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Dr Rangan ChatterjeeDr Rangan Chatterjee

Life Is Short: 103-Year-Old Shares 5 Lessons For The Next 50 Years Of Your Life | Gladys McGarey

At the age of 103, not only is today’s guest the oldest I’ve ever welcomed onto my podcast, but she’s also the oldest returning guest, too!

Dr. Rangan ChatterjeehostDr. Gladys McGareyguest
Jun 12, 20241h 24mWatch on YouTube

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Transcript

  1. 0:00 – 3:48

    Living Through the Past: Gladys's Approach to Regret

    1. RC

      I've heard you say that at the age of 103 you have no regrets. Many people have a negative relationship with their past. So I'm interested to know, Gladys, what is the difference between people who live with regrets and people like yourself who don't?

    2. GM

      Well, you know, I think I have a choice. I could spend my time wr- [laughs] trying to fix something from the past or I could get on with what life is doing. Let me tell you a joke. Uh, I mean, this actually happened. [clears throat] I'd had my 99th birthday party, and I was at the grocery store. And I got my groceries, and I was taking them out to my car, and elderly gentleman came by, and he said... He greeted me and he said, uh, "Oh, may I help you?" And I said, "No, no, you don't need to. I can do this." And he stood up straight, and he said, "Well, I'm 86 years old." Well, I stood up my, my, my cart, and I said, "Well, I'm 99." And I marched off and got into my car and sat down and said, "You nasty old lady." [laughs] What a terrible thing. He was just a nice old man that was trying to do a nice thing, and you better get out of this car and go into the grocery store and apologize to him because that was a terrible thing to do. And then I got to thinking about what it was, [laughs] and I got to laughing 'cause I thought... I said to myself, "Do you... Uh, uh, t-two kindergarten kids in the, uh, you know, trying to ou- outdo each other." And I got to laughing so hard I couldn't get out of the car, and I finally said, "You know what's gonna really happen is he's gonna go home, and he's gonna say to his wife, 'You know what happened? I tried to help an o- old lady, and that nasty old lady...'" And he goes... Uh, and so I thought the two of them would have a good laugh about it at home. I have the laughing bout in my car, and I didn't need to go and try and fix it. Now, w- so what I'm s- telling this is there are times when we do things that we regret, and we can spend a lot of time trying to fix them, and it may be totally unnecessary because it may be just a process that needs to be gone through in order to live through it and not just get over it. So, [clears throat] so my thoughts are that if there are things, if, I mean, [laughs] there are many things that I would rather have not had happen, but they happened. If I can live through those, not just try to get over them, but live through them, understand them, do what I need to, and then go on with my life, uh, they're not going to hold me back. You know, it's sort of like having a bag of heavy things on your shoulder, and if you keep looking at them all the time, you're gonna get a stiff neck. It, it... You can't... You have to g- let that stuff be where it is and get on with your life. You don't have to, but this is what I like- I'm trying to do.

    3. RC

      Do you think, Gladys, you've always had that ability to let go of things in the past and move on, or was it something you developed at some point during your life?

    4. GM

      Um, [clears throat]

  2. 3:48 – 10:12

    The Frog Play and a Mother's Lesson in Laughter

    1. GM

      I think my mother helped me develop this. I had a- an amazing mother, but when I was in, in grade school, I had to repeat first grade twice because I couldn't read or write. I was the class dummy. I was the, the stupid one in the class. The teacher called me the dumb one, and, and the kids... So, so I was that. So I was... My self-image as a, a small child was very, uh, damaged [clears throat] because I thought... Now, not at home. At home everything was, [laughs] got patched up and worked okay.

    2. RC

      Mm-hmm.

    3. GM

      But in school, it was terrible. I was very unhappy and very hurt and very broken and all of that. But when I got into third grade, the teacher there saw something in me that the first grade teacher had not seen. She realized that I couldn't read or write. She didn't know why, I guess. But the... I couldn't do it, but I could talk, so she appointed me as class governor. [laughs] So I got to take things that our class did to the whole student body. So it put me in a wh- whole different category, so in that category I was accepted, and I could do it. So the... As part of that whole process, there was a play, and the play was the ca- the A Frog Jumped Over the Pond, and I was... And we were to take that play to the whole student body. Well, since I was the tallest one in the class now since I had to repeat the first grade, uh, I was chosen to be the frog. And so the w- idea was that there was a pan of water, and I was able to jump over that pan of water and d- go on with the play. It was a whole, uh, play that we were gonna do for the student body. Well, I was very confident because my mother had made me a, a frog suit and dyed it green and all of that, and I was sure I could do this and I could do it just fine. So I walked out with great confidence onto the stage, and the whole student body was there, and I walk onto the stage. But just as I look down at the audience, I see my two older brothers in the first line, or the first row of the, of the s- student body. And it just threw me off my step enough that when I jumped over the pond, I didn't jump over it, I jumped into it. So I landed in the pond, not over the pond. And the student body was hysterical. They were laughing so hard, and I was standing in the pond. My suit... My mother had used very... [laughs] some cheap dye, so my suit was beginning to fade, and I was crying. I couldn't move. I was totally broken. I had ju- you know, this was the end of everything. The world had ended. I was done. I couldn't get out of the pond. The teacher had to come and get me, take me off the stage, and go on with the whole thing. But the student body was hysterical. They were laughing so hard ab- a- about what had happened. So when we got home that night, my brothers are telling the family w- this whole scene. I'm giving them the devil's eye, and they're not paying attention to me. But they are telling this, and finally my mother says to them, "All right, boys. Now, you've had your fun. What can we as a family do so that if something like this ever happens to Gladys again, she'll be able to get the people to laugh with her, not at her?" And whatever it was that we as a family did at that time really, really changed things, because I've had so many times when I've stumbled or something has happened and, and I, you know, some process getting onto the stage, but I could always find something funny to say so that the student... so that the audience was in my hands before I ever started my lecture. So it was something that I, I was blessed with this mother who had the ability to take things that were difficult and painful and twist them just enough to get some humor out of them.

    4. RC

      Yeah.

    5. GM

      And it, it [laughs] , it saved my life. It saved my career. It saved all kinds of things. So yes.

    6. RC

      Yeah. That's a wonderful story. Thank you for sharing it. You know, it's interesting hearing that. As a parent myself, it makes me think of h- it makes me think how important the little things that we do with our kids are every-

    7. GM

      Oh

    8. RC

      ... time they go through adversity. The way we interact with them, the things that we say to them can have quite a profound impact on how they view obstacles and adversity for the rest of their life. So I guess, Gladys, as a parent myself, and my children at the moment are 13 and 11, I know you have got kids, grandkids, great-grandkids. In the context of that lesson, I wonder what kind of advice you would have to a parent like me, or any parent frankly, as to what are some of the key things that we should be thinking about doing with our own children?

