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BigDeal by Codie Sanchez

Manipulation Expert: Success Isn’t Luck, It’s Rigged | Robert Greene

My new book Own Or Be Owned is out now! I wrote Own or Be Owned to answer one question: How do you make more money, less miserably?

Robert GreeneguestGreat Minds Codie Sanchezhost

Apr 16, 20251h 18mWatch on YouTube

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CHAPTERS

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Chapter summaries

Writing by Hand and the Margin Notes of 48 Laws
Codie asks whether Greene thinks best when writing, speaking or reading. He explains why he handwrites first drafts and how the Torah's margin commentaries inspired the marginal fables and quotes in The 48 Laws of Power.
- •Greene reads actively, annotating books and arguing with them in the margins
- •He thinks best through writing and has always handwritten first drafts
- •Handwriting gives a more direct connection between hand and brain than typing
- •The margin quotes and fables came from the commentaries around the Torah text he studied for his bar mitzvah
- •The margins create several voices in conversation with the main text
The Kissinger Story and Indirect Communication
Codie raises the story of Kissinger repeatedly asking "Is this the best you can do?" Greene explains that indirect signals make people think, while direct criticism or instructions provoke rebellion or mimicry.
- •Kissinger returned a report with the same question until Winston Lord finally said it was his best
- •Telling people exactly what to do can make them rebellious or merely imitative
- •A hint prompts the other person to improve the work themselves
- •Greene says people are too verbal and that clever, indirect direction is more powerful
Violating Law One: Ego and Office Politics
Codie describes being pushed out of two private equity firms after outshining her bosses. Greene shares how he was fired from a TV research job and explains why he wrote the book: nobody tells newcomers that ego and politics dominate the work world.
- •Codie broke the first law, never outshine the master, and was sidelined through subtle workarounds
- •Greene was fired despite producing far more stories than his colleagues, because his boss felt disrespected
- •He says making others look good and feeding their egos is about 90% of the game early on
- •Parents, professors and bosses don't teach this, and Greene wants people to be realistic without becoming cynical
Who Understands Power Intuitively and Avoiding Infectious People
Greene estimates about 5% of people grasp these laws intuitively, and says some of them can be amoral. He then explains Law 10, avoid the unlucky and unfortunate, as a warning about dramatic people who drag you into their turmoil, which Codie backs with a study on proximity to high and low performers.
- •Greene guesses, unscientifically, that about 5% of people understand the laws intuitively
- •Law 10 is often misread; it is about people who create drama and infect you with their energy
- •Codie cites a study where sitting near a high performer made you 15% more likely to outperform and near a low performer 30% more likely to underperform
History as Data and the Role of Dark Personalities
Asked how history and data fit together, Greene says his hundreds of books of research on powerful people served as his data, alongside the pain of his many bad jobs. Codie then asks about narcissists and sociopaths, and Greene discusses Sam Vaknin and why the book is about awareness rather than becoming ruthless.
- •Greene read about kings, courtesans and financiers to spot trends that revealed human nature
- •He had 50 to 60 jobs and many bad bosses, which supplied personal material for the book
- •Not everyone good at power has dark qualities
- •Narcissists generally don't see themselves as manipulative, with Vaknin a rare exception
- •The aim is awareness that business can be merciless, not imitation
The Golden Bridge and Playing the Soft Game
Codie shares how she applied Sun Tzu's golden bridge in a deal where the seller's numbers were wrong, letting them walk away without a lawsuit. Greene says the book isn't about aggression, since crushing everyone creates enemies, and the soft game of seduction is a large part of power.
- •Codie let a seller retreat gracefully instead of suing over incorrect numbers
- •Greene says constant crushing leaves you without allies and invites backlash in the social media era
- •Power involves pleasing people and making them feel they do what they want while doing what you want
- •The book is about seeming generous while being clever
Observation and Reading Non-Verbal Signs
Asked for the most underrated truth for young people, Greene says the key skill is observing others instead of being wrapped up in yourself. He explains that everything people do is a sign and that body language and gut feelings reveal more than words.
- •Newcomers worry about themselves instead of observing the people and power games around them
- •Everything people do, such as lateness or an email's tone, is a sign
- •Body language and voice are hard to fake, and gut feelings should be trusted
- •Reading signs requires quieting your internal chatter
- •Greene's Laws of Human Nature has a long chapter on non-verbal communication
Seduction, Illusion and Knowing Who You're Dealing With
