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How to Be Happy — Arthur C. Brooks Interview

Brought to you by: Wealthfront high-yield savings account https://wealthfront.com/tim Eight Sleep’s Pod Cover sleeping solution for dynamic cooling and heating https://eightsleep.com/Tim AG1 all-in-one nutritional supplement https://drinkag1.com/tim Resources from this episode: https://tim.blog/2023/09/11/arthur-c-brooks/ Build the Life You Want: https://www.amazon.com/Build-Life-You-Want-Science/dp/0593545400/?tag=offsitoftimfe-20 Arthur C. Brooks (@arthurbrooks) is the Parker Gilbert Montgomery Professor of the Practice of Public and Nonprofit Leadership at the Harvard Kennedy School and Professor of Management Practice at the Harvard Business School, where he teaches courses on leadership and happiness. He is also a columnist at The Atlantic, where he writes the popular “How to Build a Life” column. Brooks is the author of 13 books, including the 2022 #1 New York Times bestseller From Strength to Strength: Finding Success, Happiness, and Deep Purpose in the Second Half of Life and his newest Build the Life You Want: The Art and Science of Getting Happier with co-author Oprah Winfrey. He speaks to audiences all around the world about human happiness and works to raise well-being within private companies, universities, public agencies, and community organizations. Please enjoy! [00:00] Intro [00:45] The reverse bucket list. [06:55] Intention without attachment. [08:48] Writing Thích Nhất Hạnh’s obituary. [11:35] Buddhist views through a Catholic lens. [14:52] Blood occlusion training and physical fitness over 40. [18:42] Arthur’s semi-mystical teenage experiences in Mexico. [25:10] Arthur’s academic dad on complex vs. complicated. [28:25] Happiness hygiene for genetically baseline gloominess. [31:08] Happiness and unhappiness: hand in hand. [34:22] Being effective with one’s affects. [37:53] The three macronutrients of happiness. [45:21] Identifying (and learning to live with) our idols. [58:02] Secularly securing transcendent perspective. [1:04:50] Money doesn’t buy happiness — it lowers unhappiness. [1:09:46] Tithing and adoption. [1:13:23] How Arthur and his wife met, and how their values aligned over time. [1:20:39] Advice for seeking love in the modern world. [1:28:17] Death meditation. [1:38:33] Finding personal purpose and meaning. [1:53:06] Four fundamental micronutrients of happiness. [1:56:11] Translating a need for change into action. [2:03:41] Aristotle’s secrets to happiness. [2:08:31] Real friends help us put the kibosh on self-deception. [2:16:08] Reflecting on the repercussions of living for the mirror’s approval. [2:19:49] Collaborating with Oprah on Build the Life You Want. [2:25:21] The point Arthur hopes people don’t miss in Build the Life You Want. [2:29:09] Reading recommendation: The Noonday Demon. [2:30:46] Exposure therapy: making pain part of one’s medicine. [2:35:49] A practical way to be grateful for life’s bad things. [2:38:54] Parting thoughts. Tim Ferriss is one of Fast Company’s “Most Innovative Business People” and an early-stage tech investor/advisor in Uber, Facebook, Twitter, Shopify, Duolingo, Alibaba, and 50+ other companies. He is also the author of five #1 New York Times and Wall Street Journal bestsellers: The 4-Hour Workweek, The 4-Hour Body, The 4-Hour Chef, Tools of Titans and Tribe of Mentors. The Observer and other media have named him “the Oprah of audio” due to the influence of his podcast, The Tim Ferriss Show, which has exceeded 900 million downloads and been selected for “Best of Apple Podcasts” three years running. Sign up for "5-Bullet Friday" (Tim's free weekly email newsletter): https://go.tim.blog/5-bullet-friday-yt/ Follow the Tim Ferriss Podcast: https://tim.blog/podcast/ Visit the Tim Ferriss Blog: https://tim.blog/ Follow Tim Ferriss on Twitter: https://twitter.com/tferriss/ Follow Tim Ferriss on Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/timferriss/ Like Tim Ferriss on Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/TimFerriss/

