an American pope to avoid tariffs." That was cute. And Stephen Colbert put it, "Holy Father, you had me at JD Vance is wrong." Did you have any other pope memes you liked, or do you have a joke yourself? I feel like you might have a pope joke. Maybe you don't.
- SGScott Galloway
Oh, Kara, you know, I ... The churches, they're just religious institutions. There just are some limits to even what I will say-
- KSKara Swisher
(laughs)
- SGScott Galloway
... about the Church and El Papa. And, you know, I mean-
- KSKara Swisher
Here we go. (laughs)
- SGScott Galloway
... I, I will say, it was ... struck me as kind of unusual when the Pope said pets should not replace children-
- KSKara Swisher
Uh-huh.
- SGScott Galloway
... in Italy. I guess he doesn't like priests practicing bestiality.
- 32:43 – 39:08
Newark Airport Chaos
- KSKara Swisher
And chaos at Newark Airport continues. As of Monday, the airport has been hit with three outages in under two weeks. Uh, air- US airlines are meeting with the FAA this week to discuss cutting Newark flights. Transportation Secretary Sean Duffy was on Meet the Press this weekend. Let's listen to what this dingbat has to say.
- NANarrator
I'm concerned about the whole airspace. Right? The equipment that we use, much of it, we can't buy parts for new. We have to go on eBay and buy parts if one part goes down. You're dealing with really old equipment. We're dealing with copper wires, not fiber, not high-speed fiber. Um, and so, eh, this is, this is concerning. Is it safe? Yes, we have redundancies, multiple redundancies in place to keep you safe when you fly. Um, but we should also recognize we're seeing, we're seeing stress on an old network, and it's time to fix it.
- KSKara Swisher
Yes. So Doge, of course, he, they asked him about Doge, and he sort of kinda squirreled around on the cuts that Elon was trying to make there. Um, one of them was so weird uh, uh, that I was reading about this weekend, that Doge made it so you couldn't charge anything more than $1 to your credit card, your government credit card, 'cause they can't buy paper and pens right now because of that stupidity. Um, so Newark. I, I, I, uh, I don't fly out of Newark. (laughs) I tend not to. I try not to. I go out of JFK or LaGuardia. But when I'm in New York, uh, any mo- any thoughts about concerns about air travel and what he had to say?
- SGScott Galloway
Well, N- Newark is a great airport, and this doesn't, in my opinion, this doesn't reflect on them.
- KSKara Swisher
Mm-hmm.
- SGScott Galloway
What it reflects on is that ... Or look, it's pretty basic fucking logic. When Lloyd Austin was the Secretary of Defense, jets weren't falling off of aircraft carriers.
- KSKara Swisher
Yeah.
- SGScott Galloway
And when Pete Buttigieg was the Secretary of Transportation, we didn't have near misses and shutdowns at airports-
- KSKara Swisher
Yeah.
- SGScott Galloway
... because air traffic controllers are so demoralized and there's not enough of them. And this guy figures out a way to do his interpretive dance in blame ... I actually saw him blame Schumer for this.
- KSKara Swisher
Mm-hmm.
- SGScott Galloway
And all these tropes around, around, yeah, it's the safest form of transit. Do your fucking job.
- KSKara Swisher
Yeah.
- SGScott Galloway
This is-
- KSKara Swisher
Right.
- SGScott Galloway
... totally unacceptable. People-
- KSKara Swisher
Yeah.
- SGScott Galloway
(laughs) Eh, what do you want? Eh, eh, people want prosperity. Money is the transfer of time and work, and when you're delaying people for hours and sometimes days at a time because of your incompetence in decision to bring in someone who knows absolutely nothing about government and start making reckless cuts that results in, uh, uh, not only a reduction in safety, but a massive expansion in the amount of peop- in the amount of time, people, that's taken away from their families and their work and economic productivity. Again, it's another one of these slow-burning, slow burn of our prosperity. And yeah, I, everything he's saying is right, but they're, they're all ... Eh, eh, this is his f- he's responsible. What is he doing right now to solve the problem at Newark?
- KSKara Swisher
He's yammer, yamming that everybody else is wrong. That's what they do. Mm-hmm.
- SGScott Galloway
Anyway, I, I don't-
- KSKara Swisher
I agree. It's like, when did this suddenly happen? Oh, now it's 'cause, now we're here and we figured it out. No, now you're here and you're an incompetent n- administrator of a, a very critical-
- SGScott Galloway
It-
- KSKara Swisher
... part of our infrastructure.
