Why AI’s Next Breakthroughs Could Come from Outside the Big Labs

Erik Torenberg sits down with Box CEO Aaron Levie, and a16z’s Martin Casado, and Steven Sinofsky to debate how the AI industry should think about safety, security, and regulation as increasingly capable agents move into the real world. They argue that much of today’s conversation is happening before we have clearly defined the risks we’re trying to regulate. Drawing on earlier waves of computing, from computer viruses and the early internet to aviation and automobiles, they ask what AI can learn from industries that developed safety standards only after understanding how their technologies actually failed. The conversation then gets concrete: agents don’t get tired, can operate at enormous scale, and can probe systems in ways human employees never could. That could require rethinking permissions, authentication, operating systems, and the security stack itself. They also discuss why AI innovation may increasingly move beyond the frontier labs and into the software built around the models. Timestamps: 00:00 - Intro 00:50 - Pacing the Frontier: Reacting to the AI Safety Discourse 03:50 - Species Extinction Talk: Do Labs Actually Believe Their Own Rhetoric? 06:49 - The Nationalization Question & Whose Job Safety Really Is 11:32 - David Sacks vs Government: "You're Asking Us to Regulate What?" 12:08 - 2028 as the AI Election 28:39 - Why Cybersecurity Has Historically Rejected Practical Solutions 32:30 - The Craziest Covert Channel Ever Seen 48:38 - LLMs as Decision Engines vs Chatbots 53:01 - Why the Labs Haven't Built This: The Being vs Tool Mindset Resources: Follow Aaron Levie on X: https://x.com/levie Follow Martin Casado on X: https://x.com/martin_casado Follow Steven Sinofsky on X: https://x.com/stevesi Stay Updated: If you enjoyed this episode, be sure to like, subscribe, and share with your friends! Find a16z on X: https://twitter.com/a16z Find a16z on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/company/a16z Listen to the a16z Show on Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/5bC65RDvs3oxnLyqqvkUYX Listen to the a16z Show on Apple Podcasts: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/a16z-podcast/id842818711 Follow our host: https://x.com/eriktorenberg Please note that the content here is for informational purposes only; should NOT be taken as legal, business, tax, or investment advice or be used to evaluate any investment or security; and is not directed at any investors or potential investors in any a16z fund. a16z and its affiliates may maintain investments in the companies discussed. For more details please see http://a16z.com/disclosures.

Aaron LevieguestMartin CasadoguestSteven SinofskyguestErik Torenberghost

Sep 26, 202655mWatch on YouTube ↗

EPISODE INFO

Released: September 26, 2026
Duration: 55m
Channel: a16z
Watch on YouTube: ▶ Open ↗

EPISODE DESCRIPTION

Erik Torenberg sits down with Box CEO Aaron Levie, and a16z’s Martin Casado, and Steven Sinofsky to debate how the AI industry should think about safety, security, and regulation as increasingly capable agents move into the real world. They argue that much of today’s conversation is happening before we have clearly defined the risks we’re trying to regulate. Drawing on earlier waves of computing, from computer viruses and the early internet to aviation and automobiles, they ask what AI can learn from industries that developed safety standards only after understanding how their technologies actually failed. The conversation then gets concrete: agents don’t get tired, can operate at enormous scale, and can probe systems in ways human employees never could. That could require rethinking permissions, authentication, operating systems, and the security stack itself. They also discuss why AI innovation may increasingly move beyond the frontier labs and into the software built around the models. Timestamps: 00:00 - Intro 00:50 - Pacing the Frontier: Reacting to the AI Safety Discourse 03:50 - Species Extinction Talk: Do Labs Actually Believe Their Own Rhetoric? 06:49 - The Nationalization Question & Whose Job Safety Really Is 11:32 - David Sacks vs Government: "You're Asking Us to Regulate What?" 12:08 - 2028 as the AI Election 28:39 - Why Cybersecurity Has Historically Rejected Practical Solutions 32:30 - The Craziest Covert Channel Ever Seen 48:38 - LLMs as Decision Engines vs Chatbots 53:01 - Why the Labs Haven't Built This: The Being vs Tool Mindset Resources: Follow Aaron Levie on X: https://x.com/levie Follow Martin Casado on X: https://x.com/martin_casado Follow Steven Sinofsky on X: https://x.com/stevesi Stay Updated: If you enjoyed this episode, be sure to like, subscribe, and share with your friends! Find a16z on X: https://twitter.com/a16z Find a16z on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/company/a16z Listen to the a16z Show on Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/5bC65RDvs3oxnLyqqvkUYX Listen to the a16z Show on Apple Podcasts: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/a16z-podcast/id842818711 Follow our host: https://x.com/eriktorenberg Please note that the content here is for informational purposes only; should NOT be taken as legal, business, tax, or investment advice or be used to evaluate any investment or security; and is not directed at any investors or potential investors in any a16z fund. a16z and its affiliates may maintain investments in the companies discussed. For more details please see http://a16z.com/disclosures.

SPEAKERS

Aaron Levie
guest
CEO and cofounder of Box, focused on enterprise software and AI in the workplace.
Martin Casado
guest
General Partner at Andreessen Horowitz (a16z) and cofounder of Nicira, focused on enterprise infrastructure and security.
Steven Sinofsky
guest
Former President of the Windows Division at Microsoft and technology investor/operator.
Erik Torenberg
host
Podcast host at Andreessen Horowitz (a16z).

EPISODE SUMMARY

In this episode of a16z, featuring Aaron Levie and Martin Casado, Why AI’s Next Breakthroughs Could Come from Outside the Big Labs explores aI safety rhetoric, regulation risk, and innovation moving beyond frontier labs The speakers largely agree on the need for strong AI security and governance, but argue that “pacing” is a vague, disingenuous label that fails as either safety strategy or political messaging.

RELATED EPISODES