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Tim FerrissTim Ferriss

The Random Show — Biohacking, Tim’s COVID Experience, Holiday Gift Ideas, Favorite Apps, and More

Technologist, serial entrepreneur, world-class investor, self-experimenter, and all-around wild and crazy guy Kevin Rose (@KevinRose) rejoins me for another episode of The Random Show.

Tim FerrisshostKevin Roseguest
Nov 24, 20212h 1mWatch on YouTube

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Transcript

  1. 0:00 – 2:04

    Disclaimers, show kickoff, and reuniting in person

    1. TF

      Just a few quick disclaimers before we get started. The short one, Kevin and I are not doctors nor therapists, and we don't play them on the internet. We're also not giving investment advice. This episode and blog post are for informational purposes only, and nothing is intended as professional or medical advice in any capacity. Please be smart, not stupid, and be safe and get professional advice on all things we discuss. Here is a slightly longer version. This podcast episode is for general informational purposes only and does not constitute the practice of medicine, nursing, or other professional healthcare services, including the giving of medical advice, and no doctor-patient relationship is formed. The use of information in this podcast episode or materials linked from tim.blog is at the user's and listener's own risk. The content of this episode is not intended to be a substitute for professional medical advice, diagnosis, or treatment. Users should not disregard or delay in obtaining medical advice for any medical condition they may have and should seek the assistance of their healthcare professionals for any such conditions. I am not an investment advisor. All opinions are mine alone. There are risks involved in placing any investment in securities or in Bitcoin or in cryptocurrencies or in anything. None of the information presented today, or really any time since you might be listening to this any time, is intended to form the basis for any offer or recommendation or have any regard to the investment objectives, financial situation, or needs of any specific person. That includes you, my dear listener. So everything you're gonna hear is for informational entertainment purposes only. And with that said, please enjoy. [upbeat music] Hello, boys and girls, ladies and germs, Kevins and toasters.

    2. KR

      [laughs]

    3. TF

      This is Tim Ferriss, and welcome to another episode of The Random Show, episode number 1,374. My guest today, as always, is Kevin Rose. Mr. K. Rose, how are you, sir?

    4. KR

      Dude, it is, uh, I'm so glad we finally got a chance to hang, you know?

    5. TF

      Yeah, for sure.

  2. 2:04 – 6:54

    Marfa trip recap: Art Blocks event and early-SXSW vibes

    1. KR

      When we went and did that trip together, it had been so long, and we finally, you know, now that we're all vaxxed and whatnot, uh, had a chance to hang out in Marfa, Texas. Um, we could talk about all that stuff later. [laughs]

    2. TF

      You sh- well, you should. You should. You're teasing it, so you might as well just describe for folks what we ended up doing. It was, it was a lot of fun. It was a great time. It was also just fun to crash together, me on the couch.

    3. KR

      Yeah. You tried to get in the bed.

    4. TF

      I did. I tried to snuggle into bed. It was freezing. And then, uh-

    5. KR

      [laughs]

    6. TF

      Well, we should provide some more context, but I will just say that Kevin's like, "You got the couch." I'm like, "That's fine. I can crash on the couch." And I was like, "Where are the blankets?" And we found basically, like, some towels, and it got down to like [laughs] mid-40s at night. I was dying. And then the very last day, I was like, "Are you sure you checked everywhere?"

    7. KR

      [laughs]

    8. TF

      He's like, "Yeah, I checked everywhere." And I'm like, "What about these drawers?" I pulled 'em out under the bed, and I'm like, "You fucker, there are comforters everywhere." [laughs]

    9. KR

      [laughs]

    10. TF

      So it was, uh, it was good. Good shared-

    11. KR

      Yeah

    12. TF

      ... privation. Or it wasn't r- actually shared. It was isolated Tim privation, but that's okay.

    13. KR

      Yeah.

    14. TF

      Nonetheless.

    15. KR

      I mean, there must have been some health benefit from doing that cold... It's like a cold plunge at night for you basically is what you're doing.

    16. TF

      Yeah, that's great. [laughs] It's great. Yeah, it was fantastic. But what the hell were we doing in Marfa, Texas, and why is Marfa, Texas, noteworthy? I can also chime in.

    17. KR

      So yeah, we were out at Marfa, Texas, which for those that, of you that don't know, it's kinda in the middle of nowhere. Uh, it, it is quite the trek to get out there. And so [laughs] w- we had a little easier time getting out there, but we, we got out there, and it was the Art Blocks, um, conference. And so they were doing their first kind of kickoff event. They have a house out there. And for those of you that don't know, Art Blocks is a NFT generative art platform. So they were the very first, uh, generative platform, meaning that artists come in, they write code that creates art. So the code actually, you don't know what you're gonna get when you're minting it, so when you come in to Art Blocks and you see a project that looks cool 'cause you've seen a test mint, you go ahead and connect your wallet. And when you connect your wallet, you choose make me one of these, and then it's all random. And you get some beautiful new kind of creative piece of artwork that is defined by the code that was written by the artist. So it's kind of a, a... Generative art's been around for, for, you know, quite some time, but this is the first time we've been able to get kind of captured. It's always been art installations. And now that it's captured in NFTs, this platform really took off, and you and I were like, "Heck, let's go check out the kickoff event and see what's going on there," and it was awesome.

    18. TF

      I said, "Kevin, heck-"

    19. KR

      Heck yeah, Kevin.

    20. TF

      "... let's get out of here." [laughs]

    21. KR

      [laughs] I'm like, "What the heck?"

    22. TF

      You said, "This is exciting, Kevin Rose."

    23. KR

      I'm, I'm keeping it PG.

    24. TF

      [laughs] That was good. You're ready to move to Utah. [laughs]

    25. KR

      No, we, we, we had fun though, dude. Like, there was... It felt like early South By, didn't it? Remember, you know, South By, early South By Southwest.

    26. TF

      We did. Yeah, it s- it felt like t- it felt like South By Interactive 2007, to be really specific, where you could tell there were the seeds of something that was going to grow to be much larger. But it was still being largely as a phenomenon. It wasn't even considered a phenomenon. It was sort of the, the new curiosity that wasn't taken terribly seriously, if that makes any sense. And, and then it started to gobble up everything else in terms of interactive and, you know, in the same way that some people think NFTs will be u- ubiquitous in some respects with the ownership economy. And I should say also, for people who are listening to this, if you're like, "Good Lord, is this gonna be another entire episode on NFTs?" We are gonna talk about NFTs, but we're gonna also touch on many, many other things, including my experience with finally contracting COVID. We'll talk about that. We'll talk about all sorts of tools, bio hacks, many other things.

    27. KR

      We've got a full agenda today, all kinds of crazy stuff.

    28. TF

      Full agenda. [laughs] Holiday gift ideas.

    29. KR

      Yes.

    30. TF

      And we'll cover a lot of ground. So NFTs will be part of that, but not all of that. And- It was great to hang, man. It was so nice to finally be able to spend some time just the two of us in person. It's been a very, very long time. I mean, when, when would you say the last time is that we were able to do that? If we think about kind of the old days, right?

  3. 6:54 – 12:14

    What they’re drinking: sotol, mezcal, tequila, and event free-pours

    1. KR

      Oh, speaking of which, we should talk about what that sotol is, 'cause I thought that was a fantastic drink, and you, uh, ended up being an investor in this company that was based in Marfa, which was crazy.

    2. TF

      Yeah.

    3. KR

      And then also, um, we should talk about the old school, we're, we're drinking drinks now that we used to on The Random Show, we used to talk about what we were drinking.

    4. TF

      Yeah, so let's, let's check off the drinks. [laughs] I'll describe sotol first. So sotol, S-O-T-O-L, is a really fascinating plant that is found in a few different places, certain parts of Texas, like West Texas, and also a few distinct portions of Mexico. And when you create a spirit from this, and the company in Marfa is Marfa Spirit, so it's easy to find, Marfa Spirit Co., and we had a lot of sotol when we were there, it is taste-wise somewhere between tequila and mezcal. So the cooking process is actually very similar to mezcal, which has a smoky feel to it, and that's actually what I'll be drinking today, is some mezcal.