Codie asks about Greene's claim that seduction is deception but people want to be led astray. He ties it to stories and fantasy, and the discussion moves to the line about drawing your sword against a swordsman and knowing each person's nature.
- •People want to be led through stories and illusions because reality is harsh
- •Supplying fantasy and pleasure gives you power
- •The line about not reciting poetry to a non-poet is someone else's, and Greene uses it to stress knowing who you deal with
- •Trusting a vulture or tricky person can get you hurt
The Myth of Authenticity
Greene says the valuing of authenticity is a recurring historical pattern, swinging between theatrical masks and romantic sincerity. He argues nobody is fully authentic since being social means playing a role, and Codie adds a political example of scripted fakeness.
- •In the 18th century the theater was the social metaphor, followed by a Romantic reaction toward authenticity
- •Greene calls total authenticity a myth; people who seem authentic are creating that effect
- •Perhaps 40 to 50% of an authentic-seeming person is genuinely coming out
- •Codie notes that one scripted answer from a politician undermined her impression of him
Beating Villains: Strategy Over Tactical Hell
Discussing a quote from Greene's Twitter, he says ethical people must learn the game of those who bend rules, and that villains are often emotional and not very strategic. He contrasts strategic with reactive thinking, citing a government shutdown example and the need to use leverage.
- •Greene says the quote isn't his own writing, but interprets it as learning to play hardball better than manipulators
- •Villains often act on emotion and ego rather than strategy
- •Tactical hell means constantly reacting to others instead of thinking several steps ahead
- •Greene argues Chuck Schumer folding was a tactical rather than strategic move
- •Not using leverage signals weakness and invites harder negotiation next time
Fear vs. Love and the Occasional Use of the Whip
Codie raises Machiavelli's claim that it's better to be feared than loved. Greene explains why fear is more stable but can go too far, then endorses a touch of fear using Netflix's public firings and Vince Lombardi as examples.
- •Love is ephemeral while fear is stable, per Machiavelli
- •If everyone fears you, they will tell you only what you want to hear and hold back creativity
- •Greene advises clients to keep a touch of fear alongside being liked
- •Codie describes Netflix publicly firing a person who abused its no-rules policy
- •Lombardi treated everyone equally but harshly punished ego violations, and Greene says an occasional whip beats constant or no whip
The Sublime, Willpower and Writing After the Stroke
Greene describes his new book on the sublime, shaped by his stroke and near-death experience, including a chapter on untapped willpower. He explains how he now forces himself into inspiration, since he can no longer hike or swim, and calls it amor fati.
- •The book aims to make readers see the wonder of being alive, consciousness and the cosmos
- •The current chapter covers untapped energy and willpower, illustrated by the Andes plane crash survivors
- •Before his stroke he got ideas hiking and swimming, which he can no longer do
- •He now prepares by listening to music and feeling the material before writing
- •He says the stroke made the book better, since most readers can't visit exotic places either
Bukowski, Urgency and Never Complaining
The conversation moves from Bukowski's advice to write only if it bursts out of you to Greene's urgency to finish his book. He then explains his stance of never whining or complaining and having no regrets, since everything happens for a purpose.
- •Codie recalls Bukowski's poem telling people not to write unless it comes bursting out
- •Greene, a self-described hypochondriac, fears dying before finishing; he is on chapter 11 of 12
- •He meditates and treats irritating noise as training not to get upset
- •He has no regrets and says there is no wasted time in life
- •He says humans overthink and ruin things that are neither good nor bad, just events
Anti-Seductive Traits and Creating Mystery
Greene describes anti-seductive people who talk too much, brag, moralize, are vulgar or lack self-awareness. He argues mystery and absence matter, using celebrities like Beyoncé and Michael Jackson, and says surprising a partner keeps a relationship from fizzling.
- •Anti-seductive traits include talking too much, bragging, moralizing and vulgarity
- •Seductive people are self-aware about body language, clothes and speech
- •Excessive familiarity through constant social media makes people take you for granted
- •Beyoncé and Michael Jackson used disappearance to build intrigue
- •In relationships, surprising your partner keeps energy alive
Next Book, Where to Find Greene and Advice to Young Robert
Greene says his next book, The Law of the Sublime, is due in fall 2026, and shares his website and social channels. He praises podcasting over mainstream media, then reads a message to his younger self telling him to stop worrying and enjoy his youth.
- •The Law of the Sublime is currently expected in fall 2026
- •His website is powerseductionandwar.com, which links to his social accounts
- •He prefers podcasts to mainstream media interviews because he can be himself
- •His message to young Robert: it will turn out fine, so stop worrying and enjoy youth
- •He says being older has advantages but he had more fun when younger

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