Choose Your Seven Humans Wisely with author Fredrik Backman | Simon Sinek

1. FBFredrik Backman0:00

   My best friend and my wife, if they would have, if they would have gone on one of like the matchmaking websites or something, if they would have put themselves through an algorithm and said, "Find me a person," they would have never found me.

2. SSSimon Sinek0:21

   Yeah.

3. FBFredrik Backman0:21

   Like never in a million years would an algorithm have said, "This, this lunatic, he's the guy for you." Never. I was fortunate in the way that I stumble upon people early on in my life that was very different from me.

4. SSSimon Sinek0:38

   Yeah.

5. FBFredrik Backman0:38

   And I found out very quickly that that was a good thing for me.

6. SSSimon Sinek0:42

   Yeah.

7. FBFredrik Backman0:42

   That was... Like I needed people who were not like me-

8. SSSimon Sinek0:48

   Yeah

9. FBFredrik Backman0:48

   ... um, so, so that I could look at their best qualities and strive for them.

10. SSSimon Sinek0:53

    If you're an avid listener of this podcast, you may know something about me, that I'm not a reader. I've actually written more books than I've read. But this conversation with Fredrik Backman makes me want to read. The way he thinks, the way he sees the world, the way he sees humans and friendships and people, it inspired me. I actually bought two of his novels, Anxious People and A Man Called Ove, which was later made into a movie, A Man Called Otto, starring Tom Hanks. We live in a world where loneliness is an epidemic, and Fredrik reminds us that meaningful relationships are built with intention. They take showing up again and again and again, even when it's inconvenient. His new book, My Friends, drives that point home. The people who have deep, meaningful connections in the world, they're not lucky. They do the work, and that work is worth it. I wanted to begin this episode talking about Fredrik's fantastic viral speech that he gave about creative anxiety and procrastination at Simon & Schuster's centennial. He is, of course, humble about the video's success, but it's easy to see why his words connected with so many people. It's brilliant, hilarious, and painfully relatable for introverts like me, and that is a perfect description for the conversation that follows. This is A Bit of Optimism. Oh, and P.S. If you ever go to Stockholm, Fredrik and I reveal who has the best cardamom buns in the world. This episode is brought to you by Porsche. And like all great brands with great products, it's the people behind the products that make them so spectacular. You already know this. Irrespective of whether people are fans of your books or not, the little video you did at the publishing thing, uh, went viral and made you a bit of an internet sensation.

11. FBFredrik Backman3:00

    Yeah, fueled by pure panic. My wife has this thing where she doesn't give me all of the information, which she finds to be very effective, so she didn't... I thought... My, my publisher was celebrating their 100 years, Simon & Schuster, and they only invited me because they needed like a Scandinavian. Like they needed to show we have authors from all over the world, and at some point, someone in a meeting was like, "Do we have anyone from Scandinavia?" And they were like, "Yeah, I think we have a guy." My wife also explained to me like, "Oh, they're gonna have a thing," and I, I, you know, and I thought, based on what she told me, that I was gonna give a speech at a dinner. And then I-

12. SSSimon Sinek3:41

    Yeah

13. FBFredrik Backman3:41

    ... arrived, and it was at a theater in the presence of, of a lot of, a lot of writers and a lot of people that I really, really admire and, and really look up to. And I had prepared a speech full of stupid jokes, 'cause I don't know how to write a speech. [cheering] Good evening. My name is, uh, Fredrik Backman. I'm here tonight because my agent said that this would be good for my career. [laughs] She said I need to learn how to speak in front of people. [laughs] "It will be fun," she said. [laughs] So I told her that I write books. I spend eight hours every day locked inside a room with people I have made up. [laughs] If I was comfortable talking to real people, I would have a real job. [laughs] But my agent said, "You know, just go up there and talk about the life of a writer." And I said, "All right." Being a writer is the best way I know how to get paid for being insane. [laughs] So it was, it was pure panic. What you saw on, on the video, that was just me panicking and thinking, "This is gonna be the end of my time at this very nice publishing house." They were-

14. SSSimon Sinek4:58

    Well, the good news is they hire you for being a writer, not a speech giver, and the better news is you nailed it. But inherently, the audience is always rooting for who's ever on the stage, I've found. And where things are the best and we most enjoy what we hear is that somebody is showing who they truly are, which is if they're nervous or if they speak slowly. As long as that's who they are, I think people fall in love.