    5. KR

      Mm-hmm.

    6. TF

      So I'll just show what I'm drinking today. This is Aqui No Mas. Aqui No Mas from Oaxaca, which is a artisanal mezcal, and it is, it is dot, dot, dot. We'll find out. This was a gift from a friend because he knows that I like mezcal, and he brought this back. So this is what I'll be drinking, uh, today. But what we had were at least two different types of sotol when we were in Marfa, and we also had, uh, Marfa Spirit's sotol that has been aged in, I want to say rum barrels, which gave it an incredible flavor. So that was a blast in Marfa.

    7. KR

      Yeah.

    8. TF

      But today it is Aqui No Mas from Oaxaca. What are you drinking?

    9. KR

      I am just having, uh, some, it's a little earlier where I am versus where you are, so I went with some, uh, champagne, actually. So I'm doing, uh, Billecart champagne, which, for me, uh, just a rosé. I know it sounds, you know- [laughs] It is what it is. It's just-

    10. TF

      You, you live in Portland. You have Japanese/Chinese calligraphy artwork on the, and you have a, you have a designer, uh, hypoallergenic dog on a bed behind you. So I think-

    11. KR

      Yeah

    12. TF

      ... I think it matches. It works. [laughs]

    13. KR

      This, this is the guest bedroom, but, um, yeah, so I mean, h- dude, you know what? I, I want to just come out and say it. I love champagne. Champagne is good. I'm, I'm sorry. It is just a good beverage. It's like, it doesn't spike my glucose.

    14. TF

      [laughs]

    15. KR

      And I think, I, I think that Billecart, for, for under $100... Like, champagne can get really expensive, obviously. For under $100, you know, I think they, it's, like, 60 bucks or so. It's, like, the best. It's fantastic. So that's my plug for Billecart. I'm not a sponsor, although if you wanna sponsor me, Billecart, love that.

    16. TF

      Actually, I'll give people a, a, a two-for-one because I, I, I had two choices. I have more than two choices, but I decided to narrow it down to mezcal and then tequila. And this tequila here, which I'm not having today, but I've had before, I was introduced to a few weeks ago, it's called LALO. It's made in Lexi- in, made in Lexico. It's made in Mexico.

    17. KR

      [laughs]

    18. TF

      L-A-L-O. [laughs] And, uh, it is 100% agave azul blanco tequila, and it's from, uh, Los Altos de Jalisco. It's delicious. It has sort of a vegetal green-

    19. KR

      Mm

    20. TF

      ... flavor to it, which is, for my palate and my experience at least, pretty unusual with tequila, and I was introduced to this at a restaurant called Suerte here in Austin-

    21. KR

      Is that a blanco?

    22. TF

      ... where I had dinner. Yeah, it is.

    23. KR

      Awesome.

    24. TF

      And I had... Well, it's agave azul blanco, so I guess it is a blanco. Yeah, blanco tequila. And-

    25. KR

      You know, when we had Marfa, we had, uh, Dragonas, which we both love. Ca- Casa, uh, Casa Dragones, that is a fantastic tequila.

    26. TF

      That's also a great tequila, so thank you, Chinati Foundation. [laughs]

    27. KR

      Yeah, they had a booth.

    28. TF

      Or I guess thank you, Casa Dragones, for probably sponsoring the Chinati Foundation, uh, weekend, at least that event. So that was, that was a rare opportunity. I [laughs] ... You know, they were just, like, serving Casa Dragones out of a booth, and to everyone who was there, I was like, "You know, even if you don't love tequila, you should go try that because it's, like, $300 a bottle, and they're just pouring it, pouring it like it's water, so you should try some."

    29. KR

      It's funny, you and I showed up this, basically, I mean, it was like a, a buffet, right? Like, you and I, we show up at this event, and it's like a buffet with a bunch of people, and it, it's in the middle of nowhere, you know, this field and shit with buildings fall- falling down all around it.

    30. TF

      [laughs]

  4. 12:14 – 19:21

    Kevin’s biohacking: rapamycin, the Dog Aging Project, and Toaster’s energy boost

    1. TF

      But we can start really anywhere you wanna start, but why don't you jump into that because you have, you've been doing more experimentation, or at least voluntary experimentation, than I have recently.

    2. KR

      Yeah, absolutely. And you know, I will say, uh, first and foremost that you, I mean, you've obviously had Peter T on your show many, many times. When we mention these crazy bio hacks, always best to go back to his podcast and refer to these episodes where he talks about these in great detail because, um-

    3. TF

      Even better to talk to your own doctor [laughs]

    4. KR

      Well, no doubt, but like-

    5. TF

      Because none, none of this constitutes medical advice, but yes, to, to hear Peter's descriptions in greater length, his podcast will not disappoint on the detail side.

    6. KR

      Right. Yeah, I'm just a consumer. He's, you know, uh, has real scientists that he interviews and, and whatnot. So for me, you know, I, I've been, um, following the news around, uh, rapamycin for a while, which is, uh, the potential ... Right now the drug is used for immune suppression in transplant patients. So if you get a new organ, high dose raba- rapamycin is used to suppress immune systems so your body doesn't reject the organs. But they've shown that in lower doses in, in all different types of, you know, mice and, and rats, and now, uh, hopefully in dogs here pretty soon through, uh, something called the DogAgingProject, um, .org, which I actually, um, helped fund their most recent study, uh, out of the University of Washington.

    7. TF

      You and me both.

    8. KR

      Yeah, I didn't know you a- did that as well. That's awesome.

    9. TF

      Yeah.

    10. KR

      Yeah, so essentially they're, we're hoping that this will also translate ... I mean, they've already shown improvements in, in dog cardiovascular health and, um, in aging dogs, and it, it looks like it's working in terms of, of extending life in, in dogs. And the, the hope there, and, uh, Teal will talk about this on his podcast. I mean, he's been taking it for a couple years now, a low dose. The hope there is that it'll actually extend life in humans as well. So I decided to try an eight-week cycle of it. I did it. Uh, people vary on what they believe is the correct dosage and the correct duration, and whether you should cycle it or not, and there's a bunch of like, you know, just unknowns right there.

    11. TF

      Mm-hmm.

    12. KR

      So I just wanted to see what it would do, if I'd notice anything different. Like I had some knee, uh, joint pain in my right knee that hadn't gone away for a few months. That went away. Um, but you know, I stopped it and, and-

    13. TF

      The barnacles on your right testicle, you told me about those. How-

    14. KR

      They're gone.

    15. TF

      They're gone.

    16. KR

      They're, they're gone now.

    17. TF

      [laughs]

    18. KR

      Yeah, clean as a whistle.

    19. TF

      [laughs]

    20. KR

      Like a, a couple of boiled eggs down there, just beautiful.

    21. TF

      [laughs]

    22. KR

      [laughs] This is what happens when we introduce champagne into the episode.

    23. TF

      [laughs] Yeah.

    24. KR

      Be- beer and champagne people, it goes straight to the head.

    25. TF

      [laughs] Yeah.

    26. KR

      They, I'm sure they'll wanna sponsor the next episode. [laughs] Okay. So, um, so the Dog Aging Project, uh, you know, I figured, well, Mr. Toast, uh, who's sitting behind me on the video, you know, he's looking so alive right now. [laughs] He's like, he looks like he's dead.

    27. TF

      Looks like a tuna fish laid out on the beach. [laughs]

    28. KR

      [laughs] Yeah, exactly. So, um, so yeah, Toaster is 11 now and, uh, I decided like let's get him on the dose that they're using in the Dog Aging Project. And I'm not joking, Tim, like there is a absolute difference. Absolute difference.

    29. TF

      Hmm.