  3. 10:12 – 13:51

    Parenting and Listening to Children's Inner Knowing

    1. GM

      For my children, the, the son of mine, John, when he was seven he came into the living room one day and he said, "I wish Jesus was here." And I said, "Oh, well, I do too. Why, why you?" And he said, "Because I have questions." And I said, "Well, try me." He says, "You don't have those answers." And I said, "Well, maybe I have something. Try me." And so he says, "All right." [laughs] And he says, "How can God be if he never got started?" And I said, "Oh. [laughs] All right. Well, maybe it's like a circle. It doesn't have a beginning and an end." He says, "I knew you didn't have the answers," and he goes running off. But of course he turned into a pr- a minister. He's a retired Presbyterian minister. It's that he was giving me that information about where he wanted to go with his life. And my next son came in one day and he says... He was four, and he says, "I know something. I know something." And I said, "Well, what's yours?" He says, "If I make a friend and he makes a friend and he makes a friend, it's gonna go all around the world and come back to me." Of course he's a psychologist. You know? [laughs] It's that kind of being aware of what these amazing new souls that come in are bringing with them as their, not just luggage, but their heritage and what their dream is and who they think they are. And for me, it's been a, just a- Not just an eye-opening event in my life when these things happen. It's been a pure joy

    2. RC

      Mm

    3. GM

      And now it's happening with my great-grandkids. It's just great. If you look for what these children are really saying, ooh, boy, what they say.

    4. RC

      Yeah. It's so profound that it, it... You know, I, I hear that, and I'm, I'm reflecting on so much this idea that our kids know what they're here to do perhaps even at that young age. And perhaps as adults, we, we don't allow them to nourish that part of themselves, and so it gets suppressed down. It kinda reminds me of the first secret in your book, The Well-Lived Life, you know, these six secrets that you talk about. The first one is you are here for a reason. Now, that story with your two children absolutely speaks to that, that they were seemingly showing you what that reason was at a very young age through the questions they were asking you. But why did you start your book with secret one, you are here for a reason, and this idea that our purpose is really, really important? Because I think purpose, Gladys, is something that m- more and more people are talking about these days. But I think for some people, it's getting really, really confusing. So, you know, broad question to you, what is purpose, and why is it so important that we find our own?

  4. 13:51 – 21:41

    Purpose: Why We're Here and the Power of Choice

    1. GM

      Because purpose is what feeds your soul. And our inner knowing knows why you're here. And if you try to pay attention to that, you, uh... It's amazing. Now, let me tell you about my great-grandkid. [laughs] This just happened. Now it's another story. May I tell another story?

    2. RC

      Please, please. I, I'm enjoying your stories.

    3. GM

      Well, they ta- Sometimes... Well, for me anyway, stories tell more than a long dissertation about, um, you know, so on. Anyway, I have a, a, a five-year-old grand- great-grandson by the name of Ian, and he... His mother told us last week that Ian was standing with two of his, uh, friends. There was a little girl and a little boy. They're five years old. So the little boy, and little girl, and Ian, who is five years old, and they have in front of them a little dish. And in this dish are some nickels, and dimes, and pennies, and so on. Because this group of little children and their teacher have put th- this money together to send to somebody, I don't know who, um, I don't know that the kids knew who, but somebody had... needed to have a well, and they didn't have enough money to, to dig for a well. So they were collecting money in this little dish for the... To send to the people that, uh, uh, need- were going to dig a well. And when they had, had finished putting all the, not nickels and dimes in and stuff, the little girl said, "Should we pray?" And the little boy s- standing next to her said, "I don't think we can pray." And I- Ian, standing beside them, said, "Of course we can pray. God's all around us. Let us pray." [laughs] So, you know, these... If you give the people who are coming in, um, the opportunity to let you know what it is that they're thinking and what they're reaching for, they'll reach further. If we, if we shut it down, oh, that's, that's sad.

    4. RC

      Yeah.

    5. GM

      So let's, let's pay attention to them 'cause they've got m- messages not just for themselves but for the rest of us.

    6. RC

      For someone who perhaps is, you know, an adult-

    7. GM

      Yeah

    8. RC

      ... they are working, maybe they've even retired, and they feel that that inner knowing was suppressed when they were a child-

    9. GM

      Uh-huh

    10. RC

      ... and that they have lived a life that wasn't true to them. I mean, one of the key, one of the key learnings I get from studying your book and your life is that it is never too late to change course.

    11. GM

      No.

    12. RC

      But for that-

    13. GM

      That's right

    14. RC

      ... for that person who is struggling and thinks, "Well, that's all very well if you have parents who allow you to speak your truth-

    15. GM

      Right

    16. RC

      ... and find your purpose, but I didn't have that. I don't have it now. I don't like my job. I don't like my life," how can they use this idea of yours that you are here for a reason to help them improve their own life?

    17. GM

      Well, nobody can choose for you, unless you allow them to choose for you, what it is that you want to be and what you want to do. I mean, we, you know, we as human beings have the opportunity and actually the responsibility to choose what our, our direction is and what we're going to pay attention to. See, I have this kinda... This isn't a theology or anything. It's just kind of an idea I have in my mind. God, whatever God is to any one of us, created the universe. It was perfect. Everything was right the way it was supposed to be. It was do- r- running the way it was supposed to be and all of that. And then he created, he, she, created the human being and said to us, "Now, look at this universe. It's perfect. Everything's just the way it's supposed to be. It's perfect. But you're the only creation which has free will and choice, and I am now creating you, and you have free will and free choice, and you're the only living entity on, on this whole universe that has tho- that quality. So therefore, I give you dominion over the Earth, or over the, the, the, the universe, actually, the whole thing." And we, in our arrogance, thought he said dominance. So we took over. You know, if we have dominance, oh boy, we can do this. Look what we've done to Mother Earth and to the universe. And we're the only ones who have free choice, so we can either go on destroying or we can take what's there, and by our ability with the free choice and free will, recreate and do what we can to reclaim the way the universe is, which is perfect.

    18. RC

      Mm-hmm.

    19. GM

      But it's, it's that ability of using our own, each one of us. And so it's not just for the universe, but for ourselves. Are we going to go on, um, making it as bad and worse and so on because we, we have the idea that we have dominance over the Earth? Then we're, we're, we're mistaken, and we need to relook at who we are as human beings and take over the responsibility that we have, reclaim that, and, and do something for Mother Earth.

