Skip to content
The Joe Rogan ExperienceThe Joe Rogan Experience

Joe Rogan Experience #2295 - Scott Payne

Scott Payne is a retired FBI Special Agent who spent 28 years in law enforcement investigating cases against drug trafficking organizations, human traffickers, outlaw motorcycle clubs, gangs, public corruption, and domestic terrorists. He is the co-author of the book "Code Name: Pale Horse: How I Went Undercover to Expose America’s Nazis" and the subject of the podcast "White Hot Hate: Agent Pale Horse," both created in collaboration with journalist Michelle Shephard. https://www.simonandschuster.com/books/Code-Name-Pale-Horse/Scott-Payne/9781668032909 https://link.mgln.ai/63oNQg Join Visible by visiting https://visible.com/rogan and experience all-digital wireless with nothing to hide, with plans starting at $25/mo. Visit https://LifeLock.com/JOEROGAN to save up to 40% off.

Joe RoganhostScott Payneguest
Mar 27, 20252h 46mWatch on YouTube ↗

CHAPTERS

  1. 0:12 – 4:49

    From South Carolina cop to 25-year FBI undercover career

    Joe sets the stage for Scott Payne’s background: 25 years undercover in extremist groups and biker gangs. Scott explains his upbringing, personality, and how early experiences in psychology, bouncing, and policing shaped his path toward undercover work.

  2. 4:49 – 10:30

    Early undercover basics: first narcotics buy and learning the craft

    Scott recounts his first undercover assignment as a local narcotics investigator—buying crack on a street corner—and what it felt like to be out of his element. The conversation turns to how drug cases are built, from repeated buys to climbing the chain to distributors.

  3. 10:30 – 15:45

    Why the FBI enables deeper undercover work than local policing

    Scott explains the limits of local undercover work—being recognized in court, limited ability to rotate identities—and why federal certification expands possibilities worldwide. He describes joining the FBI, early assignments, and how he got pulled into undercover ‘cameos’ on major drug cases.

  4. 15:45 – 19:38

    FBI undercover certification school: stress testing to prevent failures in the field

    Scott details the intensity of the FBI undercover certification school—sleep deprivation, relentless scenarios, and psychological pressure. The goal is to identify who will crack before an operation puts them in a lethal situation.

  5. 19:38 – 30:31

    Landing a ‘big leagues’ case: infiltrating the Outlaws motorcycle club

    Scott describes how major long-term undercovers are staffed and how he became the primary on the Outlaws case. He explains the chess-game approach—matching personalities and using realistic cover details—then walks through his initial cold bump at a strip club and early relationship building.

  6. 30:31 – 40:35

    Undercover tradeoffs: drinking, potential drug exposure, and courtroom risk

    Joe presses on practical limits—whether undercovers can drink or do drugs. Scott explains controlled drinking, why training tests behavior under fatigue, and why drug use is both dangerous and legally/credibility risky in front of a jury.

  7. 40:35 – 56:19

    Escalation inside the Outlaws: stolen vehicles, cartel credibility, and trust-building

    Scott explains how the Outlaws case moved from initial bonding to operational criminal evidence: insurance fraud, stolen vehicles, and later drug pipelines. He outlines how he avoided entrapment while still creating opportunities for targets to reveal crimes and intent.

  8. 56:19 – 1:14:35

    Near-catastrophe: basement strip-search for wires and an adrenaline dump

    Scott recounts one of his most dangerous moments: being taken into a fortified clubhouse basement, weapons drawn, ordered to strip, and searched while heavily wired. He describes the physiological ‘adrenaline dump,’ how close he came to being discovered, and how the team prepared to breach a wall if needed.

  9. 1:14:35 – 1:27:16

    The human cost: family strain, Safeguard psychological assessments, and burnout crash

    Scott describes how nonstop operations and a workaholic mindset wrecked his recovery, family presence, and mental health. He explains the FBI ‘Safeguard’ program (created after early undercover history) and his eventual diagnosis as overassigned after a severe crash and anxiety attack.

  10. 1:27:16 – 1:35:05

    Aftermath and moral whiplash: the last call with Scot Town and living with betrayal

    Scott tells how the case concluded and the emotional weight of final communications with targets who genuinely cared about him. He discusses the reality of discovery in court, the fear of encountering former targets, and how he approaches those encounters without living in fear.

  11. 1:35:05 – 1:42:53

    Most satisfying operation: pedophile murder-for-hire sting in county jail

    Switching from conflicted bonds to clear moral lines, Scott recounts a quick undercover where a child molester tried to hire someone to kill the victim (and later the family). The sting produced clean audio evidence and led to guilty pleas and significant prison time.

  12. 1:42:53 – 1:49:03

    Border-case realities: cartel violence, kidnappings, and corruption as a system

    Scott shifts to case-agent work on the border: kidnappings, extortions, and extreme cartel brutality. He describes how ransom negotiations unfold, the role of liaison channels, and the grim incentives created by corruption and quota systems.

  13. 1:49:03 – 2:05:00

    Shift to domestic terrorism: infiltrating 'The Base' and accelerationist ideology

    Scott explains how he moved onto the Joint Terrorism Task Force and into neo-Nazi/accelerationist investigations—especially after public events raised the threat profile. He details the recruitment pipeline, vetting, and the core goal: accelerating societal collapse toward an ethnostate.

  14. 2:05:00 – 2:26:31

    Hate camp in Georgia: paramilitary training, pagan blots, goat sacrifice, and LSD

    Scott describes field meetings with The Base, including firearms/tactics sessions and an escalating series of pagan rituals. The story culminates in the theft and sacrifice of a ram, drinking blood, and a chaotic LSD-fueled sequence that derailed training and intensified Scott’s sense of moral contamination.

  15. 2:26:31 – 2:46:50

    From ideology to plots: murder planning, boogaloo fantasies, and the takedown

    Scott outlines how investigators distinguished ‘drunk talk’ from actionable plots—casing targets and planning murders with extensive anti-forensics measures. He then describes the operational endgame: coordinating SWAT, executing a ruse extraction, and arrests across multiple jurisdictions as the chat group realizes a federal undercover penetrated them.

Get more out of YouTube videos.

High quality summaries for YouTube videos. Accurate transcripts to search & find moments. Powered by ChatGPT & Claude AI.