    30. KR

      Like Dara and I will tell you that he jumps ... So he didn't ... He, you know, he's having some hip issues as he's getting older, like his hips like kind of slip out from underneath him from time to time. And, um, especially it doesn't help that we have concrete floors and it makes it a little more slippery for him. But, um, he's jumping up on people now when they come in the house and, and including us. And just the level of excitement and kind of energy and everything else that's come out of him, and he's been on it for about two months now. It's just, it, it is working. So I have no-

  5. 19:21 – 27:45

    More experiments: Ozempic for glucose control, plus saffron gummies and mood chews

    1. KR

      Oh, so dude, I've got a couple crazy things. So I've, I've been playing, you know? It's like you, you go through these, these times when you don't do any biohacking stuff and then you go, go deep, and I started a new drug called Ozempic, and the reason I did this, uh, is a couple reasons. One, I've always had poor glucose control, so when I did a glucose tolerance test, which is basically you go to your doctor, they make you drink 100% glucose, like a pure sugar drink-

    2. TF

      Mm-hmm

    3. KR

      ... and then they draw your blood, and they check your insulin levels and your glu- glucose levels, and they check it every 30 minutes for like two hours. And they wanna see how high does it get and how long does it stay that high, and how quickly do you return back to your baseline. And mine, I've always had what's called bad, poor glucose disposal, and, uh, Attia was the first to detect this in me. And there's a bunch of stuff you can do. You can do zone two cardio, you can sensitize your muscles, like you can do a lot of things that will, will suck up glucose and, and get you back quicker. But there was this drug that came out called Ozempic, and it's been out for a while now, that, um, does a few things. One, it helps lower glucose, which is great. It is a subcutaneous injection, so it's a little tiny pen that you get. They send it to you. You know, you get it from your pharmacy. You push this little pen against your stomach, and you don't even feel it, 'cause it goes in a quarter of an inch. It does this little tiny injection of .25 milligrams. But they also showed that it reduced, there was a 39% reduction in non-fatal stroke and a 26% relative risk reduction of a major cardiac event, which on, on my family's side, my, my dad and my grandfather both died from heart disease and heart attacks, and s- and, well, it was heart attack with my dad and the stroke in my grandpa. And so for me, it, it, I, uh, while I'm not diabetic, it's a no-brainer. And guess, get this, the, the number one side effect is weight loss. And so I've had a couple buddies-

    4. TF

      [laughs]

    5. KR

      ... that, I have one, one buddy that's been on it for seven months, lost 15 pounds of, of belly fat and looks great now. Another buddy just started a couple months ago, lost like, he's lost five pounds of belly fat, and I, I like those Portland beers. And I was just like, I, this is gonna be a great little like, you know, nice little trimming, you know? If I, if I can get that benefit as well, so.

    6. TF

      [laughs]

    7. KR

      But I, I will say there are side effects that are unpleasant as well, so let me tell you w- w-

    8. TF

      It's not just like magical Bitcoins appear in your wallet-

    9. KR

      [laughs]

    10. TF

      ... and your penis gets larger, and you [laughs] lose belly fat. Sounds great.

    11. KR

      I mean, if you find that drug, I'm in.

    12. TF

      [laughs]

    13. KR

      But, um, so this one's tricky because a lot of doctors will prescribe it at .5 milligrams versus .25, and at .5 you get some nausea for the first couple days. And it's intermittent, so it's not like nonstop nausea, but y- what some doctors do, including mine, is a slow ramp. So I, I started-

    14. TF

      Yeah

    15. KR

      ... at .25, and you do it for about four weeks, and then you go up to .5, then y- with the goal of getting to one milligram once a week. And so that's, that's exciting. I, I'm really excited for Ozempic. That, that's ... So a couple other really quick ones, unless do you have any to throw in? Have you been trying anything new?

    16. TF

      [laughs] Well, I have been trying things new, but I'm gonna, I'm gonna save that for the-

    17. KR

      Save that for the COVID? [laughs]

    18. TF

      The category of COVID, yes. Please continue.

    19. KR

      All right, so a couple other things. Fantastic article we c- which we can put in the show notes from The Atlantic where they did, um, they found the Prozac of the Middle Ages is what they called it.

    20. TF

      [laughs]

    21. KR

      And so back in the Middle Ages, there used to be, they found out there were these nuns that used to get high off of, uh, taking saffron. So saffron, like you have in cooking food-

    22. TF

      [laughs]

    23. KR

      ... is a very potent happy drug. And they used to have these people called these croakers, were the, who were these people that they harvest saffron. And they would have to take a break when they were packaging the saffron to avoid getting the giggles, 'cause they would laugh so much from just packaging and smelling the stuff.

    24. TF

      [laughs]

    25. KR

      And so saffron is super, it, it's almost like a happy drug, like a Prozac. But, so I was doing some res- search, and I was like, okay, maybe they'll have it in supplement form. I found some like shady stuff on Amazon. I was like, I'm not gonna do this. But this company I, I finally found one that I trust is OLLY brand, O-L-L-Y. You've probably seen it before.

    26. TF

      Mm.

    27. KR

      And you can, you can look it up in your show notes. It, they call it the Happy Gummy Worms, and they offer gummy worms now-

    28. TF

      [laughs]

    29. KR

      ... that are infused with saffron, with a, a, a good enough dose to get you a little bit of that, that happy feeling, like this mood boost.

    30. TF

      A little bit of the croakies.

  6. 27:45 – 35:23

    COVID advice overload, isolation viewing, and feel-good TV recommendations

    1. TF

      Yeah. Not very helpful, as I've, uh, as I've learned. I keep, I keep giving these teasers. I will say that when I was diagnosed with COVID, the very first thing I realized is if I were to take the advice of everyone sending me advice right now, I would almost certainly die of several dozen contraindications. [laughs] You just-

    2. KR

      Just give me a little taste before we get into it. What was the weirdest thing somebody told you to do?

    3. TF

      [laughs] Oh, God.

    4. KR

      Don't, not the whale thing that I joked about.

    5. TF

      [laughs] Well, we were, I have to, I have to just say that we were joking about whale semen, I think gargling with whale semen or something, or you said that. I wanna give you proper credit. And then I was joking with another friend of mine who asked me the same question. He's like, "What's the, what's the best advice you've received?" And I said, "Well, I think somebody told me to gargle [laughs] with horse semen." I used horse semen. And he said, [laughs] "You know, actually, it would be great if after you recover, you talk about this seriously as like an April Fools' joke-

    6. KR

      [laughs] No

    7. TF

      ... because people would be jerking off horses around the planet. It would be the best prank ever." Uh, I did not end up deciding that would be a good idea. But, um, uh, I mean, the most hair-brained kind of craziness you can imagine. Uh, I mean, every alternative remedy possible. So you pick, you pick it, there was a recommendation, right? It just, it, it kinda doesn't matter. And, uh, we, we can come back to this, but it's-

    8. KR

      Okay

    9. TF

      ... it is interrelated with the problem of determining, not just determining causation, but avoiding contraindications, which is really, really, really important. So we'll come back to that.

    10. KR

      Right.

    11. TF

      And, uh, part of the reason I keep delaying this, folks, if they're just like, "Why the tease? Why the tease?" is because people get crazy [laughs] on both sides. I've noticed that, you know, the, the people on far ends of the sort of conspiracy spectrum or on the political spectrum are kind of like a, a horseshoe when it comes to COVID. They, like, bend around towards each other, and they actually get very, very similar. So there's no way for me not to upset people when I talk about, uh, COVID and the various steps that I took and so on.

    12. KR

      Oh, I'm excited to hear this. Yeah, we'll save that for the end.

    13. TF

      We'll save it. And it may be a disappointing punchline for folks, but that's why we're pushing off, 'cause we have a lot of fun stuff to talk about. I will say, let me throw something in related, which was when I was isolating, so as soon as I was diagnosed, I ended up isolating about 24 hours or 36 hours later. I first sequestered myself upstairs. My girlfriend stayed downstairs, and then I ended up isolating myself in a separate location so that my girlfriend wouldn't get sick. And I found Comedians in Cars Getting Coffee to be a-

    14. KR

      Cure

    15. TF

      ... an incredible [laughs]

    16. KR

      [laughs] Cure my COVID, grandma.

