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Peter Attia MDPeter Attia MD

#01 – Tim Ferriss: depression, psychedelics, and emotional resilience

Original release date: 7/2/2018 In this episode, Tim talks both experientially and from his own deep dive into the literature of psychedelics and mental health. Tim is shifting his focus from investing in startups to funding experiments that he hopes will establish more reliable knowledge and therapeutic options for those suffering from anxiety, depression, and addiction. If this topic even remotely interests you, I can’t recommend Tim’s podcast with Michael Pollan, author of How to Change Your Mind, enough. (You should definitely read Pollan’s book as well.) Even if you’ve never had any exposure to psychedelics or their potential applications, I think you’ll find this subject matter really interesting, and I was very grateful for Tim to be so open and honest about his experiences. Tim also shared his short list of acquired wisdom he returns to most reliably, which might be worth the price of admission alone. We discuss: - Tim’s history of depression and his TED Talk on his close call with suicide; - The type of thinking that triggers Tim’s downward spirals; - Tim’s transformative experience with ayahuasca; - How Tim’s experience and research has led him to focus on furthering the science of psychedelics and mental health; - What some of the meditation modalities, and meditation apps, are out there, - Why can meditation be so hard to do, but also worthwhile to stick with; - Why Tim made a big commitment (more than $1 million) to funding scientific research, and to psilocybin and MDMA research, in particular; - From all the habits and tools that Tim has learned, the five things that he returns to most reliably; and - More. Show notes page: https://peterattiamd.com/timferriss/ About: The Peter Attia Drive is a weekly, ultra-deep-dive podcast focusing on maximizing health, longevity, critical thinking…and a few other things. With over 10 million episodes downloaded, it features topics including fasting, ketosis, Alzheimer’s disease, cancer, mental health, and much more. Peter is the founder of Attia Medical, PC, a medical practice with offices in San Diego and New York City, focusing on the applied science of longevity. The practice applies nutritional biochemistry, exercise physiology, sleep physiology, techniques to increase distress tolerance, lipidology, pharmacology, and four-system endocrinology to increase lifespan (delaying the onset of chronic disease), while simultaneously improving healthspan (quality of life). Learn more: https://peterattiamd.com/ Subscribe to receive exclusive subscriber-only content: https://peterattiamd.com/subscribe/ Sign up to receive Peter's email newsletter: https://peterattiamd.com/newsletter/ Connect with Peter on: Facebook: http://bit.ly/PeterAttiaMDFB Twitter: http://bit.ly/PeterAttiaMDTW Instagram: http://bit.ly/PeterAttiaMDIG Subscribe to The Drive: Apple Podcast: http://bit.ly/TheDriveApplePodcasts Overcast: http://bit.ly/TheDriveOvercast Spotify: http://bit.ly/TheDriveSpotify Google Play: http://bit.ly/TheDriveGooglePlay

Peter AttiahostTim Ferrissguest
Dec 16, 20192h 36mWatch on YouTube ↗

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At a glance

WHAT IT’S REALLY ABOUT

Tim Ferriss on Depression, Psychedelics, Meditation, and Rewriting Your Inner Story

  1. Tim Ferriss describes lifelong depression, a belief that he wasn't built for happiness, and a close brush with suicide in college that was interrupted by a misdirected library postcard and a call from his mother.
  2. Both men argue that harsh self-talk and driven, pain-absorbing coping don't scale, and that how you treat yourself is how you treat the people you love.
  3. Ferriss recounts psilocybin and ayahuasca experiences that he says shifted his relationships and mental state, while stressing that these compounds carry real risks, aren't for everyone, and need preparation, supervision, and integration.
  4. The two discuss research on MDMA for PTSD, psilocybin for end-of-life depression and other conditions, and ibogaine for opiate addiction, along with Ferriss's commitment of at least $1 million to fund this science, and the bottlenecks of regulation and clinician training.
  5. Ferriss closes with five practices he still uses: a weekly hip-hinge exercise, quarterly fasting with ketosis, morning meditation, group meals, and doing something for others, including loving-kindness meditation.

IDEAS WORTH REMEMBERING

5 ideas

Ferriss believes small, accidental events can be the difference between life and death.

He says a misaddressed library postcard led his mother to call him, and that call made him realize suicide would impose enormous pain on those who loved him.

Driven people often fear meditation will dull their edge.

Ferriss resisted meditation for over a year for this reason, then reframed it as putting a handle on a blade so the edge can be used skillfully instead of cutting the user.

How you treat yourself shapes how you treat others.

Attia says Paul Conti's point made him realize he wouldn't want his kids treated the way he treats himself, and Ferriss echoes this with the idea of applying the golden rule to yourself.

Psychedelics may work through ego dissolution and a felt, not just intellectual, experience.

Ferriss describes seeing your life as a play from the audience and links durable effects to mystical experiences, while noting that both psychedelics and meditation appear to decrease default mode network activity.

Setting and supervision matter greatly, and these compounds aren't a panacea.

Both stress contraindications and risks, with Ferriss describing a dangerous unsupervised experience and a harrowing ayahuasca night. Both say recreational MDMA at parties differs dramatically from supervised therapeutic use.

WORDS WORTH SAVING

5 quotes

To have deciphered how to achieve and yet not be able to appreciate is, that is just the tragedy of tragedies.

— Tim Ferriss

It's very hard for many people to talk their way out of something they didn't talk their way into.

— Tim Ferriss

You are not alone. This is exceptionally, exceptionally common, but it's the dirty little secret that so many people carry around and are unwilling to discuss.

— Tim Ferriss

The consistent program that you follow is better than the perfect program that you quit.

— Tim Ferriss

unhappiness is at the root of more pain, I would suspect, than any ailment that falls in the quote-unquote physical body.

— Peter Attia

Depression and suicide survival storySelf-talk and self-compassionPsychedelic experiences and ego dissolutionMeditation approaches and appsDefault mode network and mystical experienceMDMA, psilocybin, and ibogaine researchFunding science and regulatory barriers

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