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How to Shape Your Identity & Goals | Dr. Maya Shankar

In this episode my guest is Maya Shankar Ph.D., a cognitive scientist, former senior advisor to the White House and Chair of the White House Social and Behavioral Sciences Team. She is the creator and host of the podcast A Slight Change of Plans. We discuss how our identities develop and change, how our beliefs and internal narratives shape our perception of self and how to use structured introspection about our values to determine our goals. We discuss how to cope and grow through uncertain situations, especially those that force us to reexamine our roles and identity. Dr. Shankar shares her experience of redefining her identity after an early career-ending setback. She also explains numerous science-based strategies to effectively define goals, structure our goal pursuits and maintain consistent motivation. This episode provides a science-supported toolkit and roadmap to assess your identity and goals and positively transform in the face of change. Thank you to our sponsors AG1: https://drinkag1.com/huberman Maui Nui Venison: https://mauinuivenison.com/huberman Eight Sleep: https://eightsleep.com/huberman InsideTracker: https://insidetracker.com/huberman Supplements from Momentous https://www.livemomentous.com/huberman Huberman Lab Social & Website Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/hubermanlab Threads: https://www.threads.net/@hubermanlab Twitter: https://twitter.com/hubermanlab Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/hubermanlab TikTok: https://www.tiktok.com/@hubermanlab LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/andrew-huberman Website: https://hubermanlab.com Newsletter: https://hubermanlab.com/neural-network Dr. Maya Shankar Website: https://mayashankar.com A Slight Change of Plans: https://apple.co/slightchangeofplans TED Talk: https://youtu.be/Tt0arZN6EBM YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@drmayashankar Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/drmayashankar Twitter: https://twitter.com/slightchangepod Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/drmayashankar Publications: https://mayashankar.com/publications Articles On the dimensionality of odor space: https://bit.ly/475304P Computations of uncertainty mediate acute stress responses in humans: https://go.nature.com/43y8IJG The End of History Illusion: https://bit.ly/3KcPkeh Achievement Goals and the Hierarchical Model of Achievement Motivation: https://bit.ly/3rFmrkz They Saw a Game: A Case Study: https://bit.ly/44YMphc The Fresh Start Effect: Temporal Landmarks Motivate Aspirational Behavior: https://bit.ly/46Tszps Holding the Hunger Games Hostage at the Gym: An Evaluation of Temptation Bundling: https://bit.ly/44Zax3d Books Chatter: The Voice in Our Head, Why It Matters, and How to Harness It: https://amzn.to/3pZl4g6 Awe: The New Science of Everyday Wonder and How It Can Transform Your Life: https://amzn.to/3QaS0Nw Get It Done: Surprising Lessons from the Science of Motivation: https://amzn.to/3pRxtTu The War for Kindness: Building Empathy in a Fractured World: https://amzn.to/3Kailra Thinking, Fast and Slow: https://amzn.to/3q3u1VN Other Resources Identity Paralysis: https://bit.ly/3rFjEYE Reginald Dwayne Betts: https://nyti.ms/3O52uLx Rick Rubin: How to Access Your Creativity (Huberman Lab episode): https://bit.ly/44Bjb8B Dr. Arie Kruglanski & Cognitive Closure: https://bit.ly/3KanqQ4 Dr. Ethan Kross & Venting: https://bit.ly/3Qbrt2E Slight Change of Plans - Daryl Davis episode: https://bit.ly/3Y6cCbA Let’s See a Game: https://bit.ly/44Oca3U Peak-end Rule: https://bit.ly/3rIyo9i Timestamps 00:00:00 Dr. Maya Shankar 00:02:37 Sponsors: Maui Nui Venison & Eight Sleep 00:05:15 Identity Foreclosure, Identity Paralysis, Throughlines 00:12:10 Identity & Adolescence; “Essence” & Shame 00:16:58 Delight & Awe 00:23:00 Delight & Possibilities for Self 00:29:28 Playing Violin, Childhood 00:34:54 Sponsor: AG1 00:35:58 Intrinsic Motivation; Juilliard & Courage 00:45:43 Competitive Environments; Curiosity & Growth 00:53:46 Re-Creating of Self 01:00:51 Pop-Science, Science Accessibility 01:05:25 Sponsor: InsideTracker 01:06:32 Passions & Curiosity 01:13:20 Change, Cognitive Closure, End-of-History Illusion 01:22:29 Self-Awareness & Critical Feedback 01:30:48 Tools: Flexible Mindset; Reframing & Venting; Gratitude 01:40:13 Tool: Framing Goals 01:47:13 Tool: Agency in Goal Pursuit 01:52:25 Tool: Like-Minded People & Goal Pursuit; Challenging Beliefs 02:01:27 Cultivating Open-Mindedness & Empathy 02:08:15 Building Self Narratives: Empathy, Burnout 02:13:56 Tools: Goal Setting 02:19:54 Tool: “Middle Problem”, Maintaining Motivation 02:24:55 Tool: Aversion & Memory, Peak-End Rule 02:31:41 Zero-Cost Support, YouTube Feedback, Spotify & Apple Reviews, Sponsors, Momentous, Neural Network Newsletter, Social Media Title Card Photo Credit: Mike Blabac - https://www.blabacphoto.com Disclaimer: https://hubermanlab.com/disclaimer

Andrew HubermanhostMaya Shankarguest
Jul 23, 20232h 33mWatch on YouTube ↗

At a glance

WHAT IT’S REALLY ABOUT

Rewriting Who You Are: Science-Backed Tools For Identity And Change

  1. Andrew Huberman and cognitive scientist Dr. Maya Shankar explore how identities form, how they break, and how to rebuild them using science-based tools. Drawing on Maya’s own story of losing a concert violin career at 15 and pivoting into cognitive science and public policy, they unpack concepts like identity foreclosure, identity paralysis, essentialism, and growth mindset. They discuss how awe, curiosity, and human connection can serve as reliable ‘through lines’ across careers and life changes, and how to redefine identity around the “why” rather than the “what” of what we do. The conversation then shifts into highly practical frameworks for goal-setting, motivation, empathy, behavior change, and dealing with uncertainty, offering listeners a toolkit for reshaping both their self-narrative and their daily habits.

