How Daryl Davis inspired 200+ neo-Nazis to leave the KKK | ReThinking with Adam Grant

ℹ️ EPISODE INFO

Released

November 21, 2025

Duration

40m

Channel

Re:Thinking with Adam Grant

Watch on YouTube

▶ Open ↗

📝 EPISODE DESCRIPTION

The Ku Klux Klan is one of the tightest-knit White supremacist groups in America—once someone joins, they’re usually in for life. But since the 1980s, over 200 members have renounced their affiliation, and all give credit to the same man: a Black jazz musician named Daryl Davis. In this episode, Adam is joined by Daryl and Jeff Schoep, a former leader of the largest neo-Nazi group in the US whose life and mind were changed by meeting and befriending Daryl. They discuss techniques for challenging ignorance and prejudice, analyze the cognitive dissonance experienced by members of extremist groups, and reflect on the conversations with Daryl that helped Jeff think again. They also explore the limits of empathy and curiosity. Host & Guest Adam Grant (Instagram: @adamgrant | LinkedIn: @adammgrant | Website: https://adamgrant.net/) Daryl Davis (Instagram: @realdaryldavis | Website: https://www.daryldavis.com/) Jeff Schoep (Instagram: @jeff_schoep | Website: https://jeffschoep.com/) Links https://beyondbarriersusa.org/ Join us in person at a TED conference: https://tedtalks.social/events Become a TED Member to support our mission: https://ted.com/membership Subscribe to a TED newsletter: https://ted.com/newsletters Follow TED! X: https://www.twitter.com/TEDTalks Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/ted Facebook: https://facebook.com/TED LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/company/ted-conferences TikTok: https://www.tiktok.com/@tedtoks Podcasts: https://www.ted.com/podcasts The TED Audio Collective is a collection of podcasts for the curious. The TED Audio Collective videos may be used for non-commercial purposes under a Creative Commons License, Attribution–Non Commercial–No Derivatives (or the CC BY – NC – ND 4.0 International) and in accordance with our TED Talks Usage Policy (https://www.ted.com/about/our-organiz...). For more information on using TED for commercial purposes (e.g. employee learning, in a film or online course), please submit a Media Request at https://media-requests.ted.com.

🎤 SPEAKERS

• Daryl Davis

  guest

  Black musician and activist known for engaging KKK members and other white supremacists in dialogue that has led many to leave extremist groups.

• Adam Grant

  host

  Organizational psychologist, Wharton professor, and host of the podcast ReThinking with Adam Grant.

• Jeff Schoep

  guest

  Former head of the National Socialist Movement and ex–neo-Nazi leader who later worked on deradicalization efforts.

🧾 EPISODE SUMMARY

In this episode of Re:Thinking with Adam Grant, featuring Daryl Davis and Adam Grant, How Daryl Davis inspired 200+ neo-Nazis to leave the KKK | ReThinking with Adam Grant explores how Daryl Davis uses curiosity to help extremists exit hate Daryl Davis explains how an early childhood experience with racism sparked a lifelong curiosity about the roots of hate and led him to engage directly with Klansmen and neo-Nazis.

🔗 RELATED EPISODES

RT Dana Suskind Final Cut | ReThinking

How to prevent corporate corruption with Eric Ries | ReThinking

Creative anxiety, self-doubt, and procrastination with Fredrik Backman | ReThinking

The craft of storytelling with Ann Patchett | ReThinking

Finnish president Alexander Stubb on the power of listening in leadership | ReThinking

Do women write more banned books?