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Re:Thinking with Adam GrantJacinda Ardern on empathetic leadership | ReThinking with Adam Grant
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At a glance
WHAT IT’S REALLY ABOUT
Jacinda Ardern reframes empathetic leadership as strength under pressure
- Ardern argues that traits often seen as “un-leaderlike” (crying, worrying, hugging, self-doubt) can coexist with, and even strengthen, leadership.
- They distinguish debilitating impostor syndrome from a productive “confidence gap” that can motivate preparation, learning, and reliance on expert input.
- Ardern describes “confident humility” as a core crisis skill: be decisive while transparently acknowledging uncertainty and updating decisions as evidence changes.
- The conversation examines the emotional toll of empathetic leadership, separating compassion from “empathic distress,” and highlights how the ability to act can offset that burden.
- Ardern explains her decision to step down as a responsibility-driven choice to preserve effectiveness, reduce political temperature, and avoid becoming a symbolic trigger after COVID.
IDEAS WORTH REMEMBERING
5 ideasSelf-doubt can be fuel when it drives preparation, not paralysis.
Ardern frames her “confidence gap” as a double-edged trait: it can cause self-exclusion, but it can also push leaders to over-prepare, seek expertise, and make better-informed decisions.
Responsibility can override impostor feelings—sometimes for the better.
She became leader under sudden circumstances and describes duty as a force that “locked away” self-indulgent doubt and demanded outward confidence and action.
Empathy becomes draining mainly when you feel pain without agency.
Grant labels the real risk as empathic distress (hurting without being able to help), while Ardern notes that leadership proximity to grief is painful but also a privilege because it can enable concrete action.
Kindness is not just policy—it’s a governing style with tradeoffs.
Ardern tried to avoid personal attacks and stay “relentlessly positive” to reduce conflict fatigue, while also warning that too-harmonious teams can drift into consensus bias unless dissent is actively protected.
Crisis leadership requires ‘confident humility’: clarity plus uncertainty disclosure.
Ardern says people don’t expect omniscience; they distrust it. By sharing what leaders don’t know and taking the public on the “information journey,” leaders can build trust while still making timely, consequential calls.
WORDS WORTH SAVING
5 quotesI really wanted to speak to those who whisper behind a closed hand, I guess.
— Jacinda Ardern
We falsely make the assumption that if we're only going to build confidence in leaders, if we demonstrate absolute knowledge absolutely, but actually no human expects that.
— Jacinda Ardern
Regret has so much clarity. I regret X, Y, or Zed. Um, remorse is I have sadness for some of the outcomes, but please tell me what, what we should have done differently.
— Jacinda Ardern
Optimism is true moral courage.
— Jacinda Ardern
Because really early on I learned that thicker skin might mean losing my empathy. I'd rather have empathy because I think it's, you know, that, that's something as policy makers and decision makers makes us better at our job.
— Jacinda Ardern
SPEAKERS
Adam Grant
hostOrganizational psychologist and host of the TED podcast ReThinking.
Jacinda Ardern
guestFormer Prime Minister of New Zealand known for empathetic leadership during crises including Christchurch and COVID-19.
High quality AI-generated summary created from speaker-labeled transcript.