    20. RC

      Yeah.

    21. GM

      To try and, you know... And there are a lot of people who are doing a lot of work, so I'm, I'm not cri- criticizing what we're doing. But we can start fixing things that were, that were, uh, damaged, that we didn't know any better.

    22. RC

      Yeah. I mean, there's this idea, isn't there, that y- you talk about a lot, you write about a lot, that we have choice. We have choice at where we direct our life energy, and I think that's what you're speaking to a little bit there, that all of us have a little bit of choice at least where we direct our life energy.

  5. 21:41 – 28:49

    Finding Purpose in Everything You Do and the Five Ls

    1. RC

      Now, where this gets complicated, I think, or where I think these days the whole idea of purpose can sometimes get confusing for people, is that they may think, "Okay, well, you know, I loved art when I was a child. But my parents said, 'You can't be an artist. You have to get a real job and do art on the side,'" for example, right?

    2. GM

      Yeah.

    3. RC

      Now, you could argue that their parents were wrong by not allowing their children to pursue art. Or you could flip it and go, "Well, maybe their parents were right. Maybe the job that they do now allows them to feed their family, feed their children, and they can pursue art on the side." So my broader thought, and I've been thinking about this all day in preparation for this conversation with you, Gladys, is-

    4. GM

      [laughs]

    5. RC

      ... I've been thinking about purpose. And you say in your book we're all here for a reason. But is it that we need to find things to do that are aligned with our purpose, or is it not that we need to find purpose in everything that we do?

    6. GM

      I think it's both. I think it's more, uh, productive to find purpose in everything that we do. If we're in a situation where we had to do a certain thing, find out the best way in which we can do that, and m- allow that to come into our purpose. In other words, we take what, what's, what's coming towards us and... Well, sort of like my story about the going into the grocery store and, uh, or not. You know? If, if, if we have something that we can take either to go and correct the, the issue or see how it lines up with what we are doing within our purpose, because that would've taken me... If I'd gone in to try and correct it and try and find the family and so on, it would've taken me clear off of my purpose for that day.

    7. RC

      Okay.

    8. GM

      And so it's, it's, it's a matter of choice. And if we can find something that allows the thing that we've done that was not [laughs] the, certainly not the good thing to do, but if we can find a way in taking that- And allow it to align itself with where it is that we're in the process of doing, which is our purpose. Then we keep going.

    9. RC

      Yeah, it makes me think that maybe our purpose is less about the things that we do-

    10. GM

      Uh-huh

    11. RC

      ... but more about the attitude we bring to those things.

    12. GM

      Absolutely. Because that's what li- life and love are. Because, you know, the five Ls that I did, they help me to sort of put a, a kind of a foundation on how to use the purpose and so on.

    13. RC

      Oh, I'd love to hear them. Please sh- please share those five Ls.

    14. GM

      The first two are life and love. The first two have to go together. They... Life and love are, are like a m- a pregnant mother. When, when sh- when we're pregnant, um, everything we eat, the baby eats. Everything we think, the baby thinks. So throughout that pregnancy, m- we are one unit, the mother and the baby that growing within her. So we're manifesting this whole process as, as, uh, as a woman a- and the baby. But the moment the baby is born and takes his first breath, he becomes a separate unit. So life and love have to grow together, and then the part that is the o- one that, that needs to step forward, which is life. Life needs to grow. It steps forward and becomes the new entity. But the starting part of them is together. So life and love have to be one unit that grows into its own. The third one is laughter. Laughter without love is cruel. It breaks up family. It's cold. It causes wars. It's terrible. But laughter with love is joy and happiness. The fourth one is labor. Ugh, I've gotta go to work. This is too hard. Too many diapers, and all of that. And we just drag ourselves through it. But labor with love is bliss. It's what you... Why you're doing what you're doing. It's why I'm doing what I'm doing. It's what makes our heart sing.

    15. RC

      Mm-hmm.

    16. GM

      It's, it's, it lifts us up. It's, it's just really important to us. Labor with love. And the fifth one is listening. Listening without love is empty sound, but listening with love is understanding. And for me, these five Ls have helped to, um, direct and allow me to make choices and so on in ways that have been very r- have been productive and, and live... So that I can live through my process, not just try to get over it.

    17. RC

      Yeah. Thank you for sharing those, those five Ls. Life, love, laughter, labor, and listening. Um-

    18. GM

      Yes

    19. RC

      ... yeah, really, really great little short ditty for us to think about. The third one was laughter, and it struck me right at the start of this conversation, Gladys, as you were telling stories about your children and your grandchildren. You were laughing a lot. There was a really cheeky sense of humor as you were telling these stories, particularly the one of you in the parking lot with that-

    20. GM

      Yeah. [laughs]

    21. RC

      ... 88-year-old gentleman who you called at 99 an elderly man, which I found really, really fascinating.

    22. GM

      [laughs]

  6. 28:49 – 33:47

    Humor and Resilience Learned from Her Mother

    1. RC

      But it reminds me of a conversation I had with, um, Bronnie Ware. I'm not sure if you're familiar with Bronnie. She wrote a book called The Five Regrets of the Dying. She was a palliative care nurse, and she documented what were the common regrets of people on their deathbeds. And when I spoke to her on this podcast, we had the most gorgeous conversation, Gladys. I asked her, "Did everyone have regrets? And if not, what were the qualities that you saw in people who were on their deathbed with no regrets?" Now, she identified three qualities. One of them was laughter. She said the ones who didn't have any regrets had a strong sense of humor. You appear to be someone, to me at least, who has a strong sense of humor. How important do you think that laughter, that cheeky sense of humor is for you to live to the ripe old age of 103?

    2. GM

      It's what my mother taught me, you know? The story about, uh, the, uh, jumping over the pond and, and getting people to laugh with you and not at you. At my young age, that was pivotal.

    3. RC

      Wow.

    4. GM

      And it's, it's, uh, gone with me all through my life because it did with my mother, and it did with my brothers, you know? [laughs] It was, it was her example of living her life.