- SGScott Galloway
This is-
- KSKara Swisher
He just, this gu-
- SGScott Galloway
I'm sorry about that, Kara.
- KSKara Swisher
This guy seems dumb as a box of hammers.
- SGScott Galloway
Again, this is another thing that I, I just don't think Americans ... And unfortunately, they're about to learn the hard way how incredible our FAA and our government-
- KSKara Swisher
Mm-hmm.
- SGScott Galloway
... employees and, uh, the regulations and the certification and the seat check ... As someone who's loved aviation their whole life, has been molesting the Earth for 30 years and has flown (sighs) probably tens of millions of miles, and I, I'm fascinated with planes and aviation. People don't appreciate, what they, what they realize very early on is they're not gonna make it like cars where there, uh, there's an acceptable number of deaths. 10,000, you know, what is it? Uh, 20,000 traffic deaths a year? Um, because it's worth it. They said no. This is so uncomfortable to begin with. To put people in a cylindrical tube with recirculated air and then convince them it's safe to travel at 8/10ths the speed of sound across the surface of the atmosphere, quite frankly, is just unsettling. It does not feel natural. But if we can connect the world, if we can give people the opportunity to fly around the world safely, we're gonna have the most unbelievable unlock in terms of, of human capital being willing to go to its greatest return. Okay, I can ... Uh, I did this for 10 years. I commuted to New York. I wanted to live in Florida 'cause it was better for my kids, but I still needed to work in New York, so I commuted. Why? Because you can get on a plane and travel 1,000 miles and then tra- eh, commute 1,000 miles because it's that safe and it's that comfortable and it's that inexpensive. These things are so over-engineered. They are so safe. If we had anything resembling the fatality rates of automobiles-
- 39:08 – 43:17
Elizabeth Holmes’s Partner Has a New Company
- KSKara Swisher
Scott, we're back. We're gonna make quick work of this, I think. While Elizabeth Holmes is in prison for defrauding investors, her partner and father of her children is raising money for a company that, wait for it, claims to be the future of diagnostics. Billy Evans is distributing marketing materials claiming the company, and I'm ... Haemanthus, I think that's what it's called, is a radically new approach to health testing and will test blood, saliva and urine. The company's probably aiming to raise over $50 million. Will start testing pets with a goal of developing a stamp-sized wearable product for humans. Marketing materials reviewed by The New York Times say there is no regulatory oversight. Investor presentations reportedly did not mention Evans' relationship to Elizabeth Holmes. Uh, will there be free trials at the Fyrefest too? Uh, I just, uh, you know, I, I believe in pivoting, but this seems a little bit too much on the nose. I don't know anything about it. What do you think?
- SGScott Galloway
Well, and I got a lot of shit for it, but I thought Elizabeth Holmes sentence was overdone.
- KSKara Swisher
Agree.
- SGScott Galloway
Um ...
- KSKara Swisher
I have to, I agree with you with this. I agree with you.
- SGScott Galloway
And I-
- KSKara Swisher
Given what other people have done.
- SGScott Galloway
And I found it unsettling. Only 2% of f- of founders of unicorns are female.
- KSKara Swisher
Mm-hmm.
- SGScott Galloway
And one, you know, I didn't think there was a lot different between what, what, um, Adam Neumann did and Elizabeth Holmes did. They both lied to their board, they both exaggerated. Um, yeah. And, and I, look, a different set of circumstances, I think things could've been much different. And people say, "Well, it's health, it's different." She basically lied to the board and exaggerated the results, which quite frankly unicorn executives everywhere do. Um, and I agree she was guilty. I agree she should've gone to jail. And I said it publicly, I thought 10 years was overdone for a first offense for a non-violent criminal. And her husband reached out to me and asked me if I would get involved in a campaign to get her out of jail, and I said, like, "Uh, this isn't, this just isn't something I'm emotionally invested and I- I'm, I can't help." I think he's doing him and her a disservice doing this, 'cause all he's doing is bringing attention to the fact that she did commit a crime and commit fraud, because that'll be the story here. The story won't be the startup, whether it's a good idea or a bad idea. The story will be reminding everybody that his wife, who's in prison and should be in prison, committed fraud. So I just don't think he's, uh, I, I don't think he's being smart about this. I, I don't, uh, I think this is strategically ... You know what I always wonder? In, uh, uh, young people, it's so hard to read the label from inside of the bottle. Young people, everybody needs to establish a kitchen cabinet of people, and people are willing to do it, 'cause people love to give advice, 'cause it makes them feel important. Or you can just call them and say, "Hey, I'm thinking about starting a diagnostics company." And somebody would say, "Okay. You realize you're gonna bring attention to your wife, who is in prison for fraud, for lying about the financial results and the capabilities of a similar company? Have you thought this through?" A- anyone he reached out to who cared about him and was, was honest would have given him that advice. So it, it, I, I hear this, I, I just think about this across all of these people when they make these decisions. It's like, don't they have friends? I have a, I have a, uh, a friend who's literally a master (laughs) of the universe, and he was talking to me about his baby mamas and, and, and what's going on within his personal life and relationships. And I said to him, I said, "Don't you have friends?"
