Re:Thinking with Adam GrantPinterest's CEO Bill Ready on making social media safe for Gen Z | ReThinking with Adam Grant
CHAPTERS
- 0:00 – 0:41
Rewiring the feed: using conscious signals to surface healthier content
Bill Ready explains Pinterest’s approach to “tuning AI for positivity” by prioritizing deliberate user actions—like saves and intentional clicks—over passive watch time. He argues that when algorithms optimize for what people explicitly want more of, the feed shifts away from triggering content toward constructive inspiration, and users feel better afterward.
- •Use explicit, conscious signals (saves, intentional engagement) to rank content
- •Shifts recommendations from triggering material to self-help, DIY, real-world activities
- •Measure emotional outcomes: users report feeling better after sessions
- •Humans may peek at “car crashes,” but won’t choose them when asked
- •Framing: users often want more of what’s good for them
- 0:41 – 3:49
Why 'engagement via enragement' became the default social media model
Adam Grant presses on why Bill rejects outrage-driven engagement. Bill traces a turning point when platforms moved from chronological feeds to algorithmic ranking designed to maximize view time, which often elevates negative or triggering material—especially harmful for young people’s mental health.
- •Outrage and triggers increase time-on-platform, so algorithms amplify them
- •2014–2015 shift from chronological to algorithmic feeds increased negativity
- •AI learns individual triggers: politics, comparison, “perfect lives”
- •Links to rising anxiety/depression among young people
- •Business incentives reinforced unhealthy content optimization
- 3:49 – 4:30
System 1 vs System 2: designing for 'time well spent'
The conversation reframes Pinterest’s product goal as optimizing for worthwhile experiences rather than maximizing minutes. Bill emphasizes that helping users act in the real world can reduce screen time but increase long-term loyalty and satisfaction.
- •Design for reflective choice (System 2) over impulsive attention (System 1)
- •Goal: 'time well spent' instead of total time spent
- •Pinterest aims to inspire offline actions (outfits, meals, projects)
- •Hypothesis: users return for better reasons even if they spend less time
- •Positioning: healthier 'social media diet'
- 4:30 – 7:07
Gen Z growth and a bold safety bet: private-only accounts for under 16
Bill explains Pinterest’s under-16 policy: accounts are private-only and cannot be switched back. He describes short-term investor backlash followed by user growth, arguing that Gen Z is increasingly aware social media can be harmful and is receptive to safer, less performative environments.
- •Gen Z is 40%+ of Pinterest users and fastest-growing segment
- •Under-16 accounts are private-only; strangers cannot contact them
- •Policy initially hurt stock price but later aligned with strong growth
- •Pew: many Gen Z users believe social media isn’t good for them
- •Private space reduces comparative/performative pressure
- 7:07 – 8:20
From company policy to industry change: collaborating with researchers and a 'safety race'
Bill shares why the issue is personal (his 11-year-old daughter) and why he wants the entire industry to compete on safety like automakers do. He discusses collaborating with Jon Haidt and other researchers to push norms beyond Pinterest.
- •Personal motivation as a parent fuels urgency
- •Collaboration with Jon Haidt and researchers in digital wellbeing
- •Vision: platforms competing on safety records like car companies
- •Goal extends beyond business success to broader movement building
- •Safety framed as core product/industry accountability
- 8:20 – 10:39
Why other CEOs haven’t changed: addiction design, locked-in incentives, and the seat belt analogy
Bill argues harms were not fully clear early on, but addictive design became deliberate as the business model matured. He compares social media’s moment to the auto industry’s resistance to seat belts—suggesting standards and competition can shift incentives over time.
- •Early optimism about social media gave way to negative outcomes
- •Product design intentionally triggered dopamine/compulsion
- •Business models became dependent on maximizing attention
- •Some features effectively monetize teen anxiety
- •Seat belt analogy: regulation + brand competition changed autos
- 10:39 – 11:45
A path forward: baseline regulation plus measurable wellbeing standards
Bill makes a market-failure argument: without a baseline, companies are pushed into a race to the bottom. He advocates for common standards—such as measuring emotional wellbeing impacts—paired with competition to exceed those standards rather than minimal compliance.
