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Re:Thinking with Adam GrantHow to raise a new generation of readers with Shannon Hale | ReThinking with Adam Grant
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At a glance
WHAT IT’S REALLY ABOUT
Shannon Hale on raising readers through choice, empathy, and libraries
- Hale argues that “all reading is reading,” urging adults to validate audiobooks, graphic novels, and fan fiction instead of shaming kids for disliking canonical classics.
- She explains how libraries and children’s librarians can empower kids by giving them early ownership of their reading lives through choice and access.
- The conversation critiques how school reading lists and parent pressures can turn reading into a chore, undermining intrinsic motivation and causing many teens to stop reading for pleasure.
- Hale links book banning and gendered marketing to attempts to control empathy—especially discouraging boys from reading stories about girls and limiting narratives about LGBTQ people and people of color.
- Hale shares craft and resilience lessons from a career marked by rejection, advocating journaling, writing for fun, and “making bad art” to develop creativity—especially amid AI’s influence.
IDEAS WORTH REMEMBERING
5 ideasStop policing what “counts” as reading.
Hale frames audiobooks, graphic novels, and phone-based fan fiction as legitimate reading; validation increases the odds kids continue reading rather than quitting from shame.
Use libraries to put kids in charge of their reading.
A library card and regular library visits shift agency to the child and leverage expert guidance from children’s librarians to match books to interests and ability.
Choice is the antidote to forced-classics burnout.
Both Hale and Grant describe losing their love of reading when assigned only “sainted” classics; letting students vote on categories or choose independent books can restore intrinsic motivation.
Treat “great books” as debatable, not sacred.
Joanna’s class practice—discussing whether a text deserves to stay in the curriculum—models critical thinking and gives students permission to evaluate quality and relevance.
Gendered signals quietly gatekeep empathy.
Marketing and adult commentary often imply books about girls are “for girls,” discouraging boys and reinforcing a culture where girls practice empathy broadly but boys are shamed for empathizing with girls.
WORDS WORTH SAVING
5 quotesAll reading is reading. Audiobooks are reading. Reading fan fiction on your phone is reading.
— Shannon Hale
It hurts so much at the beginning, and then you start to realize, "Oh, okay, uh, rejection is really saying not that you're worthless, but this is not right time, not right place. Not here, not now."
— Shannon Hale
I remember I was in a bookstore, and my friend was running his fingers along the spines of books, and he was, like, taking them out and smelling them, and he said, "Oh, don't you love books?" And I had this epiphany that I was like, "No, I don't."
— Shannon Hale
When you're shaming a kid for what they're interested in, they're gonna be less interested in pursuing that.
— Shannon Hale
Make bad art is one of the best things I think you can tell anybody.
— Shannon Hale
SPEAKERS
Shannon Hale
guestChildren’s and YA author known for books such as Princess Academy, The Princess in Black, and the Friends series.
Adam Grant
hostOrganizational psychologist and host of the ReThinking podcast.
Joanna Grant
cameoAdam Grant’s daughter who joins the episode to ask questions and share her perspective as a student and reader.
High quality AI-generated summary created from speaker-labeled transcript.
