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Re:Thinking with Adam GrantRe:Thinking with Adam Grant

How to get someone to change their mind

The Ku Klux Klan is one of the tightest-knit White supremacist groups in America—once someone joins, they’re usually in for life. But since the 1980s, over 200 members have renounced their affiliation, and all give credit to the same man: a Black jazz musician named Daryl Davis. In this episode, Adam is joined by Daryl and Jeff Schoep, a former leader of the largest neo-Nazi group in the US whose life and mind were changed by meeting and befriending Daryl. They discuss techniques for challenging ignorance and prejudice, analyze the cognitive dissonance experienced by members of extremist groups, and reflect on the conversations with Daryl that helped Jeff think again. They also explore the limits of empathy and curiosity. Host & Guest Adam Grant (Instagram: @adamgrant | LinkedIn: @adammgrant | Website: https://adamgrant.net/) Daryl Davis (Instagram: @realdaryldavis | Website: https://www.daryldavis.com/) Jeff Schoep (Instagram: @jeff_schoep | Website: https://jeffschoep.com/) Join us in person at a TED conference: https://tedtalks.social/events Become a TED Member to support our mission: https://ted.com/membership Subscribe to a TED newsletter: https://ted.com/newsletters Follow TED! X: https://www.twitter.com/TEDTalks Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/ted Facebook: https://facebook.com/TED LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/company/ted-conferences TikTok: https://www.tiktok.com/@tedtoks Podcasts: https://www.ted.com/podcasts The TED Audio Collective is a collection of podcasts for the curious. The TED Audio Collective videos may be used for non-commercial purposes under a Creative Commons License, Attribution–Non Commercial–No Derivatives (or the CC BY – NC – ND 4.0 International) and in accordance with our TED Talks Usage Policy (https://www.ted.com/about/our-organiz...). For more information on using TED for commercial purposes (e.g. employee learning, in a film or online course), please submit a Media Request at https://media-requests.ted.com.

Adam Granthost
Nov 21, 20250mWatch on YouTube ↗

CHAPTERS

  1. 0:00 – 0:30

    Perception as personal reality—and why direct confrontation backfires

    Adam Grant explains that people experience their perceptions as reality, even when those perceptions are inaccurate. Because of that, trying to directly invalidate someone’s “reality” tends to trigger pushback and resistance rather than openness.

    • People treat what they perceive as their lived reality
    • Even if a belief is wrong, it still feels real to the person holding it
    • You generally can’t force-change someone’s reality from the outside
    • Directly attacking someone’s viewpoint often creates defensiveness and resistance
  2. 0:30 – 0:53

    Changing minds indirectly: offer better perceptions instead of attacking beliefs

    Rather than challenging someone head-on, the recommended approach is to present alternative perspectives that feel more compelling or useful. If the person finds resonance with a new perception, it can begin to shift their thinking organically.

    • Don’t attack their reality; provide alternative perceptions
    • Frame change as offering a better perspective, not proving them wrong
    • Multiple perspectives increase the chance of “resonance”
    • The goal is to create an opening, not win an argument

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