IDEAS WORTH REMEMBERING

5 ideas

Anchor your identity to the ‘why’, not the ‘what’.

Maya distinguishes between defining yourself by what you do (e.g., ‘I am a violinist’) versus why you do it (e.g., ‘I’m driven by deep human connection’). When her violin career ended abruptly at 15, the ‘what’ disappeared and she experienced identity paralysis—a sense of being stuck and unable to imagine a future. By reverse-engineering what she truly loved about violin (emotional connection, evoking feelings in others), she found that same ‘through line’ in cognitive science, public policy, and podcasting. Action: List the roles you’ve held and ask, for each, “What did I actually love about this?” Extract the underlying motives (e.g., problem-solving, teaching, creativity, connection) and use those as your identity anchors.

Beware identity foreclosure and essentialism; keep identity malleable.

Identity foreclosure occurs when families, cultures, or peer groups impose narrow scripts (‘you’re the math kid’, ‘you’ll be a doctor’), which can limit what you believe you’re capable of. Essentialism—the belief that people have fixed, immutable ‘essences’—feeds shame (‘I am bad’ vs. ‘I did something bad’) and makes change feel impossible. Maya recommends treating yourself as a dynamic bundle of behaviors and thoughts rather than a fixed essence, which supports a growth mindset and reduces self-berating narratives. Action: Notice any ‘I am just the kind of person who…’ stories and rewrite them as ‘So far I have tended to…’ to leave room for change.

Curiosity and awe are powerful engines for life pivots and resilience.

Both Maya and Andrew describe awe-filled moments (Maya with Beethoven’s violin concerto, Andrew with New York City and neuroscience) that later became career-defining. The key shift wasn’t just experiencing awe, but seeing ‘a place for myself’ in the domain—moving from passive admiration to an active verb state (‘I can do something here’). Research on awe (Dacher Keltner) shows it involves perceived vastness and a need for accommodation—updating one’s mental model of the world—which increases openness. Action: When something feels awe-inspiring, explicitly ask, “Is there a role I could play in this world?” and experiment with small, active steps (e.g., a class, a project, a conversation) rather than just consuming.

Use science-based goal framing: approach, agency, slack, and fresh starts.

Maya outlines several evidence-backed goal techniques: (1) Frame goals in approach terms (‘eat more vegetables’) rather than avoidance (‘avoid junk food’) to make progress easier to track and more motivating. (2) Preserve agency by setting or co-setting your own targets; humans are more motivated when they feel in the driver’s seat. (3) Build an ‘emergency reserve’ or slack (e.g., 3 skip days per month) so minor failures don’t collapse the whole goal. (4) Leverage ‘fresh start’ moments (new year, new job, first day of week) to launch new habits when environments and identities are already shifting. Action: Rewrite one current goal into an approach frame, choose your own specific target, add 2–3 pre-approved ‘fail days’, and tie the start to a fresh-start date.

Solve the ‘middle problem’ by shortening goal horizons and bundling temptations.

Motivation is typically high at the start and end of a goal but dips in the middle. If your goal horizon is a year, that ‘middle’ can last months. Shorter horizons (weekly or monthly goals) compress the low-motivation middle. Temptation bundling—pairing an unpleasant but important task (laundry, high-intensity workouts) with a strictly reserved pleasure (favorite podcast, music, show)—creates immediate reward and makes return visits more likely. Crucially, you must only allow yourself the reward when doing the task. Action: Take one dreaded but important behavior and assign a highly enjoyable, exclusive companion activity to it; do not indulge that activity at any other time.

WORDS WORTH SAVING

5 quotes

When you define yourself by the what, then as soon as the what goes away you’re like, ‘Oh my gosh, who the hell am I?’

Maya Shankar

I have learned in my adult life to anchor my identity to why I do the things I do rather than what I do, and I found this to be a much more durable, reliable relationship.

Maya Shankar

Our desire as humans to have identities is not going anywhere, and we shouldn’t want it to. Identities bring us so much meaning and purpose. But we can be more particular about what we anchor our identities to.

Maya Shankar

We tend to think we have a very veridical understanding of who we are, but that understanding is based on the random set of data points we’ve happened to collect over our lifetime.

Maya Shankar

The greatest gift cognitive science has given me is empathy. The more you learn about how minds work, the more you can bridge these empathy gaps.

Maya Shankar

Formation, loss, and reconstruction of identityEssentialism, growth mindset, and the end-of-history illusionAwe, delight, curiosity, and seeing a ‘place for yourself’Behavior change, motivation, and evidence-based goal settingGroup identity, bias, and changing minds across dividesEmpathy types (emotional, cognitive, compassionate) and burnoutPractical tools for navigating major life changes and uncertainty

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