    5. RC

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    6. GM

      My mother was a, an osteopath. She w- got her osteopathic license i- in 1913. Women didn't do such things, you know, but, um, she was an osteopath. But she went to India, uh, on my dad's passport. She was not [laughs] she was not considered a, a, actually a person. She was part of his luggage. So she, you know, she did what she did. She didn't, um, take, uh, offense at that because there wasn't any sense in taking offense. You know, you do what you have to do. It's sort of like when I got a opportunity to have an internship in Deaconess Hospital in, in Cincinnati, but when I got there, there wasn't any p- place for me in the hospital. Uh, they'd never had a woman doctor before. There was no place for me to sleep. The guys all had a room and a bathroom and all, but there wasn't anything. But I got an x-ray table and a pillow a- and a blanket, and I used it because for me, I, I wasn't gonna complain about this because at least I'd gotten in the door.

    7. RC

      Mm.

    8. GM

      So you take what you can take and use it for what you can use it for, and then you go on with the process of life, which is life living the way you need to live it. So, but my mother was, was my teacher on that. She was just... Sh- she could [laughs] like for inst- the... Three days before she died, when she was 89, she fell and broke her le- leg and so on. She and my dad and I were sitting out on our back porch, and she looks at the, at a plant in the garden and she says to my dad, "Look at that petunia plant. It must have 400 b- blossoms on it." And my [laughs] dad said, "Oh, Beth, doesn't have more than 40." She says, "What's another zero?" You know, it's the ability to take things that come your way and just tuck a little bit of humor into it, and it changes everything.

    9. RC

      You know,

  7. 33:47 – 38:56

    Aging Into Health Rather Than Anti-Aging

    1. RC

      one of the hottest topics in health at the moment, Gladys, is anti-aging. I don't know how much you follow this field of research, but it's a big thing these days, you know, people trying to... Well, first of all, they're trying to make sure that they live with good mobility and good cognitive function as they get older. Some people are also trying to extend human life. Now, as a 103-year-old who's been practicing medicine, I think, for what, 70, 80 years, something like that-

    2. GM

      Mm-hmm

    3. RC

      ... which is, you know, pretty remarkable, I'm fascinated. Throughout your life, did you think about, what can I do to make sure I live past 100? Or is this something that has just happened? I guess what I'm asking-

    4. GM

      No

    5. RC

      ... is, have you got to this age because of your lifestyle or in spite of your lifestyle?

    6. GM

      Be both. But, uh, actually, I [laughs] I don't like the, the anti-aging thing. I'm calling it aging into health.

    7. RC

      What does that mean?

    8. GM

      In other words, growing into health. You know, I, I feel like there are parts of my life that are healthier now than it have ever been. I can't see. I'm, I'm, uh, legally blind. I h- my hearing is bad. I have to use hearing aids. I can't walk without a walker. I mean, you know, there are lots of things I can't do. But there... I'm talking to people around the world. I mean, is, is this possible? So I call it aging into health. I can do things now that I couldn't, I've never been able to do before. I mean, how, how can I talk to you, you know? In England, and with all of this is coming together now because I'm still alive, so I'm, in my mind, I'm aging into health. Now, the health that I'm aging into is something that I couldn't have done when I was 95.

    9. RC

      Yeah.

    10. GM

      So let's look at this. [laughs]

    11. RC

      Yeah. As you were saying that, I thought, when you were my age, in your mid-40s, I wasn't even alive. It's, it's [laughs] just fascinating to think about. I wasn't even alive when you were my age right now. And, um, it, it's, it's a really interesting concept, that ageing into health. I don't know what your perspective is on this, Gladys, or how this may have changed over the years, but I would say the pulse of society these days, certainly in the UK, is that ageing is often seen as a negative thing. Oh, I'm getting older-

    12. GM

      Oh, yeah

    13. RC

      ... my skin isn't as good as it was, my hair's getting a bit white. What- whatever it might be, there's a negative connotation to the idea-

    14. GM

      Yeah

    15. RC

      ... of ageing. But you saying, with a smile on your face, ageing into health, that's quite a positive outlook on ageing, isn't it?

    16. GM

      Oh, uh, absolutely. I acknowledge the disabilities that my body i- is, is working with because I, as Gladys McGarey, am working s- with them because I've got assistance. I mean, [laughs] I- if I hadn't had the, the, um, people who could f- you know, fit me with those things that fit me so that I can do the things that I can do, uh, I, I, I'd be immobile or w- whatever. I don't know. But, but it's finding the things that you can do, because you're gonna do 'em [laughs] no matter what, one way or another. And it's, it's because they... In, in your gut, in the inner g- part of you, you know that you've still got work to do. And if you've still got work to do, then you find a way that you can cooperate and, uh, uh, line up with other people. I couldn't even begin to do what I'm doing here if I didn't have my son John here with me.

    17. RC

      Yeah.

    18. GM

      You know? Uh, he, [laughs] he can do the things that I can't do because, uh, I'm, uh, 103 and be, be 104, and he's just 75, and you know, he's a young spurt. So.

    19. RC

      Yeah.

    20. GM

      [laughs]

  8. 38:56 – 45:08

    Never Too Old to Learn: Finding Her Voice at 93

    1. RC

      Well, that's one of the, the beautiful things when I reflect on your life. You know, I, I went for a walk at lunchtime, Gladys, a- and I [laughs] I'll share with you what went through my mind. You know, I take the attitude of curiosity to pretty much everything I do. I'm always looking to learn from every experience, positive or negative. One of the reasons I resonate so much with your book is because I share a lot of those philosophies myself, and I didn't have some of them maybe 10 or 15 years ago. So I think now in my mid-40s, I look back on me in my mid-30s and go, "Well, you didn't really know that much then, did you, Rangan? Come on, you're so much wiser than you were just 10 years ago." Now, that's how I feel today. But I'm thinking-

    2. GM

      Yeah

    3. RC

      ... if you take the attitude of curiosity towards your life, as long as you are alive, does that keep happening? Am I gonna think at 55, "Oh man, in your 40s, Rangan, you didn't know much, did you? You know so much more now." And will that keep going? Do, do, do you get what I'm getting at?

    4. GM

      Yes, I do, because it all depends on what you want. I found my voice when I was, what, 93? Something like that. Because, [laughs] you know, when I was a kid, I was a dumbbell. I was... I, I, I, my psyche was traumatized with that idea that I was stupid, okay? Uh, well, I had lived all of those years. I'd, um, written books, I'd done lectures, I'd raised my kids. I had all these thi- But all the time, I looked for somebody else to, to help me understand that what I had written or what I had said was okay. In other words, I'd write an article that was going to be published, and I'd ask my, uh, secretary to check it through and make sure that it was... Or, or somebody. In other words, I was always second-guessing what I had written.

    5. RC

      Mm.