    17. TF

      No, it's not a cure. I found it to be extremely psychologically helpful and a real gem of a discovery when I was stuck in this apartment by myself for- 10 days. And so I would, I would make a habit of watching two or three episodes when I got up, and two or three episodes if I got really tired, you know, two or three episodes right before bed, and it allowed me to, obviously in a synthetic way, but to interact with people and to feel like I was socializing on some level. I loved it. So I really, really, really applaud, uh, Jerry Seinfeld for first and foremost designing a format for himself that is [laughs] the most, the most fun and ease he could possibly have in putting together a show. And for people who don't know the format, he basically, he gets to drive, he likes classic cars and cars in general, so he gets to drive an incredible classic car, different classic car every episode, and he goes to pick up one of his friends to go get coffee and bullshit and talk about comedy and life and so on, and it gets cut down to 17 minutes. It's, it's, it's just a genius format. After coming out of the show Seinfeld in the '90s, which was, I don't want to say a death march, that's, that's too severe, but it's so much work, right? So much incredible work to put that show together and to sustain it for that long.

    18. KR

      Yeah.

    19. TF

      So to do the opposite and create a format that is really fun, really easy, an excuse to hang out with your friends, kinda like The Random Show, quite frankly, uh, it was great. So I, I really recommend people check out Comedians in Cars Getting Coffee. I watched it on Netflix. Uh, Bob Einstein is probably my favorite episode. That's Super Dave. Larry David, also amazing. Sarah Silverman, always incredible. Garry Shandling. Lotta old-timers, some, uh, some of which are no longer with us, uh, are kinda captured for posterity. So highly recommend Comedians in Cars Getting Coffee.

    20. KR

      Speaking of things that just make you feel good, have you watched Ted Lasso?

    21. TF

      I have not watched Ted Lasso yet.

    22. KR

      Oh, dude.

    23. TF

      It's been recommended at least 1,001 times to me, and I haven't watched it yet.

    24. KR

      Tim and everyone else though that hasn't watched it, uh, and everyone that has watched it is screaming right now, "Yes, please, Tim, l- watch this." You have to see Ted Lasso. It is really, really good.

    25. TF

      It is on the to-watch list. What my girlfriend and I have been slowly chipping away at when we watch something short together, because we're not always in the mood to watch something that's 90 minutes or two hours long, like a feature film.

    26. KR

      Yeah.

    27. TF

      So we'll watch Schitt's Creek, and we're making our way through-

    28. KR

      Yeah

    29. TF

      ... all the seasons of Schitt's Creek, which is amazing. But Ted Lasso, I remember polling on social at one point, like, "What series should I binge-watch next? It needs to be of a certain length, and it needs to be, first and foremost, feel-good," right?

    30. KR

      Yes. Oh, dude, it's the ultimate feel-good.

  7. 35:23 – 41:25

    NFT utilities: wine-club memberships, resale mechanics, and smart-contract royalties

    1. KR

      So NFTs, I got the hook. But anyway, so yeah, I guess there's a couple things to mention. One, people should be aware of just an overarching trend that's happening in NFTs that is without a doubt the future, so it's just important that, that people should know about this. Like, Sarah Jessica Parker just, uh, launched an NFT for her wine, and at first, you think, everyone that thinks about NFTs, they think about these are just pictures, they're photos, they're JPEGs, they're being captured in the blockchain, they're, people are trying to pretend they're art or whatever, and they're selling them.

    2. TF

      [laughs]

    3. KR

      And they don't necessarily think about actually the technology and how it can be applied to different things. And what they have done with her wine company, and what she has done that's really impressive, is they've used NFTs as utilities. And so what I mean by that is if you collect one of her wine NFTs, it's not about saying, "This is a piece of art I'm gonna hold in my home." It's about i- showing ownership over m- membership of something. So it's a membership to her wine club. So you get your wine allocation based on the fact that you actually hold one of these NFTs. So that may sound boring, but if you think about it, it's really interesting in that now that can be resold to someone else. Let's say I buy an allocation of her wine-

    4. TF

      Well, that, that was gonna be my main question. Not to interrupt, but I will.

    5. KR

      Yeah.

    6. TF

      That you c- like, wine clubs have existed for a long time.

    7. KR

      Right.

    8. TF

      Or you have, like, s- Soho House, and you have memberships. So people have figured out how to have exclusive memberships. So is the ... unique aspect of this that the sale of that NFT cannot, or in this case, isn't being constrained.

    9. KR

      Right.

    10. TF

      Is that what it is?

    11. KR

      Well, think of it this way. Okay, so let's think about some of the most scarce things in the wine world, and, and, and let's talk about Napa Valley for a second. There are two wineries that are w- far and above like the cult, like, hottest wineries in Napa Valley. It's Screaming Eagle and it's Harlan Estate, and I, I, I say that with a slight conflict 'cause I'm on the advisory board of Harlan Estate. But these-

    12. TF

      [laughs]

    13. KR

      Well, it, it's fantastic wine. It really is. It's, there's, the, everyone would agree with that statement that's in the wine world.

    14. TF

      It is.

    15. KR

      Now, imagine you-

    16. TF

      Don't exclude me just 'cause I'm not in the wine world. I enjoy Harlan Estate.

    17. KR

      Yeah, you know what, you know what's up.

    18. TF

      Well, it's usually when I'm just riding on your coattails, but that's okay.

    19. KR

      But imagine, like, i- i- Harlan, uh, you know, let, well, let's take Screaming Eagle, 'cause I don't wanna like, you know, like shill my own stuff here. So Screaming Eagle is, like, I believe it's around $4,000 a bottle right now, which is just madness.

    20. TF

      Oof.

    21. KR

      Right? But the wait list to get on their actual allocation is something like 20 to 30 years. So that means if you go to their website today and say, "I want to sign up for your wine program," it's gonna take you 20 to 30 years to even get considered to be offered an allocation, and that's not just because they're being dicks. It's actually a very small producer, so they don't have a lot of wine to sell, right? So they have to wait for people to kind of c- come off of that wait list. Now-

    22. TF

      Now, in fairness, they could expand production if they wanted, but they know how to constrain supply 'cause it's ultra-premium, right?

    23. KR

      Well, yes and no, but they, they have this hillside that is very, has very specific climate, very specific soil conditions, like, that you can't just grow that without compromising some quality, right?

    24. TF

      Yeah.

    25. KR

      So there, there's other ways. You could do a sub-brand or something like that. You could expand. They actually have one called Second Flight, which is like their, their smaller, less expensive $500 bottle kind of sub-brand type thing. But so imagine membership is no longer about someone retiring and the new person coming on, but about it being a liquid environment. So if you ha- if I had a membership, I'm like, "Tim, I want to get rid of my Screaming Eagle membership. I bought it when this NFT was $100 10 years ago," and now what would that cost? I bet you that membership would go for 25, $50,000 or more, and so now that can be resold and tr-

    26. TF

      You're talking about Screaming Eagle?

    27. KR

      Yes. Or-

    28. TF

      Oh, minimum. Are you kidding me?

    29. KR

      Yes. Yeah, exactly.

    30. TF

      I mean, if the bottle costs four grand, it's just bragging.

  8. 41:25 – 46:02

    Kevin’s Proof NFT: membership perks, resale, and why he’s building in Web3

    1. KR

      It is so cool, and it's coming. So anyway, that's a little preamble on what is going on in the industry. So I have, um, a, a little announcement to make. So I have a podcast called Proof that is all about covering the NFT space. I've been very lucky to get, uh, be early in the space and get a lot of, of listeners, and I'm gonna launch a utility NFT for my listeners. So I'm gonna do 1,000 NFTs that are utility, and they will unlock early access to podcasts, a private collectors only Discord, and unfortunately, a bunch of perks that I have planned but I can't talk about. I d- I talked to some legal counsel and they always say, "Don't promise things. Like, over deliver, but don't make any outrageous promises." But rest assured, I'm gonna do everything in my power to make sure that this membership is just awesome. But Tim, uh, I don't want this to be a commercial. I, I think this is gonna apply to all podcasts, dude. Like, I think that-

    2. TF

      Yeah

    3. KR

      ... there's a world where, in my mind, i- i- I don't know. You might cut this out. You might cut this out if I say it, but I'm gonna say it anyway.

    4. TF

      [laughs]

    5. KR

      Don't cut it out.

    6. TF

      You do this every other Random Show, and I usually keep it in. Go ahead.