Tim FerrisshostArthur C. Brooksguest
Sep 13, 20232h 42mWatch on YouTube ↗

At a glance

WHAT IT’S REALLY ABOUT

Arthur Brooks on getting happier: detach, suffer wisely, find meaning

  1. Arthur C. Brooks explains his “reverse bucket list” as a tool for reducing attachment to ambitions by lowering wants rather than endlessly increasing haves.
  2. He argues that happiness is not the absence of unhappiness and introduces “happiererness” as the goal, with suffering and negative emotion treated as necessary parts of a full life.
  3. He outlines three “macronutrients” of happiness—enjoyment, satisfaction, and meaning—and differentiates enjoyment from pleasure by emphasizing people and memory.
  4. He presents Aquinas’s four “idols” (money, power, pleasure, fame) as common substitutes for the divine that can quietly govern behavior, and he demonstrates how to identify one’s idol in practice.
  5. He discusses practical frameworks for meaning (coherence, purpose, significance), proposes two diagnostic questions (“Why are you alive?” and “For what would you be willing to die?”), and describes habit-building via understanding, practicing, and sharing.

IDEAS WORTH REMEMBERING

5 ideas

Use a “reverse bucket list” to practice intention without attachment.

He described a birthday practice of writing down ambitions (money, power, admiration, etc.) and crossing them out as “attachments,” then revisiting the list later to check whether he’s staying consciously detached. He framed it as moving desires from the limbic system into the “executive manager” of the prefrontal cortex.

Happiness and unhappiness aren’t opposites; “happiererness” requires room for both.

He said happiness is not the absence of unhappiness and not merely a feeling; happiness and unhappiness can coexist and are processed differently in the brain. He emphasized that the goal is to get “happier,” not to eliminate unhappiness, since suffering and negative emotions play functional roles in being fully alive.

Enjoyment beats pleasure when it includes people and memory.

He defined the macronutrients as enjoyment, satisfaction, and meaning. Enjoyment is distinct from pleasure: he argued pleasure alone can become compulsive/addictive, while enjoyment comes from combining pleasure with “people and memory.”

Satisfaction requires struggle, and lasts longer when wants shrink, not when haves grow.

He said satisfaction comes from achieving something with struggle and deferred gratification, but it’s hard to “keep” satisfaction due to homeostasis (returning to baseline). He tied this to the “haves divided by wants” model: lasting satisfaction comes more reliably from wanting less than from accumulating more.

Identify your idol—money, power, pleasure, or fame—to manage what repeatedly derails you.

Drawing on Aquinas, he presented four common “divinity substitutes” (money, power, pleasure, fame) and argued most people have one or two that reliably lead them astray. He uses an exercise (“What’s My Idol?”) to identify which idol is driving recurring regret so it can be managed rather than denied.

WORDS WORTH SAVING

5 quotes

Lasting and stable satisfaction, which doesn't wear off in, like, a minute, comes when you understand that your satisfaction is your haves divided by your wants.

— Arthur C. Brooks

You can increase your satisfaction temporarily and inefficiently by having more or permanently and securely by wanting less.

— Arthur C. Brooks

It's not a problem, because unhappiness is really important. You won't be happy if you get rid of your unhappiness because you gotta be fully alive to get happier.

— Arthur C. Brooks

Happiness and its feelings are associated with three tangible phenomena in our lives that we can actually understand and manage: enjoyment, satisfaction, and meaning.

— Arthur C. Brooks

What we need is a sense of the transcendent that makes us small.

— Arthur C. Brooks

Reverse bucket listIntention without attachmentThích Nhất Hạnh and mindfulnessPositive/negative affect (PANAS)Enjoyment vs. pleasureSatisfaction, struggle, and homeostasisMeaning: coherence, purpose, significance

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