    6. GM

      And then I had a dream when I was 93, and in this dream I woke up laughing and singing. And when I stepped into the dream, w- which I was s- sort of in and out of, I saw myself as s- nine-year-old Gladys in the jungles of North India, she, j- just peeking through the temp- uh, the tent flap, making sure my brother wasn't out there, because he would tattle on me and I'd be in, in trouble. Because in our family, on the Sabbath day, we didn't sing anything but hymns and bhajans. Bhajans are, were Indian hymns. We weren't allowed to sing anything but those, and I thought it was a stupid rule, and I was gonna break it, and I knew I was gonna break it. And if Gordon, my younger brother, was there, he'd ta- tattle on me and I'd be in trouble. He wasn't anywhere around, so as fast as I could I ran to the mango tree and climbed clear up to the top. And I'm sitting at the top of a mango tree, and I'm singing. Ha- I mean, I'm singing everything I, I could think of, The Caterpillar Song or other song. You know, and I'm just having a great time. But every so often, I look over my left sh- my right shoulder, and Jesus is up in the tree with me. And I look over my right shoulder, and I say to him, "Jesus loves the little children, right?" And he's laughing, and he says, "Yes." So I go back to my singing, and I'm still going on. And then I get to th- second-guessing myself again, and I say, "Did he really say it was okay?" So I look back over my shoulder, and I say, "I'm still a little child, right?" He says, "Yes." And so I go back to my singing. Uh, and I say, "Jesus loves the little children, right?" And, and, uh, he says, "Yes." So then I go back to my singing, and I... That's when I question it again. But that, w- at that point, I woke up, and I was singing and, um, laughing at the same time, and said to myself, "For pity sakes, if Jesus can accept you, why can't you accept yourself?" And so after that, I stopped the business of having to, uh, second g- have somebody else check what, every thing I was doing. So, you know, you're never too old to learn.

    7. RC

      Yeah.

    8. GM

      It's, if you give yourself a chance to keep growing. And, um, uh, when I was in my 40s, let's see, what was I doing? I was in full practice, helping women birth babies, created the Baby Buggy program, and all of that. My, raising my f- uh, six children, and just having a, a life that was so busy that, um, it was... I just had to do the next thing that came up.

    9. RC

      Would you say then, Gladys, that there are things you know now at the age of 103 that perhaps you didn't know at the age of, let's say, 97, five years ago?

    10. GM

      Absolutely. I, I, I tell you, I learn something every day. Something surprises me every day.

    11. RC

      Yeah.

  9. 45:08 – 51:33

    Purpose, Choosing the Day, and the Plant That Reached James

    1. RC

      I can't help but thinking your attitude towards life is one of the main reasons why you seem to be thriving past the age of 100. There are two... I mean, I, I was gonna say two elderly ladies who live near to me that I know. I kind of struggle to say that in front of you [laughs] at 103, because these ladies are probably in their late 70s, early 80s. So I don't know if they sound elderly to you, or they actually sound quite young to you. But what I've noticed about them, one is my piano teacher when I was a kid, right? So she taught me and my brother how to play piano. She was teaching me when I was four years old. She is now teaching my children. She's teaching-

    2. GM

      Yeah

    3. RC

      ... them singing. And she's full every night. You know, after kids finish school, she has got back-to-back kids that she is teaching. Now, I don't know her exact age, but I can't help but thinking the reason she's so fit and mobile and active and sharp, possibly into her late 70s, early 80s, is because she has a purpose. She loves teaching children how to sing, how to play piano, and she's still actively engaging in that. One of these other ladies that I know, she hosts a, a performing speaking festival for children. And last year when my kids were there, I remember on the Saturday night when, you know, the kids who'd won various events were actually all performing, I was chatting to her, and I think she's 84. And she said, "I've been thinking about the order tonight, of tonight's show all day. I've been trying to think what would be the, the right balance for everything to give everyone a really special evening." And then I think about the longevity movement, or I should call it the anti-aging movement, that I've already mentioned, and I've spoken to many of these experts on this podcast before. But I can't help thinking we're missing something massive. We're reducing it down to biochemical markers, blood sugar, you know, lipids, all kinds of things in blood tests, which I'm not saying are not important.

    4. GM

      [laughs]

    5. RC

      But what's the point of perfect blood results if you have no reason to get up and live every day? You know, that, that's-

    6. GM

      Absolutely

    7. RC

      ... it's gotta be the most important thing. I'm sure of it.

    8. GM

      [laughs] I have a cr- a really good friend. I've known her for years and years. She's in her 90s. [coughs] And, um, the other day, she said to me, "Oh, I get up in the morning, and I think, 'Not another day.'" And I almost cried, because I get up in the morning, and I think, "Wow, another day." You know? Because it's, to me, um, it's my choice as to whether I'm going to live this day or just drag myself through it. And I don't wanna just drag myself. I've done enough of that. So it's, it's a matter of choosing what it is that you want to do. And, and you know, the choice can be the littlest thing. Let me tell you j- [laughs] another story, okay?

    9. RC

      [laughs]

    10. GM

      Wonderful friend. Uh, he was a family friend for years, and he ha- ate dinner with us m- a lot of the time, and so, a bachelor. Just a great guy, and we all... All the kids loved him. We loved him. And so then he moved into dementia, and he wasn't, uh, wasn't understanding anything. And so we found a lovely home where we could have him taken care of and, and all of that, and, and we did what we could. And one day, uh, one week, I took a little plant over to him, and it was a little, in a little pot, a little green plant. And, uh, and when I came in, I said, "Now, James, here's a gift for you. This plant is going to love you, and as you love it and let it have water and, uh, take care of it, it's going to love you." And I don't know what I said, but I talked like that to him, and he's just not paying any attention. He didn't under- As far as I was concerned, looked like he wasn't understanding anything. But I went on through my little spiel, and I put the little plant in the window and gave it some water, and then, and then I, I left. And a week later, I came back, and he met me at the door. And he says, "Magic, magic." And I said, "Whoa, what?" And he says, "Look, box." And he goes over to the, uh, uh, air conditioning box on the wall, and he says, "Push this button, everything cool. Plant loves cool. Push this button, everything hot. Plant doesn't like hot." And I thought, "Here we are." I didn't think he would be able to really understand anything that I had said to him, and maybe he didn't understand anything I said to him, but that plant got through to him. And when he took care of that plant, he understood something about what his life was still doing. And to me, [laughs] that was just like, "Wow, James, I think this is just wonderful." [laughs]

    11. RC

      Wow.

  10. 51:33 – 59:02

    Happiness, Connection Across Generations, and Life's Transitions

    1. RC

      What does the word happiness mean to you, Gladys?

