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Re:Thinking with Adam GrantRe:Thinking with Adam Grant

How Pixar’s Ed Catmull and Pete Docter make magic on and off screen | ReThinking with Adam Grant

As they dreamed up iconic characters like Buzz and Woody, Pixar reinvented how animated movies are made. But first, they had to build a culture to make this magic possible.

Adam GranthostPete DocterguestEd Catmullguest
Aug 3, 202339mWatch on YouTube

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At a glance

WHAT IT’S REALLY ABOUT

Pixar leaders on creativity, dissent, and evolving culture amid uncertainty

  1. Catmull and Docter argue that creativity is iterative problem-solving, not sudden genius, and that “getting lost” is a normal phase of directing and innovation.
  2. Pixar’s Braintrust and other feedback mechanisms work best as diagnostic tools that surface problems, while directors retain ownership for choosing and inventing solutions.
  3. They describe cultural norms that make dissent and complaining useful by clarifying intent (“we want you to succeed”), protecting meeting dynamics, and making it safe to speak up.
  4. Catmull reframes criticism as a gift and emphasizes that successful teams are inherently unstable, requiring ongoing adjustment rather than reaching a permanent ‘healthy’ equilibrium.
  5. The conversation reframes Steve Jobs as a strong, evolving leader whose self-awareness and respect for creative processes improved over time, and whose presence could both sharpen thinking and distort group dynamics.

IDEAS WORTH REMEMBERING

5 ideas

Treat creativity as step-by-step problem solving, not inspiration.

Both leaders reject the “genius vision” myth: you advance by trying, learning, revising, and repeating—whether in animation technology or story development.

Expect the ‘dark tunnel’—and build systems to get un-lost.

Directors often lose clarity mid-process; the crucial capability is having colleagues and routines that help you regain direction without taking over the work.

Use challenge networks to reveal blind spots, not to outsource decisions.

The Braintrust is most valuable at diagnosing what’s broken; directors should interpret the underlying intent of notes and design the fix themselves.

Make dissent safe by designing the room, not just hiring brave people.

Catmull notes leaders change dynamics by entering; mechanisms like Peer Pirates surface issues across departments without intimidation or performative agreement.

Normalize complaining as signal—then translate it into choices.

Complaints often reveal perspectives leaders lack; the cultural move is to listen, validate being heard, and then decide among tradeoffs transparently.

WORDS WORTH SAVING

5 quotes

I do think it was important to believe and understand that I was wrong more than I thought I was.

— Ed Catmull

There's this delusion that this time I'm gonna solve it right off the bat. This time, the vision is clear. So at the very beginning, you're like, "Okay, this is gonna be great," and you get in just enough into the tunnel that the light starts to disappear from where you came, and then it's just all dark.

— Pete Docter

He really committed, and when it doesn't work, you, you let it go.

— Ed Catmull

But the other one was I feel actually happy that they're willing to come and talk to me.

— Ed Catmull

You don't actually reach the stable point... 'cause there is no stable point. A successful group is fundamentally unstable.

— Ed Catmull

Read the available transcript
Iterative creativity and the “dark tunnel” phaseStrong opinions held loosely (and its risks)Braintrust: feedback, diagnosis vs. solutionsPsychological safety and structured dissent (Peer Pirates)Reframing failure as “doesn’t work yet”Steve Jobs’s evolution, self-awareness, and influenceCulture as ongoing adaptation; instability as a feature

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SPEAKERS

  • Adam Grant

    host

    Organizational psychologist and Wharton professor; host of the ReThinking podcast.

  • Pete Docter

    guest

    Pixar filmmaker and executive; director of Up, Inside Out, and Soul.

  • Ed Catmull

    guest

    Co-founder and longtime president of Pixar; computer scientist and author on creative culture.

High quality AI-generated summary created from speaker-labeled transcript.

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