    7. KR

      Okay, so-

    8. TF

      We'll see

    9. KR

      ... I would buy one of your NFTs just not to hear your ads, dude. Like, if I could c-

    10. TF

      [laughs]

    11. KR

      If, uh, if I could get a Tim utility NFT, cut out the ads, get access to episodes and behind the scenes, like additional extended footage, like, this is where things are gonna go. Like, you'll hold something and whoever the creator is is gonna provide additional benefits, you know, like additional things for their audience.

    12. TF

      Yeah.

    13. KR

      And so I'm, I'm telling you in the next two years you'll see so many podcasts adopting this type of model. Not just podcasts, but sites in, in general will be adopting this type of model.

    14. TF

      So if someone buys KevKev NFT-

    15. KR

      It's called Proof, the Proof NFT. [laughs]

    16. TF

      [laughs]

    17. KR

      I, I love that you're trying to rename it KevKev.

    18. TF

      KevKev.

    19. KR

      But yeah.

    20. TF

      KevKev. [laughs] So, so when people buy the Proof KevKev NFT-

    21. KR

      Yeah

    22. TF

      ... they could also flip that and sell-

    23. KR

      Yes

    24. TF

      ... that six months later to give someone else the same access.

    25. KR

      That's right. You sell the NFT off to someone else, and then they immediately receive all the perks going forward from that point.

    26. TF

      You're such a crafty little monkey. You really are.

    27. KR

      Dude, you're gonna be doing this. You know this could be applicable to what you're doing.

    28. TF

      I know it could be. Quite honestly, I feel like, I feel like I've been thinking and cogitating and meditating on this too long, and honestly, the novelty of all of this will have worn off by the time I do anything, and therefore, I have less interest. But maybe I'm wrong. Maybe I'm wrong. I don't, I don't know. I'm curious, though, to hear from you, why do this? Like, you have a great life, great setup, got plenty of things to keep you busy. Why do this, of all things that you could do? Like, what do you get out of this? I mean, of course, you could get income from the initial sales of, of the KevKev, [laughs] I'm kidding, the Proof NFT. But there has to be other reasons. So why are you doing this?

    29. KR

      I mean, this is, this is, at my core, it's one of the, the, the Proof podcast is probably, since Dignation, it is, and you know, obviously our show-

    30. TF

      That we do here on the Random Show.

  9. 46:02 – 1:00:32

    Marfa braintrust: DAOs explained and the “DilDAO” domain idea

    1. KR

      We gotta tell them what a DAO is first.

    2. TF

      Yeah, all right. So, well, DAO has come up a couple times on the podcast.

    3. KR

      Okay.

    4. TF

      A DAO is a... Go for it.

    5. KR

      So i- in the world of, of Web3 and crypto, there's something called the DAO. It's a decentralized autonomous organization. It basically means a fancy way of saying a group of people coming together, decentralized, meaning, like, independently, to work on something together, work on a project together, uh, collect NFTs together, whatever it may be. So a DAO is a very common... It's like a new legal, like it's like saying like a new corporation or a new LLC.

    6. TF

      Yeah.

    7. KR

      So there's all these DAOs. There's Flamingo DAO. There's, like, Meta DAO. There's Neon DAO, Friends With Benefits. There's so many.

    8. TF

      Million of them, and there are gonna be a billion more of them.

    9. KR

      Okay, go ahead.

    10. TF

      So you can use them, or I should say design them, for many, many different purposes. And so [laughs] for the few days that we're in Marfa, everyone's drinking booze. We're routinely just coming up with more and more ridiculous DAOs that could be. And, and then-

    11. KR

      Right. I wanted the TimTim DAO. The TimTim DAO-

    12. TF

      Yeah, the Tim-

    13. KR

      ... would be huge.

    14. TF

      Right, the TimTim DAO.

    15. KR

      Yeah.

    16. TF

      And then I thought, I was, for whatever reason, thinking of cartoons, because as you mentioned, I used to be an illustrator and paid a lot of my expenses in college as a, as a graphic illustrator for magazines and so on. And I was thinking of cartoons, and then I realized, "Oh my God, I need to send a text [laughs] to Scott Adams." So for those who don't know, I'll actually back into it. So the DAO is called DilDAO. [laughs] D-I-L D-A-O. [laughs] And the DilDAO would be a DAO for fans of Dilbert, and one of the most successful comic strips of all time. And so I texted Scott Adams. [laughs]

    17. KR

      We're drinking, and you, you texted him. [laughs]

    18. TF

      Yeah, I texted him, and I was like, "Trust me on this. Please just go out and buy dildao.com, dildao.xyz," something like that. And he replied. Given that he hasn't heard from me in, God knows, you know, three or four years, I think it was a very, uh, polite response, given the, the absurdity of my text. And it was something like, "Hi, Tim. Great to hear from you. I think I need a little more context." [laughs]

    19. KR

      [laughs]

    20. TF

      So there you have it, DilDAO. It may be taken. It may not. So the r- the race goes to the swift. Uh, what the hell were we talking about? Oh, we were talking about Web3 and how excited you are, and I should also say-

    21. KR

      Yeah

    22. TF

      ... yes, I'm very excited. I encourage people to listen to my conversation with Chris Dixon and Naval Ravikant that really goes kind of soup to nuts with a lot of this stuff. What I would be interested to know from you is if, if we look at some of the benefits that you're offering, right? Like, you are in a very unique, very, very unique and not accidental position at all. You have, you have, you have navigated the world of Web3 and NFT so brilliantly. I have to give credit where credit is due, and I've said this to a number of friends of mine. I'm like, "Man, it's like this-" ... playing field is so perfectly designed for Kevin's superpowers, right? Like, they don't apply in all places. They don't line up in all places, but like [laughs]

    23. KR

      No, they don't.

    24. TF

      Your weird quirks, and nerdiness, and superpowers all line up for this fucking weird thing called Web3-

    25. KR

      [laughs] Yeah

    26. TF

      ... specifically NFTs. It's hilarious. It's just like, every time I get news, f- and I obviously, uh, a lot of it is private, and I'm just like, "Of course. Of course this is working." Amazing. So congratulations, and it's fun to watch. But I, I wanna-

    27. KR

      Thank you

    28. TF

      ... ask you, what's some of, let's say I did my own NFT, uh, or something along these lines, what might some of the benefits be that I would provide that would not be stripping out ads? They could be, but quite frankly, I've tested this before with memberships. Ultimately, it turned out that most of my fans, or I shouldn't say most, but a lot of my fans recognize the vetting and selection that I do with products. They don't mind it, and they would rather hear the ads than pay. That just seems to be true for the vast majority of my audience. They can fast-forward. They would much prefer to let sponsors shoulder the burden of keeping the podcast going and growing than pay, even 15 bucks a month. Doesn't matter, they don't wanna do it. Now, maybe that changes once they have an asset that could appreciate. Maybe it changes. I don't know if just the economic model has some difference, but what are some other benefits that I might be able to provide that are not going to make me want to smash my head through, uh, a car door window because I'm like, "Why did I ever agree to do all of these things?"

    29. KR

      Yeah. Well, I think, uh, on the, on the ads thing, just touching on that briefly, there are gonna be, uh, let's just call it, you know, 50,000 people or something that are, would love to have a no-ad version of, of your show, right? It may not be-

    30. TF

      Yeah

  10. 1:00:32 – 1:03:19

    Tim’s crypto-for-good update: Saisei Foundation donations via Endowment

    1. TF

      So it's Snowfro, who is the founder of Art Blocks, introduced me to a nonprofit called Endowment, and this is another great name, so E-N-D-A-O-M-E-N-T.org, endowment.org. And he introduced me to them because they help nonprofits accept cryptocurrency donations. And it's a, it's a very cool, you know, effectively company, I mean, organization. In this case, they have, they have a nonprofit arm. Uh, I believe Giving Block is a for-profit company that do- takes a very different approach but is complementary. If you're a larger organization, uh, nonprofit or f- uh, you know, 501 [c] [3] that wants to accept cryptocurrency but doesn't really have the knowledge or desire to develop the expertise around crypto, these are two ways to do it. And so I was introduced to Robbie and Zach at Endowment, and they helped get the Saisei Foundation set up on Endowment. So if anybody out there is looking to back a proven player who really picks good shots within the scientific research fields, and that includes many different things, but predominantly focused on psychedelic medicine and, uh, addressing things like treatment-resistant depression, opioid use disorder, so different types of addiction, and many, many other things, uh, then you can go to, uh, just endowment, that's E-N-D-A-O-M-E-N-T, .org/saisei, S-A-I-S-E-I. And, uh, we'll, we'll include a link in the show notes at tim.blog/podcast. But, uh, y- if you want to type the whole thing out, it's just app, A-P-P, .endowment.org/saisei. And Saisei, I'm surprised I probably haven't mentioned this before, the name of the foundation means a whole bunch of things in Japanese. I used to live in Japan, went to a Japanese school. I love Japanese culture and the Japanese language. Saisei means rebirth or to be born again, and that is how many people feel after undergoing properly administered psychedelic therapy or psychedelic-assisted therapy. So that's why the name is Saisei. So people can check it out.