    2. GM

      Everything. Joy, happiness. It's a, it's a choice. Uh, uh, [laughs] you know, my name is Gladys, and when I was in college, my sorority sisters called me Happy Bottom Gladys. [laughs] Anyway, I, I shouldn't have said this on the air, but-

    3. RC

      [laughs]

    4. GM

      ... uh, erase that thing.

    5. RC

      Oh, it's fine.

    6. GM

      [laughs]

    7. RC

      I, there's that cheekiness throughout everything you say. I, I absolutely love it.

    8. GM

      Well, the point is that, you know, you take what you have, and you use it in the way that serves y- you best and serves the people that you are working with, with best. And I love the whole process of working with the little people.

    9. RC

      Mm.

    10. GM

      I mean, they need us as older people, and we need them. The sweetest thing happened. Uh, my great-granddaughter was here visiting me fr- from California, and I was sitting in my chair. And I didn't under- q- quite understand what was happening because I felt something weird on my neck, and I finally realized that she, as a little six-year-old, was just trying to feel my neck. And sh- her little fingers were just going up and... And I was so thrilled-

    11. RC

      Mm

    12. GM

      ... to have that actual connection where this-

    13. RC

      Yeah

    14. GM

      ... little great-grandchild is m- making contact with me in a loving way that has no words.

    15. RC

      Yeah. You've obviously navigated lots of transitional periods in your life-

    16. GM

      Mm-hmm

    17. RC

      ... right? You know-

    18. GM

      Yeah

    19. RC

      ... before you were a mother, you become a mother. Um, y- your career. You know, I know last time you came on my show, you shared, uh, the situation leading up to your divorce at the age of 70. So these transitional periods in our life, I think many people struggle to navigate. One thing I've seen a lot with patients over the years is, you know, empty nest syndrome when, let's say, a mother has devoted her life to bringing up her children, and then the kids leave home. I've seen many times people struggle with that to kind of successfully navigate that transition. You're someone who's been through many, many different transitions. Have you got any advice on how people can think about them?

    20. GM

      Absolutely. What can you find that gives you, uh, that allows you to go forward? It's like when I started my internship, and I didn't even have a room, you know. I had to find a place. I, I found an X-ray table and a, and a pillow, and, and I, I didn't reject what I could find. In other words, look for what's available to you and use it to your advantage. Make it become something that is useful to what you're doing at the time, because hopefully what you're doing at the time is constantly changing and growing. And as it grows and changes, you have to find other ways of adapting to it, of, of, of living it. Not just getting over it, but living it and understanding it.

    21. RC

      So therefore, is it fair to say that our purpose can continually change throughout our lives?

    22. GM

      It should grow. [clears throat] You know, b- if we're growing, our purpose grows. It's... We've put roots down. We've b- been like a tree, we've reached up. We've had blossoms, and we've had our children, and we [laughs] you know, our fruit and so on. It's a matter of taking the... You know, like right now, I could not in my farthest imagination imagine [laughs] that I could be talking to you in England the way we are. I mean, isn't this awesome?

    23. RC

      Yeah. It is. A- and talking to you really highlights how amazing this is, but it's something that we just take for granted now, that my children will take for granted, that you can, on a screen, video call a relative 4, 5,000 miles away and talk to them in high definition. But even, don't know, 25 years ago, that was kind of like science fiction. And obviously, when you were a child, this must have seemed, if someone said that, "You know, in 90 years' time, Gladys, you're gonna be able to talk to people all round the world through a screen in your kitchen," I don't know-

    24. GM

      Uh-huh

    25. RC

      ... would, would you have believed them?

    26. GM

      No. No, because I d- uh, uh, we didn't even have a telephone. And as a matter of fact, when I was born in 1920, [laughs] the only way that my dad could let my, uh, family in Cincinnati know that I was born was t- through a cablegram. So I have this cablegram upstairs. It's a sheet of paper that has, um, "Girl. Well. Taylor." That was, that's what came th- across, and they knew that, that I had been born. But the cablegram was a cable that went under the Atlantic and came up [laughs]

    27. RC

      Wow

    28. GM

      ... and every letter counted. So the... Dad paid quite a bit of money to get that cable to my grandmother in Cincinnati. You know? Isn't that, isn't that awesome?

    29. RC

      Yeah. Man, it's-

    30. GM

      [laughs]

  11. 59:02 – 1:10:34

    Medicine, the Healer Within, and Love as Medicine

    1. RC

      Something else I wanted to ask you, Gladys. As a fellow physician, you've obviously had many more years of experience than I have as a doctor, but I'm absolutely fascinated how the health landscape has changed throughout your career. So I myself, in, you know, just over two decades, I've seen quite marked changes in terms of the amount of type 2 diabetes, obesity, the amount of mental health problems we're seeing relative to when I started practicing is quite profound. You have got a much longer timeframe to draw from. You know, what kind of things have you seen change over the years in medicine?

    2. GM

      Technology has changed, but, but I pray that the real reason we became physicians hasn't changed. In other words... Well, let me tell you another story. [laughs] My eldest son is a retired orthopedic surgeon, and when he came through Phoenix, he said to me... He was just on his way d- down to Del Rio, Texas, where he was gonna start his practice of orthopedics, and he came through and he said, "Mom, I'm real scared. I'm, I'm gonna have people's lives in my hands. I don't know that I can handle that." And I said to him, "Well, Carl, if you think that you're the one who does the healing, you have a right to be scared. But if you can understand that the patient that you're working with has within them a colleague for you- They have within them the actual healing physician, who is the person who takes what you're doing and saying and working with, and create within that patient the understanding of what it is that needs to be done. It's a, a living, cooperative, uh, relationship of colleagues. Because each patient that we have has that colleague within them. Because you can do everything that you have been trained to do, and it's awesome. Believe me, if I have something broken, I don't want somebody who doesn't know what they're doing trying to fix it. But to have somebody who... A trained orthopedic surgeon there to do the fixing, and then let the actual healing within me do the healing. In other words, Carl could do the fixing of things, but then how do you make it work?

    3. RC

      Mm-hmm.

    4. GM

      And the w- the way it works is w- is as the patient takes in and understands, because what you've been doing is with love, reaching that person's-

    5. RC

      Mm-hmm

    6. GM

      ... inner being and sharing with them how you would see this working. And it becomes a, uh, ongoing relationship-

    7. RC

      Mm. Yeah

    8. GM

      ... that is based in love. Because in the, in the long run, love is the great healer.

    9. RC

      Yeah.

    10. GM

      It's what really, really does the healing.

