Skip to content
Re:Thinking with Adam GrantRe:Thinking with Adam Grant

Jacob Collier on how music impacts us

@jacobcollier is a Grammy-winning musician, an exceptional teacher and communicator, and a rousing innovator onstage. Jacob joins Adam in front of a live audience at TED to give an interactive performance and share his perspective on audience participation, his insights on communication, and his unconventional approach to making music that defies genre. They also discuss Jacob’s strategy for dealing with hecklers, his “harmonically irresponsible” covers of popular songs, and the innate human desire to wiggle. Host & Guest Host: Adam Grant (Instagram: @adamgrant | LinkedIn: @adammgrant | Website: https://adamgrant.net/) Guest: Jacob Collier (Instagram: @jacobcollier | YouTube: @JacobCollier | Website: https://www.jacobcollier.com/) Join us in person at a TED conference: https://tedtalks.social/events Become a TED Member to support our mission: https://ted.com/membership Subscribe to a TED newsletter: https://ted.com/newsletters Follow TED! X: https://www.twitter.com/TEDTalks Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/ted Facebook: https://facebook.com/TED LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/company/ted-conferences TikTok: https://www.tiktok.com/@tedtoks Podcasts: https://www.ted.com/podcasts The TED Audio Collective is a collection of podcasts for the curious. The TED Audio Collective videos may be used for non-commercial purposes under a Creative Commons License, Attribution–Non Commercial–No Derivatives (or the CC BY – NC – ND 4.0 International) and in accordance with our TED Talks Usage Policy (https://www.ted.com/about/our-organiz...). For more information on using TED for commercial purposes (e.g. employee learning, in a film or online course), please submit a Media Request at https://media-requests.ted.com.

Jacob Collierguest
Nov 5, 20252mWatch on YouTube ↗

At a glance

WHAT IT’S REALLY ABOUT

Jacob Collier explains why tension and release make music moving

  1. Collier breaks down how augmented and diminished triads create distinct sensations of “expansion” and “shrinking” that listeners can feel immediately.
  2. He reframes dissonance as not “bad,” but as a controllable tool that can be profoundly beautiful and emotionally devastating.
  3. The core emotional engine of music, he argues, is the ongoing pattern of tension and release across a piece, shaped by harmony, rhythm, time, and repetition.
  4. Collier connects musical dynamics to everyday life, noting that similar patterns exist in speech, culture, and the observable world—helping explain music’s universal impact.

IDEAS WORTH REMEMBERING

5 ideas

Harmony can feel like physical expansion or contraction.

Collier illustrates augmented chords as “widening” and diminished chords as “shrinking,” showing how small interval changes produce immediate embodied reactions.

Dissonance isn’t inherently ugly; it’s a source of power.

What may initially sound “unfriendly” can become strikingly beautiful—even devastating—when placed intentionally and resolved with care.

Control of dissonance creates more meaningful musical storytelling.

Leaning into tension expands the emotional palette; relying only on consonant “pretty” sounds can flatten the narrative impact.

Tension and release are the main drivers of musical emotion.

Across a piece, shifting harmonies and patterns in rhythm, time, and repetition build expectations and then satisfy (or delay) them.

Music resonates because it mirrors patterns we already live with.

Collier points to similar dynamics in speech and culture, suggesting music moves us so strongly because it reflects familiar human and natural rhythms.

WORDS WORTH SAVING

5 quotes

If you control the dissonance, you have way more meaningful harmony than if you just play consonant stuff all the time.

Jacob Collier

Baked into music and the study of it is so many of the things that make us better people. But one of them is about not being afraid of dissonance.

Jacob Collier

And actually, in music, if we lean into the dissonance and learn to control it, we have this huge, broad palette that's so much more meaningful than if we just take the pretty intervals and whatever.

Jacob Collier

A lot of the reason why music moves us is because of all these little tensions and releases that we experience across the, the, the, the kind of path of a, of a musical piece.

Jacob Collier

So again, it's like no... It's, it's, it's no surprise that music has such an impact on us.

Jacob Collier

Augmented triads (stretching harmony)Diminished chords and “shrinking” soundIntervals and naming dissonance (e.g., diminished second)Consonance vs. dissonance as emotional toolsControlling dissonance for deeper harmonyTension-and-release across a musical journeyParallels between music, speech, culture, and nature

High quality AI-generated summary created from speaker-labeled transcript.

Get more out of YouTube videos.

High quality summaries for YouTube videos. Accurate transcripts to search & find moments. Powered by ChatGPT & Claude AI.