Jung Chang (Wild Swans author) — Living through history's largest man-made famine

A true honor to speak with Jung Chang. She is the author of Wild Swans: Three Daughters of China (sold 15+ million copies worldwide) and Mao: The Unknown Story. We discuss: * what it was like growing up during the Cultural Revolution as the daughter of a denounced official * why the CCP continues to worship the biggest mass murderer in human history. * how exactly Communist totalitarianism was able to subjugate a billion people * why Chinese leaders like Xi and Deng who suffered from the Cultural Revolution don't condemn Mao * how Mao starved and killed 40 million people during The Great Leap Forward in order to exchange food for Soviet weapons Wild Swans is the most moving book I've ever read. It was a real privilege to speak with its author. 𝐄𝐏𝐈𝐒𝐎𝐃𝐄 𝐋𝐈𝐍𝐊𝐒 * Transcript: https://www.dwarkeshpatel.com/p/jung-chang * Apple Podcasts: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/jung-chang-living-through-cultural-revolution-and/id1516093381?i=1000636931465 * Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/episode/4XJRFIvfRetdzq3pffmMUL?si=FGzMVzV1QfSbZl522jD5_g * Follow me on Twitter: https://twitter.com/dwarkesh_sp 𝐓𝐈𝐌𝐄𝐒𝐓𝐀𝐌𝐏𝐒 00:00:00 - Growing up during Cultural Revolution 00:15:58 - Could officials have overthrown Mao? 00:34:09 - Great Leap Forward 00:48:12 - Modern support of Mao 01:03:24 - Life as peasant 01:21:30 - Psychology of communist society