Jonny Wilkinson: Winning The World Cup Led To My Darkest Days | E131

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I had to achieve, I had to be perfect. I guess, ultimately take on the suffering. The player of the tournament, Jonny Wilkinson! A genuine sporting legend. How much pressure has this man been under this week? For me, it was do or die on the field, so therefore, where other people kind of called it quits and threw in the towel, I didn't have the choice. Here it is for Jonny! This'll go down in history.

Was your mental health better or worse after that moment?

When I was on the field in the zone, I was operating at a level I couldn't even understand. Waking up the next morning, you know, leaves you in the cold light of day. I thought there was gonna be joy here. I was convinced. There isn't. I spent my life being very fit but not really that healthy. Health is about what fitness can come out of, and unless you look after health, it's dangerous. People say, "I wish I made more of my life. Wish I'd enjoyed every moment." But that starts with health. Working on someone else really doesn't work for anyone, but working on yourself tends to work for everyone.

So without further ado, I'm Steven Bartlett, and this is The Diary of a CEO. I hope nobody's listening, but if you are, then please keep this to yourself. (instrumental music) Jonny, um, you went on to become one of the real greats in rugby, and I remember watching you in my living room as a very, very young kid on the screen-

(laughs)

... in awe, not just in that 2003 moment, but, but long before then. And when I think about, and when I sit here with guests that are athletes or successful entrepreneurs, whatever they might be, they sometimes, but not usually, can give me a sort of, uh, fairly accurate description of what happened in the earlier phases of life that would, would mold them to become that champion or that CEO that they later were. You're someone that is incredibly self-aware, so I was very much looking forward to asking you the same question, which is, when you reflect on the early s- stages of your life, what were the, like, defining, um, molding experiences, for better or for worse, that you would point at and say, "That's probably why, or at least that led to, in part, who I became later in life"?

Um, I think the best way of answering that would be to say that in my younger days, and very young, without any, any kind of triggering events, certainly not that I can, um, remember or ev- ever, ever sort of come into contact with, I had enormous passion and some kind of adeptness for ball skills. So, if I had a ball in my hand, things just made sense. I could work out... I could, I could, in my sort of head I could have a, a, some, some sort of target, some sort of goal, something to do with that ball, and I could, I could work it out. That was part of the intelligence I had was just, I could bring those things about relatively effortlessly, and I had a real passion for exploring that it still is the case with me. I still find myself, uh, playing basketball, and, and often so much of this I'll do on my own because it's my relationship with that inner capacity I have that interests me. Not to show what I can do, but it's that sense of, I guess, being at home, and that's where a huge amount of the revelations that I have in life come from, from that kind of relationship. However, there was also another relationship which, again, without triggering event, um, I grew up with an immense sense of doom and fear about everything. So I had this incredible sort of passion and inclination towards expressing myself with, with balls and skills, and, and, and in competition as well. But the competition side was a need that wasn't a desire. The, the, the achievement, um, all that stuff was obsessive, um, but from a negative perspective. Because I had this sense of doom surrounding everything, that was my disconnect, if you like. I saw other people handling situations that seemed so simple to them, but for me, insurmountable. And yet when they looked at me with regard to, "Ah," you know, with a ball in my hand, what they thought was impossible, for me just was relatively straightforward. And I think those two sides of my path meant that I had this constant, uh, drive to just find myself in a garden with a ball in my hand. That's ev- all, all hours of the day and night most of the time. It's all I talk about, all I talked about, all I spoke about, all I did. And yet on the other hand, I had this ever-present fear that I built this, if you like, defense mechanism, coping strategy, but ultimately identity around how to somehow survive that fear. And that, that, for me, that mechanism I put in place was I had to achieve, I had to be perfect, and I had to, I guess, ultimately take on the suffering and, and live that kind of martyr-savior/warrior archetype. And as such, I found myself really, really uncomfortable with when things were seemingly going well. It just, you know, I found that horrendously difficult to handle. As a result, I would revert to that defense mechanism of creating problems if there weren't. So I, I was constantly looking in a state of kind of survival for w-... where the next problem was, 'cause I was convinced with this ever-present sense of fear that there was a threat, and it was there. And so, yeah, those two paths essentially... weaved in and out with each other throughout my entire life. But there was no doubt that my ability on the field, at times, to be in that zone, was where I felt my genius. But at the same time, the other strength I had was that, for me, it was do or die on the field. So therefore, where other people kind of called it quits and threw in the towel, I didn't have the choice. You know, the fear didn't just drop off and let me just sit down for a bit, so I could go and go and go and go.