What Robert Caro learned about power after studying it for 50 years

𝐄𝐏𝐈𝐒𝐎𝐃𝐄 𝐋𝐈𝐍𝐊𝐒 * Transcript: https://www.dwarkesh.com/p/robert-caro * Apple Podcasts: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/robert-caro-the-master-biographer-reflects-at-91/id1516093381?i=1000798931746 * Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/episode/4qFEcgsHB5hAnRoGw0Ypiv 𝐒𝐏𝐎𝐍𝐒𝐎𝐑𝐒 * Antithesis lets you run thorough simulation tests on every PR your coding agents ship. That’s because Antithesis is FAST. On a recent project, it packed fifteen hours of simulation into each fifteen-minute run: every change could be tested in thousands of hostile worlds before being merged. Every minute your software spends in Antithesis is one of the unluckiest hours it will ever experience. Learn more at https://antithesis.com/dwarkesh * WorkOS’s Airlock is a judgment layer that sits between your agents and your most important tools. When an agent makes a request, Airlock evaluates it against your company’s policies and decides whether to allow it, block it, or escalate it to a human. If it allows it, Airlock takes action on behalf of the agent, which means your agents never see your API keys or other credentials. Airlock is in early access. If you’re interested, go to https://workos.com/airlock * Jane Street’s mystery ASIC puzzle is over, and they’ve published a blog post that reveals the chip’s purpose. You can read it here: https://blog.janestreet.com/asic-puzzle-results/. More importantly, there’s another challenge live now! For this one, you have to design a protocol-emulator ASIC that can be used to test chips outside of a live system. Jane Street will pay to fabricate their favorite submissions. The competition is open until January 18th. Get started at https://janestreet.com/dwarkesh To sponsor a future episode, visit https://dwarkesh.com/advertise. 𝐓𝐈𝐌𝐄𝐒𝐓𝐀𝐌𝐏𝐒 00:00:00 – How Caro gets people to talk 00:05:03 – Does America need a little more Moses today? 00:12:42 – Moses the young idealist 00:17:57 – Watching Moses lose power 00:24:01 – Did Moses realize he was changing? 00:27:53 – Building during the Great Depression 00:32:51 – The threats and promises of Lyndon Johnson 00:36:08 – Could Kennedy have passed Johnson’s laws? 00:41:00 – Getting a book down to one sentence 00:46:21 – All the material that never made it into the books 00:52:59 – Loneliness

Dwarkesh PatelhostRobert Caroguest

Oct 30, 20261h 1mWatch on YouTube ↗

EPISODE INFO

Released: October 30, 2026
Duration: 1h 1m
Channel: Dwarkesh Podcast
Watch on YouTube: ▶ Open ↗

EPISODE DESCRIPTION

𝐄𝐏𝐈𝐒𝐎𝐃𝐄 𝐋𝐈𝐍𝐊𝐒
Transcript: https://www.dwarkesh.com/p/robert-caro
Apple Podcasts: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/robert-caro-the-master-biographer-reflects-at-91/id1516093381?i=1000798931746
Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/episode/4qFEcgsHB5hAnRoGw0Ypiv
𝐒𝐏𝐎𝐍𝐒𝐎𝐑𝐒
• Antithesis lets you run thorough simulation tests on every PR your coding agents ship. That’s because Antithesis is FAST. On a recent project, it packed fifteen hours of simulation into each fifteen-minute run: every change could be tested in thousands of hostile worlds before being merged. Every minute your software spends in Antithesis is one of the unluckiest hours it will ever experience. Learn more at https://antithesis.com/dwarkesh
• WorkOS’s Airlock is a judgment layer that sits between your agents and your most important tools. When an agent makes a request, Airlock evaluates it against your company’s policies and decides whether to allow it, block it, or escalate it to a human. If it allows it, Airlock takes action on behalf of the agent, which means your agents never see your API keys or other credentials. Airlock is in early access. If you’re interested, go to https://workos.com/airlock
• Jane Street’s mystery ASIC puzzle is over, and they’ve published a blog post that reveals the chip’s purpose. You can read it here: https://blog.janestreet.com/asic-puzzle-results/. More importantly, there’s another challenge live now! For this one, you have to design a protocol-emulator ASIC that can be used to test chips outside of a live system. Jane Street will pay to fabricate their favorite submissions. The competition is open until January 18th. Get started at https://janestreet.com/dwarkesh To sponsor a future episode, visit https://dwarkesh.com/advertise. 𝐓𝐈𝐌𝐄𝐒𝐓𝐀𝐌𝐏𝐒 00:00:00 – How Caro gets people to talk 00:05:03 – Does America need a little more Moses today? 00:12:42 – Moses the young idealist 00:17:57 – Watching Moses lose power 00:24:01 – Did Moses realize he was changing? 00:27:53 – Building during the Great Depression 00:32:51 – The threats and promises of Lyndon Johnson 00:36:08 – Could Kennedy have passed Johnson’s laws? 00:41:00 – Getting a book down to one sentence 00:46:21 – All the material that never made it into the books 00:52:59 – Loneliness

SPEAKERS

Dwarkesh Patel
host
Host of the Dwarkesh Podcast who interviews researchers, writers, and public intellectuals.
Robert Caro
guest
Pulitzer Prize–winning biographer and journalist, author of The Power Broker and The Years of Lyndon Johnson.

EPISODE SUMMARY

In this episode of Dwarkesh Podcast, featuring Dwarkesh Patel and Robert Caro, What Robert Caro learned about power after studying it for 50 years explores robert Caro on power: building, persuasion, and ruthlessness over time Robert Caro describes how he gets reluctant sources to talk by relentlessly pursuing essential interviews and asking highly specific questions that force revealing answers.

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