- •Social media incentives create a 'race to the bottom' dynamic
- •Support for thoughtful regulation without micromanaging product design
- •Proposal: common standard measuring emotional wellbeing impact
- •Accountability: publish results and compete on outperforming the baseline
- •Belief in combining free-market innovation with policy guardrails
- 11:45 – 12:45
What 'positivity' looks like in product: diversity by default and inclusive discovery
Bill offers concrete examples: body type ranges, skin tone ranges, hair pattern searches, and more inclusive representation in fashion/beauty content. He argues these changes improve user experience and can even boost engagement, aligning ethics with business outcomes.
- •Default diversity in feeds across body type, skin tone, hair pattern
- •User controls to tailor inspiration to their own appearance/context
- •More realistic representation improves experience and engagement
- •Scale: serving 570M+ users across backgrounds
- •Principle: 'doing well by doing good'
- 12:45 – 13:30
Welcoming worthy competitors: why Pinterest wants others to follow
Adam challenges whether sharing safety tactics undermines differentiation. Bill argues that competition on positivity would raise the bar for everyone and push Pinterest to improve, framing it as both moral responsibility and strategic benefit.
- •Belief: a 'worthy competitor' improves performance
- •Desire for industry-wide shift away from outrage incentives
- •Athletics analogy (Bird/Magic) for mutually elevating competition
- •Strategic: competition would push Pinterest to 'up our game'
- •Civic/parental motivation outweighs secrecy
- 13:30 – 16:38
Phone-free schools: evidence, collective action anxiety, and what changes once bans start
They discuss research and policy momentum around removing phones from schools, citing reduced bullying and improved outcomes. Bill explains why implementation is hard—fear, addiction, logistical conflict—but describes rapid improvements in social connection once the transition happens.
- •Evidence: smartphone bans linked to less bullying and better wellbeing
- •Momentum across U.S. states; governors seeing improved outcomes
- •Barrier: collective action problem and fear of missing out
- •Transition period includes high anxiety and stakeholder resistance
- •After bans: kids talk again—'it sounds like a school'
- 16:38 – 18:28
Addressing the top parent fear: school shootings and phone access
Adam raises the most common objection to phone bans—emergency communication during shootings—and argues smartphones don’t improve safety. Bill adds that safety experts prefer students focus on instructions rather than being distracted by incoming calls or alerts.
- •Common concern: phones needed in shooting scenarios
- •Counterpoint: no evidence smartphones save kids in these situations
- •Risk: phone alerts can reveal hiding students’ locations
- •Safety experts: attention should be on school leaders’ instructions
- •Distinction between parent reassurance vs student safety
- 18:28 – 20:30
Pinterest’s school-hours nudge and the Inspired Internet Pledge
Bill describes a product experiment prompting under-18 users to leave Pinterest during school hours and offering a shortcut to disable notifications. He also introduces the Inspired Internet Pledge—commitments to measure, improve, and publish emotional wellbeing impact—intended to create transparent, imitable standards.
- •Under-18 school-hours prompt: 'Come see us after school'
- •Link to turn off device notifications to reduce distraction beyond Pinterest
- •Long-view bet: wellbeing investments build durable trust and retention
- •Inspired Internet Pledge with Boston Children’s Hospital Digital Wellness Lab
- •Commitment to measure and publish emotional wellbeing impact over time
- 20:30 – 23:48
Lightning round + changing minds: building movements and overcoming resignation
Bill shares a leadership lesson about building a team of “freedom fighters” who demand a real mission, plus a dinner-guest thought experiment about AI’s Oppenheimer moment. He then asks how to overcome public acceptance of social media negativity; Adam responds with listening, motivational interviewing, and the question, 'What evidence would change your mind?'
- •Career advice: choose 'freedom fighters'—but mission must be authentic
- •AI parallels to nuclear era; interest in learning from early pioneers
- •Movement challenge: people resign themselves to negativity as inevitable
- •Adam: listening can persuade more than talking
- •Tool: ask stakeholders what evidence would change their mind
- 23:48 – 33:02
DEI under attack: meritocracy, resilience, and lessons from a Kentucky auto shop
They close with a discussion of DEI as compatible with meritocracy, arguing diverse inclusion strengthens talent outcomes and business performance. Bill connects inclusion to hiring for resilience and shares formative experiences from his upbringing—Pell Grants, working jobs, and accountability learned in his family’s repair shop—shaping his sense of responsibility to users.
- •Argument: meritocracy 'done properly' must be diverse and inclusive
- •Pinterest diversity metrics and leadership representation tied to performance
- •Hiring emphasis on resilience; adversity can be a predictor of success
- •Personal story: first-gen college with Pell Grants enabling opportunity
- •Formative lesson: owning mistakes and understanding real-world impact