- KSKara Swisher
Mm-hmm.
- SGScott Galloway
Like, "Who do you talk to about this stuff?"
- KSKara Swisher
(laughs) Did you drop some real bomb-
- SGScott Galloway
Well, I said to him, I said-
- KSKara Swisher
... real?
- SGScott Galloway
... "Don't you have friends?" Because this guy is literally one of the most impressive people I've ever met.
- KSKara Swisher
Yeah.
- SGScott Galloway
On any issue, he can give you the most reasoned, thoughtful ... And then you hear about his personal life, and it's like-
- KSKara Swisher
Yeah.
- SGScott Galloway
... "So you just took every piece of bad judgment across your entire life and stuffed it into your relationship with women?"
- KSKara Swisher
Yeah.
- SGScott Galloway
And I mean-
- KSKara Swisher
Right.
- SGScott Galloway
... just a couple phone calls to people saying, "Hey, I'm checking in, I could use your advice."
- KSKara Swisher
Yeah.
- SGScott Galloway
"What do you think? What do you think about this?"
- KSKara Swisher
Yeah.
- SGScott Galloway
Anyway.
- KSKara Swisher
Just for clarification, she's not, uh, Evans' wife, Scott. She's his partner and mother of the kids. They're together.
- SGScott Galloway
Oh, excuse me.
- 43:17 – 46:50
OpenAI IPO?
- SGScott Galloway
- KSKara Swisher
Um, and finally, OpenAI and Microsoft are negotiating the terms of their partnership to allow OpenAI to launch a future IPO according to the Financial Times. Uh, Microsoft has invested $13 billion in the company to date and is reportedly willing to give up some of its equity in exchange for access to new technology developed beyond the 20, uh, 30, uh, cutoff. Uh, w- there's gonna be an IPO here. This is interesting. It's the one with the most revenues, the most users, et cetera, et cetera. And I think they've gotta run ahead of everybody else, correct? I mean, th- this is a race. This is like a ... And they, they are in the lead at this moment. It doesn't mean they're gonna stay in the lead. Uh, a lot of the open systems, like LLaMA, a lot of people feel that that's gonna really dominate, that, that, um, that m- that Meta will. So any thoughts on this? 'Cause you're, you're Mr. Equity.
- SGScott Galloway
This, this'll, this'll happ- uh, this, it makes sense. So what's happened is there's been a total ... the number of companies that are publicly traded has been cut in half in the last couple decades because there's been mergers and acquisitions, and the private markets have, have captured a lot of the innovation and attributes that used to be sequestered to the public market. Specifically, you can now raise billions or even tens of billions in the private market. You can get liquidity for your employees 'cause there's an active secondary market. And also you can avoid all regulation and scrutiny and make kinda harder, tougher, deeper decisions without the scrutiny of public earnings calls. What you, what you have with OpenAI and the reason they will go public is that OpenAI is taking ... And Sam is brilliant. He'll go down as I think one of the vi- kind of the iconic business leaders of this generation. He realizes that this is an Amazon/Netflix play, and that is it is very difficult for OpenA- for any AI to establish technological (laughs) differentiation 'cause AI just crawls it. When you ask DeepSeek what LLM it was, for the first 10 days it said, "I'm, I'm, um, OpenAI." Uh, so these things reverse engineer each other. So this is a capital war around getting the best talent, ge- striking the best deals, making acquisitions and tuck-ins. And now he's in an altitude where he doesn't need to spend billions. He needs to spend tens of billions. And the way, uh, uh, the way he'll be able to do that is by going public and getting, you know, a 400, $500 billion valuation. So it does make sense for him. It's got huge sex appeal, global appeal. It's the fastest, I think, zero to $10 billion run rate.
- KSKara Swisher
Yeah.
- SGScott Galloway
What is it? I think it's a $5 billion run rate right now.