    11. RC

      Yeah, I love hearing your wisdom there. I think many of us leave medical school thinking that we've been given the tools we need to fix our patients. But actually, what I've learned over the years is, is, just as you beautifully said, is that we don't really do the fixing.

    12. GM

      Mm-hmm.

    13. RC

      We just help facilitate or create a space and an environment for the patient internally to find the resources they need to heal. I really do believe that more and more, particularly with these sort of more chronic, um, conditions, as opposed to the acute sort of leg break that you might be talking about, for example.

    14. GM

      Right. Right. No, yes, I, I agree with you, you know? I think the heart of our job as physicians remains love. Because in the long run, that's what really does the healing. You know, I've, I've had patients that I've sent to a, a, a specialist some, f- f- you know, for r- one reason or another, and the patient has come back and said, "They didn't even listen to me." And, uh, when they, when I hear that from a patient about one of my colleagues, this makes me very sad. Because if we don't listen to what the patient is telling us, how in the world are we gonna know what they really are doing, and what's really, uh, happening within them?

    15. RC

      The third lesson you write about is all about love. Love is the most powerful medicine.

    16. GM

      Right.

    17. RC

      And there's a very powerful bit at the start of that section, Gladys, that I'd like to read to you. "There were plenty of patients whom I struggled to like, and I'm sure the same is true of my parents with the patients they treated. But if I can't love someone, I consider it my problem, not the other person's, so I'd find a way to love them anyway." So, what's the difference, then, between liking a patient and loving a patient? And why is loving that patient so important?

    18. GM

      Well, because it's... Love is a... We have to live and love, or we don't understand. [laughs] You know? If, uh, if a, if a child has, has not experienced love in their home, it's very difficult for them to understand love in the outer world. And a lot of times, the, the person who is, is not likable is a person who has not been loved enough that they can really experience the process of loving. And, uh, so it's, it's that kind of a understanding. Uh, if you reach to a person who is really an ugly person in the way they act, uh, just try not to get entangled with the ugliness of it, and find, see if you can find something that is, uh, at least acceptable in [laughs] that person, and, and work with it i- if you're going to have to work with them. Otherwise, you bless them and, and, and let them go on about their work and doing what they need to do. Because each life, each day is each person's l- life choice, and how they're going to ... And so if, if I can accept them to be who they are, and just respond to who I, uh- [clears throat] can see in them, maybe I'll be able to reach to them in a way that they'll be able to respond in a more loving way. But maybe they won't.

    19. RC

      Well, why is that important though? Why couldn't you just see a patient and go, "You know what? I don't really like the way this patient is behaving. I don't like what they seem to stand for, but I'm gonna be professional and do my job as a doctor." Why, why is it important that you do find part of your being that can love that patient if you're going to truly help them?

    20. GM

      Because maybe that person never had somebody to love them. And maybe, uh... It's like I... When I was in active practice, I hugged everybody that came through my door. I, I... Big husky men [laughs] and little tiny children. For me, I, I... It was important to actually make that kind of contact. And, and so people knew I was doing that. It was something that I wanted to do, and I made the contact, and that's the way it was. So [clears throat] um, a- and everybody can't do that. I, I'm not saying that's what, what every doctor should do. It's just that I happen to b- be a mother figure to a lot of people, and it w- it was acceptable. So I didn't always do that. It was after I... Oh, I don't know when I started doing it. Anyway.

    21. RC

      Yeah.

    22. GM

      [laughs]

    23. RC

      I- it's interesting you say that, of course, that patient who is displaying behaviors that you perhaps aren't a huge fan of, it's the compassionate approach, isn't it? To say, "Well, maybe that person has never experienced love. They've never had it-"

    24. GM

      Yeah

    25. RC

      ... "from their parents. So of course they're gonna come from a place of fear, and maybe be attacking people and doing stuff, because they never had that." So I guess the follow-up to that is, how important is self-love, the ability to love and be compassionate to ourselves?

    26. GM

      It's essential. We, we [clears throat] need to recognize that, um, we're as vulnerable as everybody [laughs] else on the planet, and there are things that can hurt our feelings. And we can take those in and let them injure us, or we can do l- like my mother did and do a Kuch Bharwani. A Kuch Bharwani is it doesn't matter. You take... Somebody says something nasty or does something, you know, you can take it in and say, "Oh, that, that hurts me," in which case it does, it hurts you. Or you can let it hit your palm of your hand and just let that drop down and say, "It doesn't matter." It's not worth spending a lot of energy on. In that way, when somebody, uh, says something nice about you or to you or, or for you, you can take it in.

    27. RC

      Mm-hmm.

    28. GM

      But if... You don't have to take in everything that is said or done or created or even done in the politics of your life [laughs] and, and, and suffer from it. You can just let it go.

  12. 1:10:34 – 1:14:09

    Sharing What We Learn and Handling Bad Days

    1. RC

      Why do you think, Gladys, that so many people these days are struggling with their mental health?

    2. GM

      Oh, because it's very confusing. You know? It's hard for people to know what is a, a healthy thing to do or, or what isn't. That's why I think it's really important for those of us who understand some of these secrets of life to share them with each other. We, we... If we've learned something-

    3. RC

      Yeah

    4. GM

      ... we need to share it. If w- And women particularly, when we learn things, we need to share them. That's why I went to Afghanistan to help the w- women. When I was 86, I went there. They were... The, the, the death rate in maternity was higher in Afghanistan than any place in the world, and my brother was working with future generations, and they weren't able to even get in to do anything about that. And, um, because the men wouldn't let any man talk to their wives or talk to the women. So there was no way of finding out what was going on. So when I had the opportunity, my brother Carl gave me the opportunity to, uh, spend time with these women, and I was able to do it. And those 32 women took what they learned back to their homes and taught other women, and the maternal death rate improved within months. So that it was something that these 32 women were able to take back to their communities and teach their people, and things changed. Um, and if they don't share them, they... What, what are they gonna do with them, you know? So it's, it's, uh... My hope is that when you learn something that's a healing process and a loving process for others, you'll share it with others any way that you can.

    5. RC

      If you ever, Gladys, feel that you're having a bad day, what do you do?

    6. GM

      Well, I, I guess I identify it and s- figure out what I can, uh, do to correct it or live through it. But anyway, I, uh, it's something that I, I will not, uh, dwell upon. If it's, if it's, you know, if I had indigestion all night and woke up [laughs] w- with, not feeling good, I better do something about that and get over it. But the same thing with whatever it is that's, that, uh, uh, causing me to think that life isn't quite where it should be right now. Then I'll do something to try and understand why, and if it, any way I can put some humor into it, I will.

