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What Now? With Trevor NoahWhat Now? With Trevor Noah

Cleo Abram: What Could Go Right?

Emmy-nominated video journalist Cleo Abram joins Trevor and Eugene to talk about Huge If True, her hit YouTube series that takes an optimistic approach to science and emerging technology. The three explore how asking “what could go right?” might be the most powerful tool we have for moving humanity forward, why optimism isn’t naïve but necessary, and how the physics of curling (the most divisive Olympic sport) can be used as an example of pessimism keeping us from imagining a better world. SurveyMonkey takes the fear out of asking—and the doubt out of deciding. If you haven't already.... Subscribe to the channel here: http://bit.ly/SubscribeTrevorNoah Or follow the podcast on your other favorite platforms... SiriusXM - Apple Podcasts - https://bit.ly/WhatNowOnApplePodcasts Spotify - https://bit.ly/WhatNowOnSpotify 0:00:00 - That Time We Almost Started with Aliens 0:01:00 - ADR, Accents, and the Universal African Accent Problem 0:03:00 - When Views Have Consequences (And You Have to Actually Think About It) 0:06:00 - Cleo's Three Rules for Making Content That Doesn't Suck 0:08:00 - The Jake Paul Click Cycle and How It Ruins Everything 0:10:00 - Wait, Why DO You Care? (Getting Into Cleo's Origin Story) 0:14:00 - How Death Penalty Cases Taught Someone to Explain Things Simply 0:17:00 - That 1903 Article That Said Planes Would Never Work 0:21:00 - Pessimism Plus Helplessness: A Terrible Recipe 0:24:00 - How AI Became Less Scary in Africa (Eugene's Theory) 0:28:00 - Being the Proxy for the Audience (And Not Pretending You're an Expert) 0:34:00 - Why You Can't Just Vote on Your Phone (It's Worse Than You Think) 0:40:00 - Digital Rain and Other Ways Foreign Powers Could Hack Elections 0:44:00 - When Your Knowledge Makes You Both Fun AND Annoying at Parties 0:47:00 - Eugene Explains Bashar and Why We're Making First Contact in Two Years 0:53:00 - The CIA Agent Who Said Conspiracy Theorists Are Sometimes Right 0:56:00 - What Would Actually Happen If We Found Aliens? 1:00:00 - The Curling Stone Mystery That's Baffled Physicists for 100 Years 1:08:00 - Trevor's KFC/KKK Joke That Almost Got Us Fired 1:14:00 - How Helicopters Shouldn't Exist (But Do Anyway) 1:21:00 - The Feeling of Awe (And Why Your Phone Sees the Northern Lights Better) 1:24:00 - Eugene's Grand Theft Auto Theory About the Next 100 Years 1:30:00 - Why Leaving Vox Was "So Brave" (And What That Really Means) 1:36:00 - The Three Pillars and How to Not Let Success Ruin You 1:44:00 - YouTube Is Eating Television and Nobody Can Stop It 1:50:00 - The Island Theory: Why People Get Uncomfortable When You Leave 1:57:00 - Ancient Philosophers Were Just Early YouTubers 2:00:00 - Climbing Mountains You Don't Even Want to Climb 2:04:00 - When Your Mom Thinks Stand-Up Comedy Is a Drug Front

Trevor NoahhostEugenehostCleo Abramguest
Feb 5, 20262h 10mWatch on YouTube ↗

At a glance

WHAT IT’S REALLY ABOUT

Cleo Abram on optimism, explainers, YouTube, and responsible curiosity today

  1. Cleo Abram explains her three-part “Huge If True” standard—genuinely good explanation, genuine optimism, and visual beauty—as a safeguard against clickbait incentives and cynicism.
  2. The conversation contrasts knee-jerk pessimism with curiosity-driven storytelling, arguing that pessimism plus helplessness creates nihilism and shuts down meaningful participation in shaping the future.
  3. Cleo describes her origin story—from a childhood around lawyers and death-penalty cases emphasizing simple, clear explanation—to Vox/Netflix work and ultimately leaving to build an independent YouTube show.
  4. They explore how to engage “conspiracy-adjacent” interests (aliens, CERN fears) by translating the underlying curiosity into rigorous science, sometimes using clearly-labeled sci‑fi framing to explore realistic scenarios.
  5. The episode broadens into a media analysis: YouTube’s platform model is “eating television,” more creators are going independent, and audience fatigue with negative news creates demand for constructive, accountable, mission-led content.

IDEAS WORTH REMEMBERING

5 ideas

Set explicit quality constraints to resist “the click cycle.”

Cleo’s three pillars (good explainer, optimistic arc, visual excellence) function as a decision filter that reduces temptation to chase short-term spikes that degrade trust or mission—similar to how comedic “rules” guide stand-up choices.

Assume a technology can work to unlock the real conversation.

Her airplane example argues that dismissive pessimism ends discourse early; by temporarily granting feasibility, you can discuss second-order impacts, risks, and governance in a richer, more actionable way.

Pessimism without agency produces disengagement.

The show’s aim is to counter “pessimism + helplessness” by showing who is working on problems and how solutions might emerge, so viewers feel invited into early-stage conversations rather than locked out until it’s too late.

Be the audience’s proxy, not the omniscient expert.

Cleo frames her on-camera role as translation and recontextualization—asking the questions viewers would ask—so experts stay central while the audience remains oriented and emotionally engaged.

Mobile voting isn’t just ‘banking but for ballots.’

Banks tolerate some fraud and reimburse losses to reduce user friction, but elections can’t accept comparable risk—especially in close races—and they face uniquely intense nation-state adversaries with incentives beyond money.

WORDS WORTH SAVING

5 quotes

I really saw as a young kid how if you can explain something complicated in a way that 12 normal people can understand, you can actually save someone's life, like in a real way.

Cleo Abram

Pessimism coupled with helplessness: a terrible recipe.

Trevor Noah

I believe that having more people understand complicated issues means that more people will participate in making sure that they go right.

Cleo Abram

It's not me. It's the show.

Cleo Abram

If you're living on an island, someone gets on a boat and says, "I'm sailing somewhere else that we cannot see," you'll be shocked at how it makes the people on that island angry and uncomfortable.

Trevor Noah

Opening banter: accents, ADR, “universal African accent” in moviesViews and consequences: platform size and real-world impactCleo’s three rules/pillars for content qualityThe Jake Paul “click cycle” and algorithmic incentivesOrigin story: law, death-penalty cases, and simplifying complexity1903 NYT anti-airplane article as a parable about pessimismOptimism vs helplessness; building agency through understandingBeing a proxy for the audience (not pretending expertise)Mobile/online voting: encryption limits, fraud tolerance, nation-state threatsDigital “rain”/friction tactics to subtly suppress votesConspiracy theories, CIA comment, and reframing interest into scienceAliens as curiosity; mixing sci‑fi with explainers responsiblyCurling physics mystery; awe as a creative fuelLeaving Vox; independence, hedonic adaptation, mission as insulationYouTube’s scale, accountability challenges, and new media power shift“Island theory” of why people resent leaving; autonomy and thriving

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