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Brené Brown on courageous leadership | ReThinking with Adam Grant

Brené Brown is a researcher, storyteller, and author who hosts the podcast Dare to Lead and has given some of the most popular TED Talks of all time. Brené joins Adam live at Authors@Wharton to talk about her new book, Strong Ground. They discuss how to identify your core values, what courageous leadership looks like, and whether vulnerability has gained popularity. They also address the problems with “executive presence,” compare notes on how to have hard conversations and set boundaries, debate the merits of the “tush push,” and reflect on what Brené learned from working with FBI hostage negotiators. Follow Host: Adam Grant (Instagram: @adamgrant | LinkedIn: @adammgrant | Website: adamgrant.net/) Guest: Brené Brown (Instagram: @brenebrown | Website: https://brenebrown.com/) Links Strong Ground by Brené Brown List of all Brené Brown’s books: https://brenebrown.com/books-audio Subscribe to TED Instagram: @ted YouTube: @TED TikTok: @tedtoks LinkedIn: @ted-conferences Website: ted.com Podcasts: ted.com/podcasts The TED Audio Collective is a collection of podcasts for the curious. The TED Audio Collective videos may be used for non-commercial purposes under a Creative Commons License, Attribution–Non Commercial–No Derivatives (or the CC BY – NC – ND 4.0 International) and in accordance with our TED Talks Usage Policy (https://www.ted.com/about/our-organiz...). For more information on using TED for commercial purposes (e.g. employee learning, in a film or online course), please submit a Media Request at https://media-requests.ted.com.

Brené BrownguestAdam Granthost
Oct 3, 202540mWatch on YouTube ↗

At a glance

WHAT IT’S REALLY ABOUT

Courageous leadership through values, vulnerability, and clear, actionable behaviors daily

  1. Brown argues modern workplaces overvalue “being a knower” and need to reward curiosity, questions, and learning as a form of courage.
  2. She explains how grounded theory interviewing surfaces people’s real “main concerns,” and how leaders can use direct questions and reflective playback to reach truth quickly.
  3. They outline a practical approach to managing up and building alignment: clarify what “winning” means to your boss, play it back accurately, then ask for permission to lead your team your way.
  4. Brown reframes values as what you are willing to sacrifice for, pushes people to identify just two core values, and then operationalize them into observable behaviors and “indicator lights” for misalignment.
  5. They distinguish genuine vulnerability from performative “lip service,” emphasizing that fear-driven armor (perfectionism, micromanagement, overcontrol) may work briefly but erodes trust and sustainability.

IDEAS WORTH REMEMBERING

5 ideas

Treat curiosity as a core leadership competency.

Brown sees a cultural drift toward performing certainty; she argues organizations should prize leaders and candidates who ask “exquisite questions” and show hunger to solve problems.

Start with the other person’s real main concern, not the official narrative.

Using grounded-theory logic, Brown asks what keeps leaders up at 4 a.m. and builds change efforts around that lived concern, not just dashboards and investor calls.

Use “playback” to create clarity and connection fast.

Borrowing from hostage negotiation, accurately reflecting what you heard until you get “That’s right” establishes trust and prevents misalignment (especially when managing up).

Managing up works best when framed as winning together.

Ask what success looks like for your boss, play it back precisely, then request permission to lead your team in the way you believe drives trust and performance.

Values become real only when translated into behaviors.

Brown criticizes “poster values” and urges turning two core values into behavioral standards plus personal “indicator lights” (e.g., resentment as a sign she’s not setting boundaries courageously).

WORDS WORTH SAVING

5 quotes

I'm wondering why the value has shifted from courage as being a knower instead of courage as being a learner. That's not gonna serve us right now.

— Brené Brown

Look, what's more important to you, to protect your ego or to win? And if you wanna win, we're gonna have to have these hard conversations.

— Brené Brown

Playing not to lose- Is always losing.

— Brené Brown

We are neurobiologically hardwired to be seen and heard, and that "that's right" is really a big part of being able to play back.

— Brené Brown

I don't talk about people, I talk to people.

— Brené Brown

Courage as learning vs. knowingGrounded theory and “spill questions”Playback and the “That’s right” momentManaging up: defining success and asking to leadValues as sacrifice; choosing two core valuesOperationalizing values into behaviors and indicatorsVulnerability, fear armor, and trust

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