    7. RC

      Yeah.

  13. 1:14:09 – 1:21:38

    Daily Habits, Bluebell the Tricycle, and Rest as Action

    1. RC

      I'm interested, Gladys, personally, but also professionally as a doctor, what are some of your favorite health-promoting practices? I don't know, things like exercise, meditation, journaling, gratitude. Whatever it might be, like in your own life, are there things that you have found to be really helpful, and also what are the things that you've found to be helpful with your patients over the years?

    2. GM

      Well, I think a diet is important. I think it's important to understand the kind of diet that you can have where you are. I can't tell people what they should eat.

    3. RC

      Yeah.

    4. GM

      I don't know where they are, where they live. I don't know what the food's like there. But, you know, you can understand foods that are healthy and support your health, and if you eat those foods as fresh as possible and as, uh, you know, clean as possible and all of that. We have really great food available to us in all sorts of ways. If that's what we're looking for, we'll find it and, and do that. And then make sure you have plenty of water. You know, get the exercise that you need. I try to use my walker and walk around here all that I can, and it keeps my body moving and, and active. And, um, I also, uh, knit because I have hands that have to keep working, and so I knit little washcloths that I give away. And, you know, it's... Find something that you can do. I mean, who, who wants a washcloth? You know? I mean, that's a stupid thing, except they're kinda pretty and, and, uh, people like 'em, and so I keep on doing them. And, and, uh, you find something that, that you can do, that you can continue to do, and that people can reach for.

    5. RC

      Yeah.

    6. GM

      I try to get 80 hours of sleep at night and, um, I breathe fresh air and, and, uh, uh, I'm not going any place these days because first place I can't... I'm, I'm a liability. I trip over things and then I fall and break something, and that's not good. So it's, uh... But, but I can see, with this Zoom stuff, I can see things and do things, you know?

    7. RC

      Yeah.

    8. GM

      So you find something that you can do, that you can do, that isn't, um, a, a jeopardy to your body. I'm not allowed, my, my kids won't let me, uh, ride my tricycle anymore because the last time my tricycle threw me and I broke three ribs, so, but they're all healed now. So it's-

    9. RC

      I love how you said that, your tricycle threw you. The tricycle did it.

    10. GM

      Yeah. Uh, well, you know.

    11. RC

      [laughs]

    12. GM

      I t- turn- turned a corner with the tricycle and it was d- like a bucky horse, just threw me over onto my, uh, side. [laughs] And-

    13. RC

      Is that, is that the tricycle you got for your 102nd birthday?

    14. GM

      Uh-huh. Yeah.

    15. RC

      That, that one.

    16. GM

      It's, yeah, it's out on my porch and its name is Bluebell, and it knows that it, it was a bad Bluebell because it threw me. [laughs]

    17. RC

      Aw. It's a, it's an amazing vision that you... I've seen it online, that you got that red tricycle for your 102nd birthday.

    18. GM

      Yeah.

    19. RC

      And I think it says a lot about you and your character and the playfulness and the humor within you and that sort of can-do attitudes. Y- you mentioned earlier that you are legally blind. I know when we spoke a year ago you said something very powerful, that you may be losing your eyesight, but there's nothing wrong with your insight.

    20. GM

      Right.

    21. RC

      Which I thought was absolutely such a beautiful way of looking at it.

    22. GM

      Yeah.

    23. RC

      From what I understand, your vision has continued to decline.

    24. GM

      Yeah.

    25. RC

      What, what has that taught you? You know, one of the key senses that we attach a lot of value to is our vision. You've lost some, a lot of your vision. What has the process of losing it taught you about a good life?

    26. GM

      Well, you know, I am, I can listen to audiobooks now. I would never have listened to an audiobook when I, when I could read it. But when I can't read, I can listen to an audiobook. And [clears throat] so there are ways t- to compensate and fix it for ourselves any way that we can. And then, of course, I have this wonderful son of mine who, uh, helps me with all things that I can't read and write. And we kinda like each other, you know? So I don't think he objects to doing the things [laughs] that he's here to do with me. It's because it's something that has to be done, and, and, and, uh, we ca- we love each other and work together, so...

    27. RC

      Do you still have a daily step goal? I think in the past you said you tried to get 3,800 steps a day. Has that now changed, or are you still tracking that?

    28. GM

      Uh, it's not as much. It's b- more like 1,000 steps.

    29. RC

      But you're still moving, right? And you're... And that secret, of course, your second secret in your book is that all life needs to move.

    30. GM

      Yes. Yes, I've got this walker. His name is Skywalker, and h- he and I travel all around this property. And, uh, you know, it's, it's, it's a good thing.

  14. 1:21:38 – 1:24:31

    Her Final Message: Love Is the Great Healer

    1. RC

      Gladys, I think what you're doing is absolutely incredible. You, at the age of 100, started to write this book, which I think is inspiring for all of us. It's inspiring for anyone who thinks that life has passed them by and that it's too late now to make a change. You have shown that repeatedly in this conversation, in our first conversation together. And you're also living what you preach. You said to me that it's important that if we have learnt the secrets to a good life, it's on us. It's our obligation to share that with the world around us, and you are doing that beautifully with all the interviews you're giving and with the book that you've written. Right at the end now of our conversation, Gladys, I wanted to ask you this. When you are no longer here in this world, what is the most important message or idea that you would like to leave behind?

    2. GM

      That love is the great healer and [clears throat] that everything that I have loved and touched, that loving thought and feeling and essence goes with it. So it's, it's a matter of, uh, understanding that when, when something has been created and is a living thing, it needs to be loved. We... We're looking for how we can reach with love to touch other living things. And even the un- the, uh, inanimate things need to be touched with love. I, I mean, I love all the stuff that's in my house here. And, uh, uh, [laughs] you know, it- it's, it's, it's still something that, uh, is carrying a message in its own form that other people can understand.

    3. RC

      It's all about love. Gladys, I've loved my conversation with you. Thank you for all the work you're doing, and thank you for coming back on the show.

    4. GM

      Oh, thank you. It's been a joy.

    5. RC

      [instrumental music] If you enjoyed that conversation, then I think you are really going to enjoy this one.

    6. GM

      If I were to choose to live my life over again, I would live it in this way.

    7. RC

      Yeah.

    8. GM

      I wish I hadn't worked so hard. When you're driven to work too hard, you actually ignore what matters. And where does that come from? Again, that comes from childhood trauma.

Episode duration: 1:24:31

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