Jacinda Ardern on empathetic leadership | ReThinking with Adam Grant

When Jacinda Ardern was thrown into the race for New Zealand’s prime ministry just months before the general election in 2017, she had no intention of even running for the position—but she knew it was her responsibility to become the leader her country needed. In this episode, Adam and Jacinda reflect on strategies for closing confidence gaps, discuss the importance of compassion in leadership, and break down a phenomenon that New Zealanders call “tall poppy syndrome.” They also look back on Jacinda’s most pivotal decisions, from steering the country through the COVID pandemic to stepping down as Prime Minister. Follow Host: Adam Grant (Instagram: @adamgrant | LinkedIn: @adammgrant | Website: adamgrant.net/) Guest: Jacinda Ardern (Instagram: @jacindaardern) A Different Kind of Power by Jacinda Ardern Subscribe to TED Instagram: @ted YouTube: @TED TikTok: @tedtoks LinkedIn: @ted-conferences Website: ted.com Podcasts: ted.com/podcasts The TED Audio Collective is a collection of podcasts for the curious. The TED Audio Collective videos may be used for non-commercial purposes under a Creative Commons License, Attribution–Non Commercial–No Derivatives (or the CC BY – NC – ND 4.0 International) and in accordance with our TED Talks Usage Policy (https://www.ted.com/about/our-organiz...). For more information on using TED for commercial purposes (e.g. employee learning, in a film or online course), please submit a Media Request at https://media-requests.ted.com. 00:00 Intro 01:08 Criers, huggers and worriers 03:06 Impostor syndrome 04:19 Jacinda's path to leadership 09:26 The pitfalls of responsibility and empathy 13:21 Leading with kindness 17:29 Parenting and leadership 19:21 Leading through COVID 28:33 Tall poppy syndrome 29:48 Stepping down 32:33 Lightning round 34:40 Driving positive change through optimism

Adam GranthostJacinda Ardernguest

Jul 4, 202538mWatch on YouTube ↗

EPISODE INFO

Released: July 4, 2025
Duration: 38m
Channel: Re:Thinking with Adam Grant
Watch on YouTube: ▶ Open ↗

EPISODE DESCRIPTION

When Jacinda Ardern was thrown into the race for New Zealand’s prime ministry just months before the general election in 2017, she had no intention of even running for the position—but she knew it was her responsibility to become the leader her country needed. In this episode, Adam and Jacinda reflect on strategies for closing confidence gaps, discuss the importance of compassion in leadership, and break down a phenomenon that New Zealanders call “tall poppy syndrome.” They also look back on Jacinda’s most pivotal decisions, from steering the country through the COVID pandemic to stepping down as Prime Minister. Follow Host: Adam Grant (Instagram: @adamgrant | LinkedIn: @adammgrant | Website: adamgrant.net/) Guest: Jacinda Ardern (Instagram: @jacindaardern) A Different Kind of Power by Jacinda Ardern Subscribe to TED Instagram: @ted YouTube: @TED TikTok: @tedtoks LinkedIn: @ted-conferences Website: ted.com Podcasts: ted.com/podcasts The TED Audio Collective is a collection of podcasts for the curious. The TED Audio Collective videos may be used for non-commercial purposes under a Creative Commons License, Attribution–Non Commercial–No Derivatives (or the CC BY – NC – ND 4.0 International) and in accordance with our TED Talks Usage Policy (https://www.ted.com/about/our-organiz...). For more information on using TED for commercial purposes (e.g. employee learning, in a film or online course), please submit a Media Request at https://media-requests.ted.com. 00:00 Intro 01:08 Criers, huggers and worriers 03:06 Impostor syndrome 04:19 Jacinda's path to leadership 09:26 The pitfalls of responsibility and empathy 13:21 Leading with kindness 17:29 Parenting and leadership 19:21 Leading through COVID 28:33 Tall poppy syndrome 29:48 Stepping down 32:33 Lightning round 34:40 Driving positive change through optimism

SPEAKERS

Adam Grant
host
Organizational psychologist and host of the TED podcast ReThinking.
Jacinda Ardern
guest
Former Prime Minister of New Zealand known for empathetic leadership during crises including Christchurch and COVID-19.

EPISODE SUMMARY

In this episode of Re:Thinking with Adam Grant, featuring Adam Grant and Jacinda Ardern, Jacinda Ardern on empathetic leadership | ReThinking with Adam Grant explores jacinda Ardern reframes empathetic leadership as strength under pressure Ardern argues that traits often seen as “un-leaderlike” (crying, worrying, hugging, self-doubt) can coexist with, and even strengthen, leadership.

RELATED EPISODES