Joe Rogan Experience #2295 - Scott Payne

Payne emphasizes that effective undercover work is about being a believable version of yourself—using your real background, mannerisms, and interests—rather than acting as a totally fabricated character, which is hard to sustain over years.

He describes FBI UC training as brutally sleep-deprived to expose who cracks under stress, and explains the Safeguard program’s mandatory psychological assessments, yet still admits he burned out after years of nonstop operations and had to be pulled off cases.

Payne formed deep bonds with violent bikers like “Scot Town” and “Clothesline,” to the point where they’d take bullets for each other; he felt genuine sadness and guilt during their arrests, highlighting the moral tension of “building relationships you’re going to betray.”

Groups like The Base recruit via encrypted apps, blend Nazi, pagan, and accelerationist beliefs, and plan small-cell “boogaloo” style attacks on infrastructure or perceived enemies, making them harder to detect through traditional protest or organization monitoring.

Payne shows how idle extremist rhetoric can turn into step-by-step planning—discussing weapons, disguises, depend diapers for potential bowel loss, and DNA control—indicating a shift from protected speech into prosecutable criminal conspiracy.