- KSKara Swisher
Five or six, something like that, yeah.
- SGScott Galloway
But it'll get, it'll-
- KSKara Swisher
That gets so useful.
- SGScott Galloway
It'll have a $10 billion run rate pretty soon. It'll go ... He, he, he needs to basically ... This is a capital war. He's gonna outspend-
- KSKara Swisher
Mm-hmm.
- SGScott Galloway
... everybody and there are few companies that can't find enough capital in the private markets. This is probably one of them. He needs, he's gonna go out and raise a shit ton of money.
- KSKara Swisher
They have hired a very adept executive. Uh, their former, um, CEO, uh, former, I think, Meta person or Googler, um, uh, who is the former CEO of Instacart, who's gonna really run ... It's a Ch- it's the, it's the Sheryl Sandberg moment here in that regard, um, uh, to, to run the co- companies, a lot of the business parts of it. So, they really need to run fast and run hard and they, uh, th- I think that most people feel Meta is their biggest, the open, um, source. Meta is their biggest competitor and Mark has n- uh, is, uh, has no guardrails of anything. So, we'll see what happens. Anyway, it has to happen. It has to happen. This is gonna head that way. All right, Scott, uh, one more quick break. We'll be back for wins and fails.
- 46:50 – 1:01:51
Wins and Fails
- KSKara Swisher
Okay, Scott, we're gonna do some wins and fails. I think I shall go first today. Um, I recommend ... There's so many different, there's so many great ... Like, you know, TV's gotten great? There's a lot of great journalism going on, I have to say. I've been, there's some, several stories I've read recently that are just so good, f- interesting and fascinating to read. The one that I really w- struck me this week was in Nick Kristof's latest column in the New York Times. It's a long one. It sheds lights on internal emails from Pornhub that were made public because of a filing error going back to 2020. They show employees laughing about what's on their site and reveal how the company ha- handles child pornography. The, uh, w- the, the, the inability of sites like Pornhub to get rid of, uh, CSAM, SAM it's called, um, child pornography, is horrifying. And the fact that they're so casual about it and you see these emails laughing about it is, uh, with, with the pain it happens to these people is just astonishing. These, these people should be sued back into the Dark Ages for what they're doing here. It's gross and it's bad for kids. I mean, it's bad f- excuse me, it's bad for young men, as you write about a lot, um, and I agree with you. But the fact that they k- that they think it's funny d- uh, about, um, uh, child pornography and the ... The extent of it is so enormous and we, we can talk about the audience for this, and that's another issue, but the fact that these companies facilitate it makes them, uh ... I mean, there's a sickness at the deep heart of humanity on this issue. But, uh, th- this company deserves to be sued out of existence, uh, from just this. And again, not a p- I, I, I, and I'm not a love- I don't like porn. I think it's bad for us. I think the digitization of it has made it even worse. But the fact that they can't control this and they think it's a joke is repulsive, so that's their huge fail. Um, for a win, uh, there's a lot to choose from, uh, including New York will now require schools statewide to ban smartphones during school hours. That's great. But I was thrilled to see Cecily Strong return to SNL this weekend to reprise her role as Judge Jeanine Pirro, uh, after Trump named Pirro, uh, the interim US attorney in DC. That's another incompetent hire, by the way, but she did the whole ... Uh, Colin Jost, uh, also came back, he came back as Pete Hegseth and she spits drinks at him, and it was so funny.
- NANarrator
I love Pete Hegseth. He's my old drinking buddy. (audience laughing)
- SGScott Galloway
Surprise. (laughs) (audience cheering)
- NANarrator
What?
- KSKara Swisher
I love, uh, Cecily Strong and was just delighted to see her there and I'm glad they got her to do that. She does the best Jeanine Pirro. But, uh, from a fail point of view, Jeanine Pirro's an incompetent person to do this job. Never, uh, uh, just incompetent, beyond incompetent for this job. Although the guy she replaced was venal and evil kind of type personality where he was defending, um, J6 people and had all these crazy schemes and everything. So, uh, I guess she's better than him, but that doesn't mean, uh, she's any good. And, uh, it's such an irresponsible appointment. Your thoughts? Your ... Go for it.