    2. KR

      That's so cool.

    3. TF

      Yeah, it's great. I'm excited about it, and it's also a way for me to feel really good about engaging with it.

    4. KR

      You were so early on this and nailed it before it was, you know, cool. Like, I feel like all the universities these days are like, "How do we add psychedelics to our roster?" And it's like, this is, um, you know, it's a snowball that kind of, I feel like in many ways you started, which is, which is awesome to see.

  11. 1:03:19 – 1:11:13

    Psychedelic policy momentum and ketamine-at-home (Mindbloom) perspective

    1. TF

      Thanks, man. Thanks. Yeah, it's, uh, it's been really, really exciting to see a lot of what has happened in the last handful of years and, uh, just to see how far it's come politically also. Uh, there's, there's, there's a lot of room left for improvement, but just last week on Veterans Day, that was November 11th, I was in Coronado, which is in San Diego, basically, and I'm pulling up my Twitter profile for a second because I can give you the actual website, which I would like to do. I was there for a benefit for vets. On Twitter it's the handle @VetsForVets, but they had a Strength in Numbers gala to end veteran suicide. And the website for vets is vetsolutions.org. They sponsor psychedelic treatments for veterans and have a particular focus, I believe, not exclusively, but have worked with many Navy SEALs, therefore the location in Coronado. And the reason I bring it up is that I was on stage with, uh, Governor Rick Perry, uh, so former governor, I guess he's the 47th, I want to say, governor of Texas, uh, former Secretary of Energy, Republican, and right next to him was Rick Doblin, founder of maps.org, which is doing incredible work, including phase three trials for MDMA-assisted psychotherapy for PTSD, so they have many veterans involved with this, who is as far left as you can go, right? Sort of hyper ... I, I, and again, I, these are, these are maybe exaggerated terms, but kind of like hyper-conservative, hyper-liberal, sitting on the same stage, uh, disagreeing on many things, but agreeing completely on the value of psychedelic medicine for these conditions like PTSD.

    2. KR

      That's amazing.

    3. TF

      It's really kind of mind-blowing, pun intended, to see how we were in a scientific winter and a policy winter basically for 50 or 60 years after the Nixon administration, and in the last 18 months, really, uh, last two years perhaps, there's just been this flash boil, and so much has happened. So, uh, cautiously, cautiously optimistic, and I, I do think that Saisei Foundation will continue to be on the forefront, seeing around corners and looking at things that are not yet, uh, on the mainstream radar at all. So I'm excited.

    4. KR

      That's awesome. It's great that it t- takes crypto. Like, anyone can ... I see here you just connect your wallet and you can donate crypto and it's good to go.

    5. TF

      Yeah. Yeah, and I want to give also some credit where credit is due. Uh, I ended up there because I was invited by a friend of mine, former team member named Nick Norris. So I want to thank him for inviting me to the, uh, to participate in the event, and I also want to give thanks to all of the sponsors who supported that event, including Future Ventures, and, uh, I'm an LP in Future Ventures. But, uh, you know, Steve and Genevieve Jurvetson were there, who were kind enough to host me and allow me to sit at their table, and it was just, uh, an incredible event. So I'm super excited about what is to come in, in 2022.

    6. KR

      One question I had for you, um, a friend of mine, she recently did, um, ketamine therapy for, um, depression.

    7. TF

      Mm-hmm.

    8. KR

      And there's actually a startup that I'm not affiliated with at all, I don't even know the founders, called Mindbloom. Have you heard of this?

    9. TF

      Yeah. Okay, so I'm s- I'm, I'm very glad you brought it up. I have thoughts on Mindbloom, so continue. I can, I can speak to it.

    10. KR

      Uh, no, they just, i- it's interesting because what she did is she signed up for it, a- and normally people think of ketamine as like an, uh, like an IV t- treatment that you go into a clinic and all of that, and it's, you know, that's kind of hardcore to get stuck up with an IV, and it, n- you know, you know, you have to be a certain ... Some people are very, like, not cool with needles, right? So-

    11. TF

      Right

    12. KR

      ... this is actually a pill that they, or pills that they mail to your house. They, uh, pair you with a, a therapist, and she was, was saying fantastic things about it. Um, it's kinda home therapy, only available in, like, a dozen or so states right now. But ketamine treatment at home, I just wanted to know what your thoughts were.

    13. TF

      I started off incredibly skeptical and concerned with telemedicine as applied to psychedelic experiences. Uh, a- and that extended to ketamine, because I, I do think that there are, even with some psychedelic compounds, probably with all, but, eh, to a lesser extent with some and to a greater extent with others, the potential for abuse. And so I was, I, I had a lot of questions around telemedicine, particularly when you're dealing with remote/virtual administration of drugs. And ketamine, for those who don't know, it's a dissociative anesthetic. It is, uh, generally speaking, extremely safe. It is, uh, widely used. I believe it's one of the 100 most essential medicines as defined by the World Health Organization, because as an anesthetic, it, and again, double-check everything with your doctor, but my understanding is it, it's, it's famous for being inexpensive and not suppressing respiration.

    14. KR

      Hmm.

    15. TF

      So it has a great risk, risk profile. And, uh, some people will say, "Oh, that's a horse tranquilizer." That's not really accurate. It is, it is used in veterinary medicine, but it's very widely used in humans.

    16. KR

      So many horse drugs these days. There are a lot of hot-

    17. TF

      [laughs]

    18. KR

      ... horse drugs. [laughs]

    19. TF

      A lot of hot horse drugs.

    20. KR

      A lot of hot horse therapy out there these days. [laughs]

    21. TF

      [laughs] Those, those people need to take a closer look at these horses. [laughs]

    22. KR

      Exactly. These hor- these horses got it figured out.

    23. TF

      Yeah. [laughs]

    24. KR

      They beat COVID, they've, they've done everything.

    25. TF

      [laughs] Those horses have it all figured out. Oh, God. Yeah, so-

    26. KR

      [laughs]

    27. TF

      You know what? I'm gonna, I'm gonna share just a quick side note which y- you will get, I'm pretty sure, but it's definitely, the reference is gonna be lost on a lot of people. I was sent this, [laughs] this gif, uh, of, it's, it's, it's a drawing of the two arms in Predator with Arnold Schwarzenegger, and Dylan where he's like, "Dylan, you son of a bitch," and they, like, slap their hands together, and they're basically, like, arm wrestling with their biceps showing. And it's, uh, it's one, like, gigantic white arm, which is Arnold Schwarzenegger, and then one gigantic muscular Black arm, uh, which, uh, Carl Weathers, I believe. I mean, just both incredibly jacked, and they're like-

    28. KR

      Yeah

    29. TF

      ... baby oiled up, and it's [laughs] this, like, extremely long handshake just for the glamour shot. And I was sent this, this painting of this and it sa- [laughs]

    30. KR

      [laughs]

  12. 1:11:13 – 1:21:50

    Tim’s COVID timeline: likely exposure, rapid tests, and decision-making under uncertainty

    1. KR

      So wait, wait, wait. I get a text from Tim.

    2. TF

      [laughs]

    3. KR

      It's two COVID tests. You're texting me in SOC. I think we can say that.

    4. TF

      Yeah, yeah.