15. FBFredrik Backman5:22

    I am here tonight with all of my anxiety, because I know that in this room, there might be someone who is dreaming about writing a book. Uh, dreaming of becoming an author. So I'm here to tell you that I am obviously an idiot. [laughs] I have no idea what I'm doing, but I became an author anyway. [laughs] So you can too. [laughs] And I hope that one day I will be able to tell my agent that the reason that my next book is not finished yet is because I was busy reading yours. [laughs] Thank you very much. [cheering]

16. SSSimon Sinek5:57

    I think that's what happened, which is we fell in love with somebody who was very honest about how you were actually feeling, in a day and age where we filter everything and everything's performative.

17. FBFredrik Backman6:06

    I'm glad if it felt that way. Um-I, there was a lot of people who told me afterwards, like, "It was so good," because, you know, it wasn't perfect. It wasn't, like, practiced. And I'm like, [laughs] I... Well, I tried. I, it wasn't my intention not to [laughs] I... It was my intention for it to be good. You know, you walk up on stage, and they... I had a piece of paper with the speech written down.

18. SSSimon Sinek6:27

    Yeah.

19. FBFredrik Backman6:27

    And, and they said, "No, no, we can put that on the teleprompter." And I was like, "Absolutely not. I'm holding onto the paper that d- like, this is, like, my life raft on open sea. I'm holding onto this like I'm holding on to, like, the, the edge of a mountain." It went all right, but it was, uh, it was, there was a lot of panic involved.

20. SSSimon Sinek6:48

    [laughs]

21. FBFredrik Backman6:48

    This is also a lot of panic involved, and, uh, that we, we talked about that earlier, but the reason that I, the reason that I said yes to this, I was gonna explain to my children what I was gonna do today.

22. SSSimon Sinek7:01

    Mm-hmm.

23. FBFredrik Backman7:01

    I said, "Well, I'm gonna be on this podcast," and they said, "What, what kind of podcast?" And I said, "This incredibly intelligent m- man who, who has written th- these books on leadership, and he invites these incredibly smart people to his podcast, and they, they talk about, you know, profound things, and, and they talk about, like, research and, and science, and, and, you know, the world and the society." And you can see my kids l- looking at me like, "When are we gonna get to the part of why you're here? Why are you gonna be on it?" But the reason that I couldn't say no was that my best friend, we've known each other since we were teenagers, so 30-plus years. He's a great extrovert. You know, the always... W- was always a good leader, always one of those guys that you followed everywhere because he just had that charisma. Uh, and he, uh, when he was 19, he started working as a forklift driver at a warehouse, uh, fruit and vegetables. And, uh, and then over the course of 25 years, he's-

24. SSSimon Sinek7:58

    Yeah

25. FBFredrik Backman7:58

    ... worked his way up, and now he's the head of HR, uh, for the company of 900 people. He talks about, you know, your books and your writing and how it's affected his view on leadership, how it's affected his view on how to be of service to others.

26. SSSimon Sinek8:18

    I like that.

27. FBFredrik Backman8:18

    Like, he talks a lot about, he talks a lot about how he learned that leadership, it's not about the position. It's about the responsibility, and responsibility to others, and being of service to others. We talk about it a lot. Um, so I couldn't... Like, there was no way that he would forgive me if I said [laughs] no to this.

28. SSSimon Sinek8:39

    That's very kind. Thank you. What I'm taking away from that story, which is so beautiful, uh, is how proud you are of him. You're glowing-

29. FBFredrik Backman8:47

    Yeah

30. SSSimon Sinek8:48

    ... as you talk about it. And as I've been looking at friendship and trying to understand friendship, there's this very interesting observation that we all, I hope, have at least one but a few, a, a group of people that we can turn to in dark times. When we're at our worst, when we're struggling, we can go to these people and say, "I, I just need to vent. I need your help. I'm, I'm not doing well." You know? I, I hope that everybody has that, that group of friends. What I've found fascinating is that it's a smaller group of friends that we can call to brag, that we can call to say, "I did something great. Something great happened to me. My book hit the bestseller list. I'm so proud of myself." And there's no jealousy on the other side, and there's no envy. And what I find so fascinating is the number of people that we can brag to is smaller than the number of people we can go to in hard times. And so this says a lot, I think, about the quality of your friendship. You said he's such a close friend, you've been friends since you were teenagers, that you're talking about his accomplishments as if they're your own. Has it always been like that, or have you ever had thi- times in your, in that friendship where you were jealous, or something he did highlighted an insecurity in you?

Episode duration: 58:07