- SGScott Galloway
Uh, okay, so my, my feel I've re- referenced before, uh, this, uh, uh, Qatar luxury suite basically the, the privatization of the White House at 40,000 feet-That's not a kickback. It's, it's government capture. And meanwhile, Qatar has funneled over 1.8 billion to Hamas since 2012. Uh, eh, they host Hamas' political leadership in luxury Doha compounds and serves as the terrorist group's primary diplomatic shield. You know, he, the president positions himself as Israel's greatest defender. At, at the same time, he's accepting lavish gifts from a country that bankrolls the organization that murdered 1,200 Jews. It's like you're fucking twins, and then trying to convince each of them that you're monogamous with them. I mean, it's just so ... The cognitive dissonance here is stifling. Uh, and Qatar's influence doesn't stop at the White House. They've poured, get this, 4.7 billion into American universities since 2001. That's more than any other foreign government. You know, this is such a weird relationship. While they host our largest military base in the region, they also maintain cozy relationships with Iran, H- and, and Hamas. And, and meanwhile, America's leverage in the Middle East deteriorates as our president becomes essentially an employee of Qatar Airways with nuclear codes, and our elite universities become intellectual laundromats for authoritarian, anti-Semitic propaganda.
- KSKara Swisher
Mm-hmm.
- SGScott Galloway
So this is not just corruption. It's, it's the purchase of American influence, uh, from the Oval Office to our universities training our next generation of presidents. And when you think about, you know, what's the point here? We want our government ... The founding fathers wanted checks and balances, not deposits and withdrawals from foreign powers.
- KSKara Swisher
Mm-hmm.
- SGScott Galloway
So this is yet again ... And I'm, I'm at a point where it's pretty easy, and I think the other side loves it how ou- outraged we are.
- KSKara Swisher
Mm-hmm.
- SGScott Galloway
I think a Democrat needs to sponsor and make very public legislation that says, "The government of Qatar is engaging in grift or corruption or foreign bribery." You're not supposed to accept gifts over $400 (laughs) as a public official and say that, again, "In three years and nine months, we're going to reevaluate our relationship with you based on ... Uh, we're gonna do X, Y, and Zed in exactly three years and nine months." We need to stop ... There's no stopping the Trump administration. He's weaponized the DOJ. He has neutered, he has neutered basically all checks and balances here. My attitude is go after the foreign governments and some-
- KSKara Swisher
Yeah.
- SGScott Galloway
... of the lower level people who are, who are enabling this.
- KSKara Swisher
You, you know, uh, I told you Qatar tried to buy the g- (laughs) buy our All Things D. Code con. Like, they wanted to give us $10 million each, all this stuff. I was sort of aston- This was more than 15 years ago, where they wanted us to bring our, our conference there to Qatar, and Walt was like, "You know I'm a Jew, and yeah, back Hamas." I was like (laughs) he was like, "No." Like, it was just an astonishing offer, and it was so massive. We were sort of shocked. L- largely, they wanted the technology piece. They want ... They're sort of trying to buy, um, what was it? Influencer to look good, right? We, we were sort of, uh, clean, clean-washing them in some way by going there. And there's a lot of ... By the way, there's a lot of events that go there now and do that. But I remember Walt was like, "No fucking way." Like, and it was an enormous sum of money, you know? At the time, I ... $10 million sticks in my head, but, um, we were sort of shocked by it, and astonished, and of course said no immediately. But I agree with you. This is just beyond ... I mean, the Nazis did this during right a- ahead of World War II, like, tried to, like, buy influence through their various agents, the same thing. Um, you know, very much trying to influence US policy, but, uh, this is ... I, I don't even know what this is. This is even ... What's the goal here, precisely? Uh, that's the thing, is what's their actual goal?
- SGScott Galloway
I'm still focused on the fact you don't know what religion I am.
- KSKara Swisher
I don't. What are you? You're Jewish. You're Jewish. You're partially Jew- you're half Jewish.
- SGScott Galloway
No, I'm whole Jewish. My mother was Jewish.
- KSKara Swisher
Okay.
- SGScott Galloway
Um, I'm a, I'm an atheist, but I'm a raging Zionist. I just think it's hilarious-
- KSKara Swisher
Yes.
- SGScott Galloway
... when people in the comments section call me a Zionist as if it's an insult.
- KSKara Swisher
Yeah.
- SGScott Galloway
I'm a proud Zionist.
- KSKara Swisher
Yeah. So wait, y- your mother is Jewish. What is your father?
- SGScott Galloway
Yeah, my, my, my father's Presbyterian.
- KSKara Swisher
Okay.
- SGScott Galloway
My mother, my mother, uh, uh, was a Jew.
- KSKara Swisher
Yeah.
- SGScott Galloway
Um-
Episode duration: 1:01:51
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