    5. KR

      And the, it's two, it's two COVID tests, and it's like they're both, like, clear red-lined, and you're like, I mean, you didn't say, "Fuck," but you were just like, "Shit," like, "This, this happened."

    6. TF

      Here we go.

    7. KR

      What was the first, like, walk me through it. Like, you just woke up one morning and was like, "I just don't feel right," or what happened?

    8. TF

      Yeah, I'll walk you through it. So this is about two and a half weeks ago now, I want to say, something like that, and it was, if, if I look back, as you know, I've been very, very careful.

    9. KR

      So careful.

    10. TF

      Began tracking COVID an- end of January, beginning of February 2020, put up a blog post which was very moderate, super moderate, and, uh, ultimately, you know, in the subsequent weeks encouraged South by Southwest to cancel, and, uh, was kinda dragged over the coals at the time. And then of course COVID turned into what COVID turned into, and have been, have been very careful, uh, not because I assume that it is instantaneous death, that is not what I assume, but because I have preexisting respiratory issues, very well-established respiratory issues, and, uh, there were a lot of unknowns. There continue to be a lot of unknowns related to COVID-19, and I wanted to delay getting it as long as possible. Uh, so, uh, a- and, and looking at the lifestyle calculus, it was very easy for me to mitigate risk without making huge sacrifices. So I saw a lot of potential upside and very limited downside to taking certain precautions. I ended up going to F1, so Formula 1, in Austin, where at least in the, in the paddock everyone had been, I believe, both vaccinated and tested negative with a PCR test within 48 or 72 hours. W- Where I think I contracted it, because there are so few options because I've been so careful, there are so few options where I would've been exposed. What I think happened is I succumbed to social pressure, and the way it happened is I had, uh, I had taken a car by myself to and from, uh, Circuit of the Americas, from COTA, each day, and then on the last day getting back, I had not... I had made some mistake and there was a, a snafu with transportation. And so I ended up getting kind of directed to a location to transportation, which I assumed meant I would be able to get a one-on-one ride back to the city, since trying to find parking is just impossible.

    11. KR

      Yeah.

    12. TF

      I mean, there were 400,000 people there over three days. So I, I end up in a golf cart driven, like, a half a mile to this point. Ev- It's complete pandemonium, right? Like, everyone is trying to leave COTA at the same time, and I get directed to this van, and it's like, "There's your ride." Now, I had taken a van to the event that day, but I was one of three people in the van, and we spaced out and so on, and I also had a mask. On the way back, I open the door of the van and it's packed, right? It's like a 12-seater with 12 people or 11 people so that I could fit in, and they're like, "Okay, yeah, hop on in. We're headed downtown." And I was like, "Oh, fuck. I don't want to do this, but at least where I was, everyone was tested. Fuck, fuck, fuck. Whatever." And then I got in, and I sat down, and it's like there was this one, like, model chick vaping in the fucking van.

    13. KR

      [laughs]

    14. TF

      I mean, it was terrible. And I'm just sitting there, like, reading my Kindle, and I'm like, "If I'm gonna get fucking COVID, it is gonna be right now here." And then about five days later, started feeling very, very congested and, uh, began to develop a really severe headache, and I attributed it to allergies in Austin, because Austin has really, really bad allergies. You have cedar or juniper ash, you have ragweed, you have all sorts of allergens that cause really severe reactions in people. Uh, so I just assumed it was allergies, and then I was getting ready to pack to get on a flight to go to New Orleans for a friend's 50th birthday and Halloween, and we were... By, by m- basically my request, everyone was going to be PCR tested [laughs] when they landed, and we had, my girlfriend and I, Binax kits at home. So we had Abbott-manufactured rapid antigen tests at home. And I, I was feeling congested, and so she very wisely suggested, "Well, before we get on the plane and pack and do all this stuff, why don't you take one before we go?" And I did, just as a formality, right? Kept packing, da, da, da, da, and I came back and I'm like, "Oh, shit, that looks positive."

    15. KR

      Oh, shit.

    16. TF

      And I don't know what the accuracy... There, there are different ways to assess these tests, but let's just say that it's 85% accurate, and Peter Attia could give you a much better description, right?

    17. KR

      Well, I think it's one of those things when it's, it's, if it has a positive, it's more likely to be positive, uh, but it can miss... You know what I'm talking about?

    18. TF

      Yeah.

    19. KR

      Like, there's-

    20. TF

      Right, I do, but also if you just take two tests or three tests-

    21. KR

      Right

    22. TF

      ... right, you can, you can get the likelihood of two false positives down to, say, less than 5%. So-

    23. KR

      So let me ask you a question. The one thing I'm always curious about these things, 'cause we've all done these at home, or at least a few of us have that are listening, how quickly did that other line show up? I always wonder. Does that line sh-

    24. TF

      Within, within, within five minutes. It showed up so quickly.

    25. KR

      Oh, so it wasn't like wa- 'Cause they're always like, "Wait 15 minutes," and I'm always waiting.

    26. TF

      No, it-

    27. KR

      Okay.

    28. TF

      No, it, it, it popped up really quickly, and then did the second test and it popped up really quickly, and I was like, "Well, this looks like a positive." And at that point, went immediately into action mode. I didn't panic at that point. I'm very good in cris- uh, crisis, or I should say... And some people listening might say, "Well, that's not a crisis." Well, if you knew my history and you knew some of the outcomes that I've seen and the doctors I've interacted with, you wouldn't be as cavalier, but-

    29. KR

      What is action mode for you? What does that mean, action mode?

    30. TF

      Yeah, I'll tell you, but I'll just say, like, in crisis situations, it's like the little paper cuts of life on a daily basis that make me lose my shit.

  13. 1:21:50 – 1:47:28

    Treatment choices and recovery: monoclonal antibodies, fluvoxamine, lingering effects, and vaccine framing

    1. TF

      So the reason I tied that in, I'm sorry for forgetting that earlier, is because there is a company called Drip Hydration, driphydration.com, and, uh, my girlfriend booked the monoclonal antibodies through Drip Hydration, and the way that works is you effectively sign up and then you will be, and I'm probably getting some of the details wrong here, but you will be contacted by a doctor or nurse practitioner who does an intake evaluation. Uh, because there are risks with, with almost anything that is an, an, an unfamiliar compound, you can experience anaphylactic response, right? You could, you could have anaphylactic shock, and you could die. So there are people who have adverse events with monoclonal antibodies. And-

    2. KR

      Mm-hmm

    3. TF

      ... as I'm also going into action mode, I'm talking to three different doctors, right? And it gives me tremendous sympathy every time I have a situation like this or some type of acute medical situation how challenging it is to navigate medicine and science, even if you are really plugged in. So, [laughs] so I was in contact, I'm not gonna name names, but I was in touch with three doctors, all very good doctors. One, one effectively said, "Do monoclonal antibodies as quickly as you can."

    4. KR

      Mm-hmm.

    5. TF

      "Because the sooner you do it, the better. My understanding is generally you want to administer within seven days of contracting." But keep in mind, I don't know when I contracted exactly. It was probably five days before I was diagnosed. The second person said, "I don't think you fit the risk profile. You are, you are, you are not immune-compromised from sort of a textbook assessment."

    6. KR

      You're double vaxxed, right?

    7. TF

      You're double vaccinated, in my case with Moderna. There are possible downsides to having the monoclonal antibodies administered. I would say, "I would advise against taking it, and you should wait and see, and if you develop more severe symptoms, then we can talk." The third doctor gave me the pros and cons, and this is a very common response that you'll get, gave me the pros and cons and said, "Really, it's up to you," right? I could justify saying go. I could justify saying don't go. That's a very challenging situation to be in, right? Because there is no tiebreaker in this case.

    8. KR

      Can I ask you how you got three doctors? Are these, like, preexisting doctors that you've worked with in the past, just-

    9. TF

      Preexisting doctors.

    10. KR

      Okay. Yeah, I know you know a lot of doctors. I just, like, was wondering, like, are you calling up people randomly or?

    11. TF

      [laughs] Right, 1-800-COVID-DOCTORS.

    12. KR

      Yeah. [laughs]

    13. TF

      Uh, I am not calling up people randomly. I, as you know, Kevin, really believe in redundancy and backup.

    14. KR

      Yeah.

    15. TF

      And I have two backup whole-house generators at my house, which meant I was one of two houses in an entire neighborhood with power during the Austin freeze last winter. You know, my, my feeling, and this is from the military, not that I was in the military, but a lot of my friends who have been in the military will say, "Two is one and one is none." Like, if you have two of something, you're gonna lose one of them, and then you'll have one. If you have one-

    16. KR

      Hmm

    17. TF

      ... just consider it none, right? Because doctors get sick. Sometimes doctors are unavailable.

    18. KR

      Mm-hmm.

    19. TF

      I'm not in a f- in a near-fatal car crash, right? So it may not even qualify as an emergency for some doctors. And for that reason, I wanna have multiple people sort of on contract or multiple people I've already done intake with who I have relationships with who I can contact via cell phone, right? That's just, if I'm gonna spend excess money anywhere for redundancy, medical is where to spend it, right?

    20. KR

      Hmm.

    21. TF

      For you and your loved ones. So that's how I had three people. And I was doing this via email and also via, via cell phone. And I spoke with all of them, and they're, they're all great, but the point is there was no consensus. Uh, I ended up, for psychological reasons, deciding that I wanted to do it. Because of my, some of my pre-existing conditions, I did not want to wonder whether or not I was going to develop some type of respiratory distress or collapse. I just, I didn't want to have that on my mind for the next five days. I knew that if I had an anaphylactic response, I, there, there, there are ways to kind of attenuate that response with, say, an EpiPen or, uh, intravenous, uh, I think it's diphenhydramine, Benadryl. So there are ways to kind of mitigate the risk. So I decided to do monoclonal antibodies, and then also decided with, through the advice of two out of three doctors in this case, to take fluvoxamine. So I started taking something called fluvoxamine, [sniffs] which is a repurposed antidepressant. This is a very interesting case. So fluvoxamine, and I'm reading here from nature.com, so I would expect it to be credible and fact-checked, but obviously do your own homework and please always speak to any doctor before stopping or starting any medications. So common antidepressant slashes risk of COVID death. So fluvoxamine, uh, not to be confused with Proz- with Prozac, which is, I think, fluoxetine. Uh, it has a very similar name, uh, but it's, it's different. So fluvoxamine is, is a different antidepressant, uh, that is cheap, widely available, and, uh, frequently used for depression and obsessive compulsive disorder. [laughs] So also, I was like, "You know, I'm kinda curious to see what this'll do to me." [laughs]

    22. KR

      Yeah. Win-win.

    23. TF

      Yeah, yeah, win-win. But I'll just read briefly so that people have an idea of why this has been repurposed. So it is also known to dampen immune responses and temper tissue damage, and cr- and researchers credit these properties with its success in a recent trial. Among study participants who took the drug as directed and did so in the early stages of the disease, COVID-19 related deaths fell by roughly 90%, and the need for intensive COVID-19 related medical care fell by roughly 65%. Uh, now, I, I should, however, also read the quote from a scientist at Emory University School of Medicine in, in Atlanta who says, uh, A, a major victory for drug repurposing, but next, quote, "Fluvoxamine treatment should be adopted for those at high risk for deterioration who are not vaccinated or cannot receive monoclonal antibodies." So one could make the argument, and one of my doctors did make the argument, that, A, you're not at a high risk of deterioration. B, you're vaccinated. C, [laughs] you're getting monoclonal antibodies. You do not need to take fluvoxamine.

    24. KR

      So you took the kitchen sink approach, basically.

    25. TF

      I didn't, though.

    26. KR

      You didn't do the horsey, but you went almost horse.

    27. TF

      I didn't do the horsey. I didn't go full horse. I chose two interventions, and then I supplemented with vitamin D and a handful of other supplements that are very low risk, right? I also supplemented with baby aspirin for, for any t- type of, like, s- thrombosis risk. And so, so, so one could make the argument that this is complete overkill, right? But for me, in my mind, as I'm tracking outcomes, and I've tracked this since February, and I'm not crazy. I don't think I'm crazy. Like, I think I'm actually pretty good-

    28. KR

      I, I think I would have done the exact same thing, by the way, of, based on everything-

    29. TF

      Yeah

    30. KR

      ... that I've read. I think I would, my protocol would have been the same.

  14. 1:47:28 – 2:01:32

    Holiday gift ideas, favorite tools, and a quick wrap-up

    1. KR

      Awesome. Good recommendations. Let's get to holiday gifts.

    2. TF

      Yeah, let's do it, and then I, I have to run in about 10 minutes, so why don't you go first?

    3. KR

      Sweet. I've got a bunch. You know, we're getting to that time of year where, especially with, uh, supply constraints, that it's, like, good to order on the early side, you know, for a lot of this stuff.

    4. TF

      [laughs]

    5. KR

      So I don't know when this is planning on dropping, but-

    6. TF

      These are all for Christmas 2022. [laughs]

    7. KR

      Yeah, exactly.

    8. TF

      [laughs]

    9. KR

      So, uh, I'll say a couple things. One of the things that I have found to be a really fun thing, speaking of, like, Ted Lasso and other fun things that you can do at night that don't involve drinking or, or just, you know, some, some fun things to do with your spouse or significant other, LEGOs for adults, man. Some of these LEGO projects, they're not for kids. They're, like, super throwback, super complicated, like, crazy LEGO sets. I just got Daria, my wife just had her birthday. She's, uh, actually her birthday's in three days, but, um, I just got her the Ecto-1 'cause she's a huge Ghostbusters fan.

    10. TF

      Oh, that's awesome. I'm looking at it right now.

    11. KR

      Yeah, it's super legit. It's not like snap five pieces together. It's like, this is, like, a, you know, 1,000 piece or whatever it is [laughs] project. Um, I got the Voltron one, which is, uh, which is awesome. They have a vintage Porsche 911, and, and you can link these up, but they're just, they're just fun. It's just something, you know, to when you're at home and bust out the LEGOs and have a good time.

    12. TF

      We'll have links to all these in the show notes, so if you're, if you're [laughs] lucky enough to listen to this on the early side, 'cause I'm sure they'll all sell out, [laughs] then, uh, just go to tim.blog/podcast and search Random Show and it'll pop right up.

    13. KR

      There you go. Um, a couple other quick things from me, 'cause I know you gotta bounce. So dude, are you a fan of Benchmade knives?

    14. TF

      I am, yes.

    15. KR

      Okay, cool. So I got this new favorite from them. It's the 537 Bailout family of, of knives. Like, it's just, like, a sick little pocket knife.

    16. TF

      It's open assist, or what is it?

    17. KR

      Uh, this has the little tiny nodule that you kinda just, like, flip open. It's not automatic. I do have an automatic that actually, like, right here, like, check this out. This, you can only get these in Oregon, 'cause they're, they, they're legal here in Oregon, but, like, you got the full, like, see, you can, it's on video if you're watching on video.

    18. TF

      Oh, yes.

    19. KR

      Yeah, but that's-

    20. TF

      [laughs]

    21. KR

      ... that's an Oregon-only edition. Um, that, that, that's Benchmade as well. But Benchmade makes great knives. For those of you [laughs] listening to the audio version, I just pulled out a switchblade [laughs] on the video. But they're legal in Oregon, so, you know, I'm, I'm a Boy Scout, so I just like, always like to have a blade on me.

    22. TF

      [laughs] Every Eagle Scout needs a switchblade.

    23. KR

      Exactly. Um-

    24. TF

      Another pocket knife that I'm a huge fan of, since you mentioned knives, is the, the Kershaw Ken Onion Leek serrated folding knife with SpeedSafe, and it has a But an open assist, that is fantastic.

    25. KR

      I like Kershaw.

    26. TF

      Really, really nice.

    27. KR

      I don't know if you know this, but BenchMades are actually made about a half hour from my house. I went to their factory.

    28. TF

      Oh, that's cool.

    29. KR

      Yeah, and you can take your knives in and they'll just sharpen them for free. It's really cool.

    30. TF

      You know, you should actually, now that I- I totally blanked on this, I think he's in... I think he's still near Portland. But Murray Carter, who was on my podcast-

Episode duration: 2:01:53

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